Child arrangement order what do I do now?

[Rosielax]

My child’s father has applied for a court order due to my severe mental health issues that have been untreated due to negligence by the nhs and alcoholism (please note this rarely involved my daughter and I am very ashamed and have been getting help with this). Last week I tried to take my life. I have agreed that she’s best off in someone else’s care right now so I can get better.

I’m told by child’s father if I agree however it won’t go to court. But I’m wondering if there’ll be a chance for me to speak before judges decision. There are domestic abuse factors at play from my parents which I have proof of and who helped with my child and from him in our relationship which I have no proof of.

If there isn’t unless I do go to court, how soon do I have to make a decision for it to go to court so custody isn’t permanent? I’m told that he will already get custody and it will be permanent I am also told if I go to court my daughter will get talked to and interviewed which I don’t want. I’ve never been able to explain my side.

I’m just not sure what to do. I don’t want custody to be permanent but sw is saying it’s what’s best for my daughter and her dad also. But I am a good mum without being manipulated or suffering… me and my baby are so close. I’m so lost and can’t stop crying…and I’m fighting to get the help I need (mh services have failed me enormously!!!’) I’ve applied for a mental health advocate, cgl on top of aa, I’m also applying for an adult social worker and I should start therapy next week both with where I’ve been on a waiting list for a year, and with an emergency home treatment team

Or is it just a case of handing custody over now and then appealing it once I’m feeling better? But then again I don’t want my daughter to get settled and uproot her again

Thankyou

OP, maybe you need to be talking to your sw about contact/visitation, rather than custody/shared residency. You want regularly scheduled times where you will see your daughter officialised. If the court is worried that you are not in a fit state of mind/health to have unsupervised contact then this may need to be supervised, but the goal is usually to work towards unsupervised contact once you have shown you can be responsible for your daughter during supervised visits. Once you have regular unsupervised contact happening then you will be in a stronger position to ask for that percentage of contact to increase.

Hi,
we have agreed to contact every other weekend supervised with social and her father but my mental state is now improving and I am thinking rationally
my social worker isn’t very empathetic and often gives her own judgement and does not accept or see my side
When I can prove myself contact can be supervised however I am worried if I don’t fight now it will be permanent
I want chance to state how irregular my child’s father has been in her life, how much I have been manipulated by certain people and how I have been let down by mental health services. I’d also like the chance to state proof I’m getting better and offer myself for alcohol testing

im just worried if I don’t contest now this will be permanent or it will take too long and my daughter will be settled in which I wouldn’t uproot her. It’s been me and her for 8 years her dad has only been involved every other weekend since she was 5. I have no emotional support and feel I’m falling apart really. I only have my crisis appointment on Monday almost two weeks since my suicide attempt

I think this is very good advice, one thing that's troubling me is that you've said
If there isn’t unless I do go to court, how soon do I have to make a decision for it to go to court so custody isn’t permanent? I’m told that he will already get custody and it will be permanent I am also told if I go to court my daughter will get talked to and interviewed which I don’t want. I’ve never been able to explain my side.

Why don't you want your daughter to get talked to? Is she going to say something you don't want heard? It's not about 'your side' being heard but your daughters needs being met.

Can you look after your daughter currently? If not, then she needs to be with someone who can whilst you recover and access the help you need. If you accept you can't currently care for her and her father can then why would you contest it? If you think you can look after her currently then don't agree with the social worker and let the court decide who she lives with.

If you agree an order that says she lives with him then it's permanent.

You could apply a few years later to vary the order but if daughter has been settled with dad and no issues they will not vary it.

If you don't agree then the court will assess all the circumstances and decide what is safe for your daughter. Ultimately they want to k ow what help you are getting and whether your daughter is safe in your care.

No not at all, it’s about her getting upset and going through it

Thankyou so do I have to go to court if I don’t agree?

I have a lot of concerns about him being the permanent primary carer and want to make sure my voice is heard with these concerns and that they’re addressed and dealt with

What are the concerns you have re him?
I'm assuming his concerns are as per your op?
My child’s father has applied for a court order due to my severe mental health issues that have been untreated due to negligence by the nhs and alcoholism (please note this rarely involved my daughter and I am very ashamed and have been getting help with this). Last week I tried to take my life. I have agreed that she’s best off in someone else’s care right now so I can get better.
Was your daughter at risk at any of the times you mentioned above? Where was she when you tried to take your life?
I hope that you are getting the support you're looking for from your mh advocate and things end in a positive outcome for everyone. Do you have an addictions worker too now as they can be very helpful with things.

You seem to be blaming everyone else I think services and other people will want to see you taking personal responsibility.

You also write a lot about what you want and not what’s best for your daughter.

Potentially if you contest this you will be showing a lack of self awareness. I have a family member who’s a social worker and she said the bravest woman she ever saw gave up her child as she knew she couldn’t look after her properly. That’s pure love.

You should contest this at a later point when you are well again.

I am thinking of my daughter which is why I’ve agreed not to go to court right now and let her stay with her father

but I have concerns about him coping with her permanently and down the line when I’m back to myself i know she will be better with me

i am taking responsibility, I really am. however I have reached out for help a lot of times and fought tooth and nail to keep myself sane and sober (I am sober and have been a while) which is why now I’ve taken matters into my own hands my priority now is getting better but I’m scared about if I don’t do something now to contest my concerns it will be too late

if my daughter is happy with her father looked after properly and loved I will let it go no matter how hard it is. I’m just asking for advice

the last thing I want is to uproot her when she is settled but it has been me and her for 8 years and her dad has only recently come back into her life. I am worried about how she will cope with everything and concerned about him as her role model especially if he breaks up with his partner. I don’t mean to sound like I’m just thinking about myself so maybe I worded it wrong, I’m honestly not but I’m obviously very very upset and there are already issues with communication. I am not fit to be her carer right now but I know I will get better and that is my focus. I just don’t know what is going on and I need to before I can focus on myself fully

Hi no she wasn’t at risk or in attendence

he was out of her life for the first five years and has her every other weekend. He doesn’t say what time he is picking her up or dropping off or let me communicate. He also had anger issues in the relationship and talks to me awfully. I am aware this is with me not my child but I can’t help but be scared. He’s also let her down a lot, false promises etc

I know she needs stability and to be with him right now but I’m worried how he will cope with her long term. I really really am. I’m worried sick. When he breaks up with a partner he stops seeing her and my worry is this will happen if him and his partner break up. She has never been his priority; he prioritises nights out and holidays over her and threatened to stop seeing her if I went to the csa. I’m also heartbroken without her and I know this isn’t about me but I can’t bear how she might be feeling thankfully she seems happy right now but I am terrified.

Have a look online and see if there is any kind of advocacy services around your area who can help you navigate all this and help you to communicate with social workers etc.

I mean this with kindness but you say your MH is improving but you tried to end your life only a week ago. Maybe start with contact and see how you go. I've worked with children in homes where mum had sufficient MH difficulties and dad wasn't around, the trauma experienced by the child is long lasting even if they don't witness the specific events.
Unless you have concerns about his direct treatment of her I think you need to accept the SW decision and focus on being well and consistent for your child when you have contact.

My mental health definitrly isn’t improving and that’s what I’m trying to focus on… but it’s hard. So so hard. And I’m so worried about her. I know this is for the best but when I’m happy healthy mummy I really am the best parent. I just wish I could get back to that

Have applied for advocacy right now I’m not fit to fight or make decisions really I’m going out of my mind as I can’t understand or make sense of what’s happened or is happening..

Can you get legal advice from a solicitor? Maybe a session to go through your case and give you options and explain the legal implications of the different options. We're not qualified to advise you but a solicitor will be able to help you more.

I feel for you I have had similar issues in the past and my ex tried to weaponise them of course but now I have 50/50 shared care. There will be a lot you can do over the next couple of years to prove you are in a good place and a good mum.

I don't suspect you won't be uprooting her in a couple of years I would imagine you will hopefully be moving towards some kind of shared care arrangement when you are well. Whilst there used to be a presumption that the best place for a child is with their mum that isn't the case anymore. Both parents are capable are looking after children.

I wish you all the best, must be heartbreaking for you.

Thanks all for advice
its just confusing father is saying it won’t go to court but sw said it will. Sw said it’s custody till she’s 18 internet says until 16. Does anyone know if it will go to court?

My mindset has changed now. I viewed her school yesterday and it was lovely and she is happy and excited. Thinking about the future is making me too poorly and sick so I’m focusing on me now knowing she is loved and happy. I’ll agree to any terms set for now and contest in future if I am well enough and my baby WANTS to come home. My priority now is getting well and sorting my financial situation out in the hope of getting unsupervised visits and being the mummy she deserves and being the me again I feserve

it just is very tricky. Contact will be every other weekend unsupervised at my parents. Due to my health and her dad not being around a lot of her life my parents have helped out however they have helped out ‘too much’. Even when I am well they have took over all of her homework, all decisions around her, asking her if she wants to sleep over multiple times a week, what she wears etc and I’ve been too unwell/scared to protest and let’s be honest as a single parent it’s easy to let others take over time to time, they are now making things very difficult. Getting it into my head we have lost her and it’s my fault and my mum breaking down at school gates, gossiping and spreading what she wants those to hear my family has disowned me I understand I do but I’ve lost my daughter and they’re acting as though they’ve lost a child. Her behaviour started to get worse also due to lack of stability and no boundaries at their house despite my complaints.

dad is now recognising this and trying to wean parents into behaving more like grandparents but they don’t understand this and what is happening. They won’t let me sleep over with my daughter and tried to stop me from viewing the school. They also rang dad yesterday asking to take her on holiday next year with just them two (without my knowledge) and when they were told no got my child to ring and ask. Now dad is reconsidering letting child stop with my parents and afraid contact centre or just a few hours every other weekend will happen. Just ranting any advice on this is appreciated as I am grieving being my daughters primary care trying to stay sober and get myself better and I do not need this right now they are not thinking of my child but their needs and believe me, I want to go to court and protest but that wouldn’t be in her best interests and it is a toxic environment she does not need

Hello all.
I have lost primary custody of my daughter to her father and I’m allowed to have supervised contact at my parents with her every other weekend until I’m well enough to have her unsupervised. I can contest this however it’s best for my child at this time and I would not win.

here’s where the tricky part comes in my parents are making things very difficult and not happy about me being around them and are the ones grieving and slating me to everyone who hears and saying I don’t care/am turning on waterworks. Believe me I am absolutely broken but this is what’s best for her right now and I have to accept that and also what’s best for her is being around her mum on her weekends at home. I am not a threat to her, however I am obviously unwell and currently unable to control low moods and do not want my daughter to see that. after trying to take my own life last week, I need to get better and things to change but me and my daughter still need time together and a relationship. But all along parents have been trying to prevent that, haven’t been willing to help and have been trying to get custody of her themselves.

it just is very tricky. Contact will be every other weekend unsupervised at my parents. Due to my health, having her at a young age and her dad not being around a lot of her life my parents have helped out however they have helped out ‘too much’. Even when I am well they have took over all of her homework, all decisions around her, asking her if she wants to sleep over multiple times a week, what she wears etc and I’ve been too unwell/scared to protest and let’s be honest as a single parent it’s easy to let others take over time to time, they are now making things very difficult. Getting it into my head we have lost her and it’s my fault and my mum breaking down at school gates, gossiping and spreading what she wants those to hear my whole family apart from my birth dad have disowned me I understand it’s painful for them I really do but I’ve lost my daughter and they’re acting as though they’ve lost their child and are still prioritising their time with her over mine. Her behaviour started to get worse also due to lack of stability and no boundaries at their house despite my complaints.

I have seen text messages also of my mother stating she is trying to get custody and saying my child doesn’t want to be and wanted to stay with grandma which was not true (child was overjoyed when she had the green light to come home from ss after previous hospital visit). God knows what they say to my child behind my back. For example child knows mummy also has a drink problem thanks to my parents and knows mummy was in hospital trying to hurt herself. What 8 year old should know that? She was not in the house at the time

dad is now recognising this and trying to wean parents into behaving more like grandparents but they don’t understand this and what is happening. They won’t let me sleep over with my daughter and tried to stop me from viewing the school telling me infront of her I was not welcome. They also rang dad yesterday asking to take her on holiday next year with just them two (without my knowledge. This isn’t the first time they’ve done this however with what has happened for them to do this is ludicrous in my opinion) and when they were told no got my child to ring and ask. Now dad is reconsidering letting child stop with my parents and afraid contact centre or just a few hours every other weekend will happen. Just ranting any advice on this is appreciated as I am grieving being my daughters primary care trying to stay sober and get myself better and I do not need this right now they are not thinking of my child but their needs and believe me, I want to go to court and protest but that wouldn’t be in her best interests and it is a toxic environment she does not need

i understand completely it’s painful as they are very attatched and have had a key feature in my child’s life but how do I get them to think rationally, prioritise and help me and my child maintain a relationship and more importantly offer us support and maintain a healthy relationship with each other infront or her? There has also been comments made to me infront of my child by them many times however it has got worse in the past week… although social worker has spoke to my mum and put a stop to this

this is hard for everyone but we need to work together FOR the child. Whilst I am trying to get better this is also very bad on my mental health (although I have said they can abuse me as much as they like by text which they have been, and to my face as long as my daughter has no knowledge of it and sees healthy happy relationships)

me and dad are wanting to get together sit down with them and talk it all out but I know it will end up in a row with parents blaming him and him blaming them etc. both sides are quite narcissistic and don’t realise they’re at fault (not saying everyone doesn’t from time to time me included but I can own up to my wrongs and think about how to move forward!)

thankyou

When you say ´unsupervised contact at your parents place’ do you mean that your parents are supervising rather than a social worker or contact centre employee, or do you mean that you are allowed unsupervised contact with your daughter every weekend, with the understanding you and your daughter will be staying with your parents? If that’s the case, start making it a normal every visit thing that you and her go out alone together for an hour or two. You could have a coffee/hot chocolate/ice cream together, or just go for a walk or for a swim. You could even just go and do errands together - perhaps do a supermarket shop. It doesn’t matter what, it just establishes you and her spending time together just the two of you.
If you need one of your parents present to supervise at all times then shelve this plan til unsupervised contact with just you is okayed.
Don’t sit down with your ex and your parents if that’s just going to start a row. It sounds like they listen to your social worker? Get her/him to to help you discuss with your parents what visits need to look like for the next little while - you’re aiming for normal life where your daughter just slots in. So no discussion of how much you miss her and who’s fault it is that she now lives with her dad. None of that within earshot of your daughter. Just ´oh DD, I’m so happy to see you! How was your week?´. Plan nice things to do every weekend that are affordable for you, but always leave time for the boring everyweekend that needs to happen for her to have a good week at school afterwards - don’t be tempted to let her stay up extra late on the Sunday so you can spend more time with her for example.

me and dad are wanting to get together sit down with them and talk it all out but I know it will end up in a row with parents blaming him and him blaming them etc. both sides are quite narcissistic and don’t realise they’re at fault (not saying everyone doesn’t from time to time me included but I can own up to my wrongs and think about how to move forward!)

What are your parents and the df blaming each other for? Apologies but from your posts it seems issues are related to your alcohol xs and MH issues, why are they blaming each other for this, or is it that they are blaming each other for not stepping up sooner.

Parents blame dd dad for not being involved and helping more dd dad claims that my parents never let him near her and that’s why he isn’t involved to me that’s irrelevant who did what etc right now

Sorry for late reply my heads obv a mess

it is supervised at my parents sorry so they have to be there and I won’t be able to take her out without them. I have asked him to discuss visits with my parents and how they look which he was going to do however he has now turned on me as I said when I’m better unless daughter is reluctant and settled I will be trying to bring her home. Parents also aren’t letting me stop over with daughter before she goes which is absolutely breaking me. I’m definitely saving up for weekends with her and there is no hostility on my side or talk about how much I’m hurting trying to keep things as normal as I can for her. However I have told her how much I love her and told her I’ll miss her as suggested by another social worker so she knows I’ll care.

To go back to the practicalities of the court process.
If he's made an application to court then it will go to court unless he withdraws.
Sometimes in situations like this, social services will recommend applying for a CAO to secure safe and permanent care for the child. If dad didn't, they may have to consider court proceedings and placing your child in care.
If dad is safe and can care for her, this is the better option.

You need to get a solicitor and an advocate.
Your daughter will have a court guardian who will prepare a report and yes they will talk to your daughter. Some are better than others but they will be trained in how to talk to children and it won't be a scary experience for her. She is clearly used to social services contact anyway.

Your child's social worker will be asked to contribute to that report.

If dad gets a CAO ordering that she live with him, you can apply to go back and vary that in the future.

I can understand how painful this is for you and I'm not trying to make you feel worse but it's really important that you understand why this is happening. You said someone told your daughter about your alcohol dependence but believe me, she already knows.

Being the child of a parent with addiction and mental health issues is a scary place to be because your world doesn't feel safe and secure so right now she needs stability which hopefully dad will provide.

When you are feeling stronger, your involvement can increase.
If your relationship with your parents is so difficult then I don't think contact at their house is the healthy and child centered option tbh. Is there anyone else?

Thanks so much for the info

i now completely understand why this is happening and it is best for her however I’m determined I can get better as painful as this is I can now focus on myself. I did try to reach out for help a lot of times and have that evidence only to be let down by many services. I was also doing well until Tuesdays breakdown child wasn’t in the house thankfully. When my mental health is bad I’m extremely impulsive. I wish I knew before about adult sw/advocate

my birth dad is going to step in to help with contact when he can however he does work a lot