Grandparents rights and contact (currently NC)

[NoContactThankYou]

Name changed for privacy.

I'm wondering if anyone could offer any advice please.

I went NC with my mother in December 2017 following years of emotional abuse that all came to a head between November and December 2017.

Since then she has had no contact with my children (born 2011 and 2013). This is despite repeated efforts on her part including texts, emails and cards. On one occasion she had her partner knock our door with flowers and gifts whilst she waited in the car and more recently (July 2021) knocked on our door herself. Both times they were sent away and DC had no idea what had happened.

My brother rang me today to tell me that she was now going down the legal route. First with mediation and if we refuse that, she will take us to court. He passed on that should I allow her contact with my children, she will cease legal action.

I am well aware that she is trying to scare me into complying with her. I am standing my ground and won't be blackmailed. There will be no mediation and we are content to fight this all the way.

She's basing her right to access on Grandparents Rights and I'm fairly sure she doesn't have a case. She is effectively a stranger to my children, having not seen or spoken to them for four years, though they know of her through photographs and general stories. DC1 remembers her more so than DC2. She lives over 100 miles away and prior to NC saw them 2-3 times a year, perhaps up to 4 times if she popped in for lunch as she was passing to visit other family. We have never lived locally to her and she has never had them alone for more than a couple of hours at a time and those instances probably number less than five.

I have written evidence of her emotional abuse spanning from that period in November/December 2017 up to July 2020 via her emails and text messages. I could also provide oral evidence of emotional abuse and neglect from my own childhood, including allowing me to be physically abused by someone else and how I requested to be put into foster care as a result (and was).

I have no concerns about physical safeguarding if my children were to have contact, but both DH and I have huge concerns about emotional abuse based on previous patterns.

But still, I worry. What if they grant her contact? I don't know about the legal side of things so I am hoping that someone wise may be here to help.

Thank you.

My mother has done the same to me, when I finally decided enough was enough a couple of years ago. She started a campaign of abuse which included trying to get me fired, then said I was dead to her and she was only interested in "her" grandchildren.

There is a checklist that shows up on the first page of Google search for 'grandparents rights UK', and she followed it pretty closely for a while. I assume a solicitor advised her there wasn't enough proof for court action, because she then changed tactics and got in contact with my dc via their father (DV abuser).

We receive letters and cards from time to time, and I assume at some point in the future the ex will meet up with my mother and the children, but I have resigned myself to that. If she is willing to cooperate with the man who beat her daughter, then her priorities are so clearly fucked there's no hope.

My only solace is that she barely made an effort when she was invited and welcome into my life, so now she probably won't try too hard. Merely lament about the injustice of it all, etc.

I, on the other hand, have learned that blood relations make no difference over my decision to keep someone in my life or not. I'll simply not be trodden on.

Stream of consciousness vent there!

If your dm had previously had a meaningful relationship with your dc she may have had a case. Unsupervised visits and overnights could be seen as her being an important figure in their lives. A woman they have never met has zero chance and a solicitor will tell her that in her first visit. I am nc with my dm. Over 20 years. She had seen dc tho not alone or overnight.. She tried to contact dd via a friend's address manipulating her. I left a vm telling her to cease contact or I would seek legal advice.. Never heard from her again.
GPS have no rights. Unless a longterm relationship is showing a positive in dc's lives which would affect them is stopped..
Recite to db to get lost and keep dm away!

@TellMeItsPossible

My mother has done the same to me, when I finally decided enough was enough a couple of years ago. She started a campaign of abuse which included trying to get me fired, then said I was dead to her and she was only interested in "her" grandchildren.

There is a checklist that shows up on the first page of Google search for 'grandparents rights UK', and she followed it pretty closely for a while. I assume a solicitor advised her there wasn't enough proof for court action, because she then changed tactics and got in contact with my dc via their father (DV abuser).

We receive letters and cards from time to time, and I assume at some point in the future the ex will meet up with my mother and the children, but I have resigned myself to that. If she is willing to cooperate with the man who beat her daughter, then her priorities are so clearly fucked there's no hope.

My only solace is that she barely made an effort when she was invited and welcome into my life, so now she probably won't try too hard. Merely lament about the injustice of it all, etc.

I, on the other hand, have learned that blood relations make no difference over my decision to keep someone in my life or not. I'll simply not be trodden on.

I'm so sorry to hear that you've been through this too.

@tizerorfizz the op literally ended up in foster care because of her mpthers abuse so professionals clearly believed her, so its particularly impressive that you can work out its all just over a disagreement social services should be queuing up to hire you....

I very much doubt she would get anywhere in this country and with this background. The fact she thinks she will, says a lot about her

I’m someone else who is confused by boundaries and protecting your children, allegedly being using them as weapons

Op, im so sorry you are having to go through this, however I would imagine her solicitor will be duty bound to inform her that she is unlikely to be successful so hopefully this will all be over quickly for you

My in laws did this to us. It went all the way to court, took a year of stress before we received a judgement. Thankfully they were told to bugger off.

We decided to go to mediation, even though we had no intention of agreeing to access. In the end that worked in our favour, the judge noted that the fact mediation was attempted but failed was an indication of how hopeless the idea of a relationship was.

There is also a chance, by attending mediation, that your mother may be talked out of pursuing it any further. The mediator will have a sense of what the law is and that the court will give a huge amount of weight to the parents opinion about their children. She or he may break it down for your mother in a way that dissuades her from going further. She may also feel that she 'had her day' and get it out of her system through mediation.

It is expensive to bring the kind of application your mother is threatening. Can she afford to do it? Mediation is practically free by comparison- anyone can threaten that.

And please ignore @TizerorFizz. What thoughtless and unhelpful commentary from someone who clearly has no idea.

She has no rights. She is bluffing. Ignore.

@NoContactThankYou

Definitely not a troll. I've posted on the Stately Homes threads about her in the past, though under a different name. Happy for Admin to check my posting history.

I'm sorry to say that this whole sad story is mine alone, though I wish it wasn't.

Unless you know the OP personally, then you don't know. Here we take what they say as right (troll aside)

I dont think you are a troll

There was a long thread about this recently.

The summary was

• yes grandparents can apply for contact
• they usually need to prove a close and ongoing relationship for the court to grant them contact
• there were examples on both sides, both people who knew Grandparents who had tried and failed, and people who had applied and court had granted access.

It seems to vary according to the judge and the family court can be unpredictable.

That is the summary of the thread. The conclusion from all was that you need legal advice.

Just to clear it up, as there's been some confusion on this thread- your mother has standing to bring an application before the court. That's her legal right.

That legal application can result in a court order for access, but it is very unlikely, especially given the circumstances you've described.

If she brings an application, you can apply for it to be dismissed - but you'd go before a court to do that.

@Ivyonafence

What happens in mediation?

@steppemum

There was a long thread about this recently.

The summary was

• yes grandparents can apply for contact
• they usually need to prove a close and ongoing relationship for the court to grant them contact
• there were examples on both sides, both people who knew Grandparents who had tried and failed, and people who had applied and court had granted access.

It seems to vary according to the judge and the family court can be unpredictable.

That is the summary of the thread. The conclusion from all was that you need legal advice.

Thank you.

Also- yes it is true that the family court has wide powers and in theory anything can happen.

But- the family court is fundamentally guided by the principle of 'the best interest of the child'. There is a lot of case law and legislation making it clear that in most cases the parents know best and should be left alone to parent. The onus is on the party bringing the application to prove that your decision isn't in your child's best interest. That's a hard thing to prove in any circumstances, let alone when they haven't seen the children themselves in 5 years, let alone when there is evidence of abuse in the family, and let alone when the applicant's own daughter entered foster care.

Family court judges are not in the habit of interfering with functional parents. They see a lot of s*^%. They're not going to take kindly to their time being taken up by this woman abusing the legal system to get at her adult daughter.

If your mother genuinely wanted to know your children she would have sent you flowers and a letter saying she's been in counseling, she wants to apologise to you, when you're ready would you be willing to attend family counselling together. She would go about it in a sensible and respectful way, not threatening you and demanding her way.

I know it's scary but try to have faith in the legal system.

Have just spoken to brother. He told her after our phone call yesterday what my response was and asked that no further messages go through him. As suspecter, he sees it as giving me a heads up.

I've told him in no uncertain terms not to pass another thing on from her and tht by doing so he was allowing her to put him in the middle.

Like a PP, he has maintained a relationship with her and my nephew has lots of contact including full weekend stays. I think he's crackers to allow it personally, but also acknowledge that the majority of abuse through our childhoods was directed at me, not him, so it's a different dynamic. Typical Black Sheep and Golden Child scenario.

In our case we each had a preliminary meeting with the mediator. They met with her alone one week and then a couple of weeks later we met with her.

If you explain there has been abuse it is likely you won't need to meet her face to face. Many mediations occur with the parties in separate room and the mediator running back and forth. You should get advice specific to your circumstances on this point though.

Our mediation failed based on the initial meetings. My in laws basically insisted on shared parental rights (every other weekend, every special occasion, access to medical information, it went on and on).

My children have two functional parents. My in laws had never been trusted to be alone with our children. It was bizarre.

We told the mediator we would never agree to anything like that. She said based on her prior meeting with my in laws that they would never agree to less. She gave us evidence that mediation had failed and wished us all the best.

It wasn't so painful. I think you should get legal advice. My initial instinct was the same as yours, I didn't want mediation but my lawyer talked us into it and I think they were right.

It made it clear we were reasonable people. We really tried everything with my in laws but they were bullies with grandiose notions about their entitlements.

@Ivyonafence

In our case we each had a preliminary meeting with the mediator. They met with her alone one week and then a couple of weeks later we met with her.

If you explain there has been abuse it is likely you won't need to meet her face to face. Many mediations occur with the parties in separate room and the mediator running back and forth. You should get advice specific to your circumstances on this point though.

Our mediation failed based on the initial meetings. My in laws basically insisted on shared parental rights (every other weekend, every special occasion, access to medical information, it went on and on).

My children have two functional parents. My in laws had never been trusted to be alone with our children. It was bizarre.

We told the mediator we would never agree to anything like that. She said based on her prior meeting with my in laws that they would never agree to less. She gave us evidence that mediation had failed and wished us all the best.

It wasn't so painful. I think you should get legal advice. My initial instinct was the same as yours, I didn't want mediation but my lawyer talked us into it and I think they were right.

It made it clear we were reasonable people. We really tried everything with my in laws but they were bullies with grandiose notions about their entitlements.

Wow! The gall of wanting shared parental rights. How delusional are they?

It's good to know that we wouldn't need to be in the same room. I have no desire to be anywhere near her.

She's a master manipulator and I can only hope that the courts see through it. But I do have written evidence to back up my reasons as she was daft enough to put it all in writing.

Mediation will be on your own first, maybe the children, your mum alone then together. She has the right to do this but legally grandparent rights are a myth. I've been in a similar position with my ex mother in law. She got to court but was only granted supervised access if the children wanted it. She refused as she felt it was her right to see them alone. She died last year after not seeing them for 17 years.

[quote Toomanyradishes]@tizerorfizz the op literally ended up in foster care because of her mpthers abuse so professionals clearly believed her, so its particularly impressive that you can work out its all just over a disagreement social services should be queuing up to hire you....[/quote]
Exactly

@NoContactThankYou my lawyer told me something that I think is true for you- the fact that she is bringing a court application in these circumstances is in itself proof of why she shouldn't be granted anything. I was so stressed trying to sort out evidence and my lawyer just said 'they are the evidence. The fact we're here at all is the evidence. They will make the case for you' and they did.

Also I saw below you don't trust the court because your mother was able to get her own way before. I think you need to remind yourself that she was the mother in that situation and therefore was invested with rights and responsibilities by law. Now, you are the mother. You have the power here, she's just causing a fuss from the sidelines.

That is one of the most reassuring thingames I've read. You are absolutely right and I had not considered that before. Thank you @Ivyonafence

Ye God's. Apologies for all typos. New phone and it seems to have a mind of its own in the reply box!

Hang on... your mother messaged you back in 2017 as per the quote below:

"This emotional abuse came to a head i. 2017 when she had a falling out with my brother that I wasn't in any way inolved in (he also lives over 100 miles from me). I finished work and switched on my phone to find multiple messages from her telling me how upset she was with both of us and how she now wanted nothing to do with me or my children and that she'd be known as [her name] not Nanny anymore.

I ignored them and didn't get involved. She then went on to send my SIL a text that said and I quote '[my nephew] was the only grandchild that ever felt real to me'."

And you cheerfully complied with her wishes to have nothing more to do with you... now she's trying to take you to court for simply following her wishes?