Grandparents rights and contact (currently NC)

[NoContactThankYou]

Name changed for privacy.

I'm wondering if anyone could offer any advice please.

I went NC with my mother in December 2017 following years of emotional abuse that all came to a head between November and December 2017.

Since then she has had no contact with my children (born 2011 and 2013). This is despite repeated efforts on her part including texts, emails and cards. On one occasion she had her partner knock our door with flowers and gifts whilst she waited in the car and more recently (July 2021) knocked on our door herself. Both times they were sent away and DC had no idea what had happened.

My brother rang me today to tell me that she was now going down the legal route. First with mediation and if we refuse that, she will take us to court. He passed on that should I allow her contact with my children, she will cease legal action.

I am well aware that she is trying to scare me into complying with her. I am standing my ground and won't be blackmailed. There will be no mediation and we are content to fight this all the way.

She's basing her right to access on Grandparents Rights and I'm fairly sure she doesn't have a case. She is effectively a stranger to my children, having not seen or spoken to them for four years, though they know of her through photographs and general stories. DC1 remembers her more so than DC2. She lives over 100 miles away and prior to NC saw them 2-3 times a year, perhaps up to 4 times if she popped in for lunch as she was passing to visit other family. We have never lived locally to her and she has never had them alone for more than a couple of hours at a time and those instances probably number less than five.

I have written evidence of her emotional abuse spanning from that period in November/December 2017 up to July 2020 via her emails and text messages. I could also provide oral evidence of emotional abuse and neglect from my own childhood, including allowing me to be physically abused by someone else and how I requested to be put into foster care as a result (and was).

I have no concerns about physical safeguarding if my children were to have contact, but both DH and I have huge concerns about emotional abuse based on previous patterns.

But still, I worry. What if they grant her contact? I don't know about the legal side of things so I am hoping that someone wise may be here to help.

Thank you.

I’m certainly not projecting. I don’t have grandchildren. I said in the first place that grandparents had no rights in this case. But we don’t know what “abusive” actually meant. Other family members are allowed to disagree. However the op has the advice she wants. But don’t forget that when children are older they might take a different view. It’s also judgemental to never think people can change. You don’t have parental responsibility for grandchildren so it’s a different relationship. They could be decent grandparents.

I would add that I doubt that @TizerorFizz would have said the same if the abuse (perpetrated directly by the grandparent) had been physical or sexual in nature. His/her assumption seems to be that this is a disagreement more than anything else.

Do you know any different? So you are assuming too.

@TizerorFizz

I’m certainly not projecting. I don’t have grandchildren. I said in the first place that grandparents had no rights in this case. But we don’t know what “abusive” actually meant. Other family members are allowed to disagree. However the op has the advice she wants. But don’t forget that when children are older they might take a different view. It’s also judgemental to never think people can change. You don’t have parental responsibility for grandchildren so it’s a different relationship. They could be decent grandparents.

Are you serious? As I said in my post just now, if the abuse had been physical in nature, I doubt you'd say the same thing. And how about if it was an emotionally abusive partner? Would you say that he could still be a good dad, even if it was cruel and verbally abusive to their mum every day?

@TizerorFizz

I think you have used your children as a weapon and not seeing grandparents is not good for their emotional development. However the grandparents have no rights. Sorting something out at mediation would be better and your children should be consulted about what they want. You have made this decision but they have lost grandparents. It’s similar to bereavement for them. So sorting out your differences might be better for DC.

I dont know if you are projecting your own experience here but you have been on several threads accusing women of using children as a weapon against husbands and now Grandparents. Do you not like women very much?

@TizerorFizz

Do you know any different? So you are assuming too.

No, I'm not assuming. I'm listening to what the OP is saying.

@Iwonder08

You have absolutely nothing to worry about. She will have to get a lawyer to proceed who will most certainly explain to her she has no chance. It is likely she is trying to intimidate and threaten you. Given your brother took this shameful role fo her messenger I would pass the message back: ' knock yourself out. There will be no mediation, she can proceed to court if she wants to, you are not even remotely interested'. I would also tell your brother you are disappointed he decided to get involved in her games

Thanks. I did say to DH that I hoped a lawyer would tell her she's got no chance and nip it all in the bud.

And that's pretty much exactly what I said to my brother when he told me. Minus the being disappointed in him being involved. DH wanted to ring him and bollock him but I asked him not to. I think I will ring him now to follow up. Knowing him, he will see it as giving me a heads up and won't have seen the harm, but he is facilitating her.

Thanks again all for the reassurance.

Neither parents or grandparents have rights. They have responsibilities. Children need to be protected from emotional and physical abusers. Your DM is being unreasonable. If she really wanted to see the DC, she would have made more effort when she had the opportunity. She wants to punish and control you through the DC. It’s a big fat ignore from me.

I doubt she will get very far. You had to go into foster care because of her failure as a parent. I dont blame you for not wanting any contact.

@TizerorFizz

I think you have used your children as a weapon and not seeing grandparents is not good for their emotional development. However the grandparents have no rights. Sorting something out at mediation would be better and your children should be consulted about what they want. You have made this decision but they have lost grandparents. It’s similar to bereavement for them. So sorting out your differences might be better for DC.

What a lot if utter crap.

She's protected her children from being abused by her mother, she's done the right thing.

Stop being an abuse apologist.

I know this might sound spiteful but tbh I would almost want her to go to court so she could be told by a professional that she has no chance and to jog on.

You’re well rid of her OP, and when your children grow up I would tell them why they don’t have contact with her.

This isn’t like a parent relationship where you need to seem impartial, other family relationships are different and there’s no harm in the children knowing the truth.

OP, I think your parents are wasting their time and money on going to court, and it probably won’t even get that far.

Glad you’ve got some good answers on here OP. I’m in a similar position and it’s awful, and difficult for others to understand.

As an aside, have you spoken to the police about your parents behaviour? Mine were doing much less than you’ve described and it was considered harassment. I was scared to for ages, because I though it would make things worse but the police were amazing and supportive, and have completely stopped it.

Just something to think about!

@tizerorfizz as someone whose parents protected her from GPs who had been abusive to my mum and her siblings I am grateful. My mum's younger sibling didn't take the same view and her kids ended up with massive mental health problems.

OP she won’t have a leg to stand on. Any decent solicitor will make that clear to her. It sounds like your mum and brother are just trying to intimidate you into allowing contact bu the stain glass legal action because it sounds scary.

Also please just ignore @TizerorFizz

@withgraceinmyheart

Glad you’ve got some good answers on here OP. I’m in a similar position and it’s awful, and difficult for others to understand.

As an aside, have you spoken to the police about your parents behaviour? Mine were doing much less than you’ve described and it was considered harassment. I was scared to for ages, because I though it would make things worse but the police were amazing and supportive, and have completely stopped it.

Just something to think about!

I considered contacting the police or applying for a non-molestation order in July 2020 when emails via another family member started up. However I didn't want to be the one to escalate things because of potential wider fall out with extended family (some of whom hold the same view as tizerorfizz).

OP I am in a similar situation and also a while ago asked here if my parents could go to court to see my DC. People told me they had no chance.

@TizerorFizz

For me, the fact that she is my mother is a red herring. The question is whether I feel it is right to protect my DC from an emotional abuser, and the answer is a resounding yes. Just because the abuser is my mother does not mean I have to put my children in a situation where they could be abused. It is not worth taking the chance to see if she would be a good grandmother, because in order to be a good grandmother she would have to be a good mother first, supporting me emotionally and not undermining me, and that's not something my mother will do as she sees me as competition.

@TizerorFizz

I think you have used your children as a weapon and not seeing grandparents is not good for their emotional development. However the grandparents have no rights. Sorting something out at mediation would be better and your children should be consulted about what they want. You have made this decision but they have lost grandparents. It’s similar to bereavement for them. So sorting out your differences might be better for DC.

There's a huge difference between using your children as a weapon, and protecting them.

She hasn't a cat in hells chance of getting visitation. It's just more emotional abuse from her Speak to a solicitor who will reassure you of your rights. No mediation and she has no case.

I hope that nothing comes of it Op.

I have often seen on here about shit mothers who are wonderful grandmothers & it baffles me that they are give the chance tbh.

@TizerorFizz

I think you have used your children as a weapon and not seeing grandparents is not good for their emotional development. However the grandparents have no rights. Sorting something out at mediation would be better and your children should be consulted about what they want. You have made this decision but they have lost grandparents. It’s similar to bereavement for them. So sorting out your differences might be better for DC.

You should not be required to attend mediation or counseling with an abuser. Any therapist will tell you that.

This is the same argument abused in family courts to force children into a relationship with an abusive parent and thereby continue the abuse of the other parent and often the children themselves.

There is no benefit to the children in being used as tools of control and perpetuating abuse by grandparents.

That said, if she does push for legal action, I think legal action of my own once she's denied access would then be warranted.

In a way I agree with you @AlternativePerspective. Clearly my boundaries aren't enough, she needs to hear it from someone 'important'.

My worry about the courts stems from childhood experiences.

My parents divorced when I was 11. My dad met someone else by chance fairly quickly. My mum always assumed they'd get back together. On the night he told her by phone that he was with someone else now (6 months after he moved out and with the divorce proceedings well underway), she took my brother and I on a train from London to his new home in Lancashire (where he'd moved for his own family support network) and we arrived at 2am. She left for London the next day, leaving us behind. Her aim was to destroy his new relationship.

My dad enrolled us in school immediately and sought to give us a stable home life.

My mum then began a custody battle. I clearly remember talking to a social worker who asked me where I wanted to love, but followed up with they would take my brothers wishes into higher account because he was younger (this was in 1994). My brother wanted to live with my mum as she allowed him to do whatever he wanted and my dad was stricter (but always fair). Despite her actions and the fact we weren't living with her, my mum was awarded full custody and several months later turned up at our house. She was there when I got home from school. I was on a train 40 minutes later with no chance to say goodbye to my friends.

Later (1996), when I asked to be placed in foster care, my dad was on the phone to me the next morning to check I was okay. He lobbied to have me removed to his care but because she had custody, she fought him and instead we had to do mediation so I could be returned to her home.

So I have a deep distrust of courts. They always seem to go her way despite her actions, hence my concerns.

@TizerorFizz

I’m certainly not projecting. I don’t have grandchildren. I said in the first place that grandparents had no rights in this case. But we don’t know what “abusive” actually meant. Other family members are allowed to disagree. However the op has the advice she wants. But don’t forget that when children are older they might take a different view. It’s also judgemental to never think people can change. You don’t have parental responsibility for grandchildren so it’s a different relationship. They could be decent grandparents.

Unless you know the OP personally, then you don't know. Here we take what they say as right (troll aside) I went NC with my mother in December 2017 following years of emotional abuse that all came to a head between November and December 2017.

Would you want a relationship with someone that abused your mother? Really? I wouldn't

Do you think the OP is lying? Is that what you are saying?

Definitely not a troll. I've posted on the Stately Homes threads about her in the past, though under a different name. Happy for Admin to check my posting history.

I'm sorry to say that this whole sad story is mine alone, though I wish it wasn't.

I think a judge would take a dim view of all this, they don’t like court time wasted on spurious cases like your mothers.