Not on rental agreement can I make him leave?

[MollysDolly]

StbExDH is refusing to leave the house.

He's been abusive long term. I tried. I can't stomach any more.

His current thing is now to boast of all the shags he'll be having, while living here because "there's nothing I can do about it" lots of sneering in my face "you going to make me leave?" etc. I'm tired of the children seeing this as their "role model".

He's not on the rental agreement. We have not yet started divorce proceedings.

Is there anything I can do? I'm not involving police, I can't prove a thing, and it will just make him act like a massive bastard (even more so) in the divorce. I'm not upset or affected by his behaviour, it's like white noise. I just want to know how to get him out.

OP, I can appreciate your frustration, but a man like this can and will restructure his earnings and pension contributions to avoid a massive chunk of that £200k child support you are anticipating.

He's already maxed out his pension contributions to reduce maintenance as much as he can. Should have been more like £500k.

My one "result" is that he's trapped in that job though. He can't work anywhere else in that industry, and he'll be on a tenth of what he has now if he has to leave that career. Hell will freeze over before he loses his "image". Oh he'll be livid I get a penny, but the only way to stop that, is to leave that job, and it's all he is. And he can't ever apply for another because of the DBS he'll fail.

The police were brilliant. My house was alarmed, they have everything on file. Boxes of evidence. He was looking at up to 7 years in prison. I know he's really a coward though, and he'd never have survived it. His own mother said he'd end his life if he went to prison, then almost shrugged. I didn't want DC to have that done to them. So I told the police I didn't want to proceed, literally as they were out to arrest him.

It's all on file ready though. If I call them, he won't just be removed, that will all be opened, they've told me they will prosecute without me should anything arise again. Except all his friends are lawyers and by the time they've discredited everything they possibly can, they'll get him a sentence of 6 months if anything.

So, hurrah, I gain 6 less weeks of him here. We just won't think about what happens in 6 months when he's released.

Please don't think I'm inexperienced. I've explained enough.

Is there anything that can get an occupation order seen urgently? I'll take a stab at filling it in myself...

@CorrBlimeyGG

What is going to happen in six weeks? An eviction will take far longer than that if he doesn't want to leave.

The occupation order

My situation was so exactly the same, that it was even December that I posted here at my wits end!

@SeaToSki

I found this

www.gov.uk/injunction-domestic-violence

It covers non mol and occupation orders. It looks like you can do it yourself, you can add a high speed (emergency) clause and it might all happen ‘on paper’ so that you dont have to see him in court. It also looks like its free (but I dont know that for sure)

That's super thank you xx

@Theunamedcat

Are you claiming child maintenance now? While he is living with you?

No, but they've opened the case, done the calculation, I've explained he's here and won't get out, and in no way contributing to the household, and they've given him his first payment as due end of this month.

They were brilliant too, especially with the evidence of domestic abuse, they don't let men get away with no child support, because they are refusing to leave the house.

My ex, since he walked out of his job and finally left this house, moved to the other side of the country and has only worked ad hoc on minimum wage since. I've had IN TOTAL about three months of minimum wage maintenance.

Please please please don't rely on future maintenance to stay in a shitty situation now.

@VanCleefArpels

Wouldn’t a threat to involve police etc so that he’d lose his career be an incentive for him to leave? And as others have said you are not responsible for his choices or his career and you can never guarantee how much maintenance you might get - either due to his machinations or something like illness or even death. You need to plan on being financially independent - claim benefits and/or work eventually as your family circumstances permit.

Your best and only option is to get the occupation order - stop putting his needs first!

No. A threat of the police is pointless. Because unless I then do it there and then, he'll know I'm bluffing, and that's the last thing you let him think.

It's best to say nothing, then he behaves better because he can't quite be sure if I'm contemplating it. That's a better deterrent.

Am currently very grey rock with him.

Yes I do appreciate he could get hit by a bus tomorrow. Yes that means no maintenance. That's nothing to do with me. Actively ending his career, would be me deliberately stopping my own maintenance.

I'm not putting his needs first. I need him to pay maintenance. These are my needs. Once DC are grown, he can live off benefits for all I care.

No, but they've opened the case, done the calculation, I've explained he's here and won't get out, and in no way contributing to the household, and they've given him his first payment as due end of this month

So his first payment is due from him this month . But I thought you said you got it straight from his employer ?

My child maintenance comes direct from his employer. So no, it's not about playing a good girl so he chooses to let me have it. I get it regardless

@BeyondShrinks

My ex, since he walked out of his job and finally left this house, moved to the other side of the country and has only worked ad hoc on minimum wage since. I've had IN TOTAL about three months of minimum wage maintenance.

Please please please don't rely on future maintenance to stay in a shitty situation now.

Ok, but whilst I appreciate this might be your ex it is not mine.

He is his job. It's his whole identity. He's nothing without it. There is nothing else in his life. He likes to pretend he's a millionaire, and he does have a massive salary, so he can indeed fake the look he wants to give.

He might hate me. But he'd rather have to give me what he does, than ever lose his image. He won't go jobless, or minimum wage out of spite. His ego won't allow it.

If he was on £30k a year, and thought fuck it, I'll stay at home rather than let her have any, that might be more plausible. He's on hundreds of thousands. Lose half in tax. Lose the rest he's desperately ramming into pensions, as soon as he saw CMS involved. He has to go through stringent DBS to get any equal position, should he ever leave this specific job. It's all he's qualified in. And if he left it, he'd have to work in a shop or something, probably on £20k a year. He will never ever let people see him like that. I'm not deluded. He can't ferret any more away. It's this job or nothing for him. His ego can't live with "nothing."

I sincerely hope you are right, molly. I am just concerned that you are underestimating how spiteful some abusive men can be.

Lots of us manage without maintenance. I'm not saying it's easy but is it really worth all this risk and drama for future maintenance payments?

@Double3xposure

No, but they've opened the case, done the calculation, I've explained he's here and won't get out, and in no way contributing to the household, and they've given him his first payment as due end of this month

So his first payment is due from him this month . But I thought you said you got it straight from his employer ?

My child maintenance comes direct from his employer. So no, it's not about playing a good girl so he chooses to let me have it. I get it regardless

Is this the only straw to clutch at now you're professionally offended?

Yes. HIS first payment is due at the end of the month. HIS employers will deduct HIS maintenance to make HIS first payment to me.

@BeyondShrinks

I sincerely hope you are right, molly. I am just concerned that you are underestimating how spiteful some abusive men can be.

This has crossed my mind. Of course it has.

What I've encountered has been horrific. And I think, it can't ever be worse than what he's done already. I guess it always can, I just can't imagine how.

@NynaeveSedai

Lots of us manage without maintenance. I'm not saying it's easy but is it really worth all this risk and drama for future maintenance payments?

I don't think it's dramatic. In any form.

It's not just about the maintenance. If the police are involved again, once "I've" taken his job from him, we would all be in real danger. To him, he'd have nothing to lose then.

Most people who are clever enough to earn hundreds of thousands in a salaried position ( which unusually requires DBS checks ) are clever enough to get legal and financial advice on how to avoid child maintenance.

So I do hope you are right @MollysDolly that you will get the £200k or £500k that you say you will.

However I do think you are very optimistic. Even if your husband is earning the maximum that CSA can take account of, the maximum child support you can get for your 3 children is £25,044 a year. That’s assuming that he has then for less than 52 nights a year.

But I’m sure you know this already as you say you’ve had the calculation from CSA.

Can I ask did you decide to live in your parents property when your husband is a very high earner? Are you sure he doesn't own property elsewhere ?

Yes. HIS first payment is due at the end of the month. HIS employers will deduct HIS maintenance to make HIS first payment to me

Ok, so you didn’t try to do a family based arrangement first? And the CSA didn’t insist that you gave him a chance to pay voluntarily ?

Im amazed that they decided to go to court immediately to get an order and the courts granted it so fast without even giving him a chance. He must have a terrible solicitor.

How did you get CSA to move so fast in your case? Lots of other mums would love to know this as they have been waiting for months or even years ! Yet you got them to do this on the first month while you are still living at the same address.

Please tell us your secret.

I think, in a nutshell, he technically could walk away from an enormous salary to stop my maintenance. If he did that there's nothing I can do. I'm not ok with that, but that's out of my control. I see this as almost impossible. His only alternatives would be to work abroad. He can't get a visa because of the serious disclosures on his DBS. I do feel he's pretty stuck to maintain his image in the only job he's ever going to have. Of course, he could also get sacked completely independently of all of this. Again, that's out of my control.

What I'm not going to do is take action to guarantee he's unemployed and void myself of anything ever, and make myself a marked woman in the process.

May I point out that his right to occupy ends automatically on decree Absolute.

Have you started divorce proceedings yet?

Ok, so you didn’t try to do a family based arrangement first? And the CSA didn’t insist that you gave him a chance to pay voluntarily ?

No. When domestic violence is present, they skip past all this. I had the option of all that. I just said no, I don't want that, and they moved to the next step. You don't pay the fee either, although I think that was only £20.

Im amazed that they decided to go to court immediately to get an order and the courts granted it so fast without even giving him a chance. He must have a terrible solicitor.

Who's gone to court?

How did you get CSA to move so fast in your case? Lots of other mums would love to know this as they have been waiting for months or even years ! Yet you got them to do this on the first month while you are still living at the same address.

I think from my first contact to the final "this is what's happening" was 5 weeks? I'm not sure why you are struggling with the same address, they've seen his messages and are confident he is simply refusing to leave. The maintenance isn't void because I can't get an abusive man to get out. The children aren't expected to live on thin air because of this. They have asked him to show anything he pays related to me/children/house and he couldn't. Because he doesn't. He can also apparently use this address as his correspondence address with them until he's got a permanent residence elsewhere. Sorry you're having a bad time with them.

Please tell us your secret.

Just have, no secret, that's what happened

Or he could move in with a single mum and her kids.

Or have more children with someone else.

Or go self employed and work on a consultancy basis with his existing employer.

Or set up his company off shore in a tax haven.

Or he will lose his job anyway when his DBS is updated by his current employer.

@MrsBertBibby

May I point out that his right to occupy ends automatically on decree Absolute.

Have you started divorce proceedings yet?

Nope. I don't know what to do here.

Like I said, he's got loads of mates who are solicitors. I think I'm probably entitled to spousal maintenance (only 2.5yr marriage, but 2 DC together, plus my eldest as children of marriage, plus ended because of domestic abuse, so I think they don't write it off as a short marriage) but he'll have a team of hotshots all gunning me down for free, I can say with conviction, I'll get nothing from the divorce. I'll have one legal aid solicitor in my corner. He won't even have any costs.

I can't do much until he's out, he will just go through my things and take pictures of any solicitor correspondence, so he knows every step we are taking, so I'm holding off until he's not physically present.

Who's gone to court?

You said that CSA were getting your child maintenance from his employer. They can’t do that without a deduction of earnings order from the court.

That’s why I’m amazed that they made a calculation, notified your husband, given him a change to pay, he’s failed to pay, taken him to court , got an order, discussed it with him again and then notified his employer of the court order.

All in 5 weeks. Especially when there’s such a backlog with covid.

Or he could move in with a single mum and her kids.

Well. One that's got enough spare cash aside to maintain the image he must have. I'm sure millionaire single mums exist. I'm sure they aren't daft either.

Or have more children with someone else.

Nope. Le snip. He won't have that reversed. I bet he won't tell future women though, he can stay around longer if he's convinced them they're TTC.

Or go self employed and work on a consultancy basis with his existing employer.

He's tried that. The IR 35 (or something like that) prevented it.

Or set up his company off shore in a tax haven.

Same as above. He can't be a consultant to this firm in any capacity, offshore or UK. Just an employee.

Or he will lose his job anyway when his DBS is updated by his current employer.

Yes. He's up the bosses arse like you can not comprehend now he realises he's trapped there. I think he's going to try and plead to stay if/when this happens. I "made it all up" etc. He's the real victim etc.

OP you said that your husband will do terrible things to you if you threaten his employment.

You also said that you have threatened his employment prospects already by reporting his domestic violence

What did he do to you when you made that report?

@Double3xposure

Who's gone to court?

You said that CSA were getting your child maintenance from his employer. They can’t do that without a deduction of earnings order from the court.

That’s why I’m amazed that they made a calculation, notified your husband, given him a change to pay, he’s failed to pay, taken him to court , got an order, discussed it with him again and then notified his employer of the court order.

All in 5 weeks. Especially when there’s such a backlog with covid.

It's set up that it's coming straight from his employer. I think he's got the opportunity to say he doesn't want that, and to be given the chance to pay it himself, but he's done nothing as yet.

Maybe this is specific to domestic abuse cases that they default to this. I couldn't tell you. I know he was spitting feathers about his work knowing he's been "done by CMS".

I've heard nothing about court. If that's something CMS do independently, I wouldn't, would I.