Family court - what’s the point?

[NooNooMummy]

How would this go down? Next family court hearing/ CAFCASS meeting, I just say nothing. He lies, they listen. I point them to his DV, abuse,violence, lies and it’s ignored (Are they not allowed to consider the copies of emails/ text messages and the involvement of various agencies?) I give up.

@RainingBows
Of course the parent that’s done the work feels resentment towards the parent that has walked out. However the absent parent does have the right to ask that they see their child. The courts look at this from the position of the child and not from the position of a wronged parent. I can totally see how such a parent would feel but not giving the dad access to court to ask to see the child just prolongs his mistake.

You must know there are thousands of dads and some mums that walk out! You might not understand it but they have their reasons and then circumstances change. Lives change.

No one is talking about nice but a little feckless dads getting access here. Were not talking about withholding contact maliciously. We’re talking about people trying to safeguard their children from abusive and violent people and the feeling like the courts are not listening or taking the time to look at the evidence. Some evidence is hearsay due to the nature of abuse but is often true. Sorry someone who can injury, threaten to hurt, and abuse the child’s mother is not a good or ok parent in my opinion ever. The mothers know you can not trust them what ever spin they want to give it for the court.

We’ll said @womblelump

I think a court would listen to a skilled barrister saying that. It’s about advocacy and I am fairly certain parents say all sorts of things about the other parents. Some are true and some are not. Depends on the case.

My ex had my mobile phone login, all my email logins and work logins. It never bothered me as I didn't have anything to hide. Does that mean she shouldn't see her child? Because she wanted to know where I was and that was a form of coercive control? Course not. That was routed in her own anxiety and insecurities rather than control and domination.

I think it would be helpful to outline what form of abuse would constitute removal of a parent from a childs life. A parent who was physically violent to their partner and it wasn't a one off then I would be concerned about leaving a young child with that parent unsupervised. Especially if they had hurt a child. Same if the other parent had problems with substances and couldn't remain sober with their child.

@Skeptadad
I think those cases would be supervised contact. I’m not sure if there is phased contact after parent gets parenting lessons etc?

There are Domestic Abuse Perpetrator Programmes but I don't think they are that successful in fact I recall that the completion rate was poor as was the efficacy.

I can definitely empathize with a mum who has been physically beaten by their ex but is told by the courts they have to make their children available for contact. Also if they are sure they are likely to be neglected. It would be terrifying. Assuming they were a good mum of course.

I'm glad you're seeing the other side of the coin, skeptadad. It's a useful debate.

The problem is that supervised contact is not designed to be forever, just a few months, as a staging post to unsupervised contact. What happens if there is no improvement or any signs of awareness from the abusive NRP? That they turn up for contact but continue to minimise or deny the abuse. What happens then? They have a few months in a contact centre, where they're on best behaviour and can't abuse the child as they're being supervised, they've ticked that box by going on a course. But it's clear that nothing has changed. What happens then?

Well I use an app called OnRecord:
www.myonrecord.com/

Where I can log incidents, photos, comments, concerns, red flags.

If I thought my ex was a genuine threat to our child I would continue to log these incidents and then take it back to court, lay out the incidents against the welfare checklist and argue for a reduction in contact. As daughter is only two I have to use this app as whilst she is a clever cookie her statements are sometimes fantastical and I don't think it's right to pry or place her in the middle.

Obviously if the child was older and was under threat they would have more of a say in things, so depending on the severity of the incident I would log with appropriate professionals. The least invasive way would initially be to put these on her medical records and then more concerning incidents would be reported to the school to build up an evidencable history. Even the police if severe enough.

If I hand on heart thought my child would come to harm and had sufficient evidence I would withhold contact and say I have withheld contact because of X,Y and Z which would be cross referenced with the app medical and educational records. I would need to be very sure of this as it could be viewed negatively if sufficient precautions werent in place.

@skeptadad
Everything you suggest would, according to your earlier comments, be considered just ‘hearsay.’
And in the face of a lying, manipulative, abusive NRP and incompetent/over-stretched courts and CAFCASS, it is given little weight or ignored completely. That’s my experience. So, I say again, what is the point of the family courts?

I am going to leave this thread noonoo mummy just wants to argue with me and I don't like conflict.

Best of luck with your cases.