Emergency prohibited steps order - changing schools

[confused45678]

Morning folks. My ex and I split 4.5 years ago. In Feb this year a child arrangement order was granted whereby our child (nearly 10 years old) lives with me and sees their dad every other weekend.
I offered more time, overnights in the week, our for tea in the week. He declined, and said this to CAFCASS for their section 7.

Since then our child gets upset every other weekend when coming home because they know they won't see their dad for another 2 weeks. I've tried and tried and tried to have him come down regularly in the week but he tries once and doesn't do it again. He's never done parents evenings, sports days, being off when they're poorly, dentist, doctors etc.

He's said to our child that if they want to see him more then they'll have to come and live with him, that's the only way he can see them more.

The last few months have become completely untenable, child wants to go live with dad because she knows its the only way they can go and see him more often than 4 days a month. They've been so angry, lashing out, crying, shouting that dad doesn't care about them etc. It's gotten so bad that last week I said if she wants to try living with her dad then fine, I can't think of any other way to help and it breaks my heart seeing the anger and the tears all the time. I love my child more than anyone in the world.

We recently bought a house in August and my child started at the local school, in year 5. They've had a great first parents evening, settled well. When they went to stop with her dad he'd told her them they have to move schools, my child said to me they don't want to as they like the current school. They have to go to breakfast club or afterschool club because there are family in the village to pick them up every day. They would be in wrap around care if they moved schools. I believe they've probably now been convinced to move schools as dad's neighbours child goes to one near her dad's house and they're friends, even though they won't be in the same year.

I appreciate this was very long. Sorry. My question is she's just got settled at a new school, would I be eligible for an emergency prohibited steps order? He has already applied with the LA to move her to one local to him (we live 10 miles apart). I'm nervous that if I apply for a regular prohibited steps, the move will go ahead and the court won't want to change her schools back. 2 school moves in 8 weeks seems awful on our child, even if she doesn't yet realise the implications!

OP you need to take back what you said about letting her go. Don't let children make adult decisions

You will be able to call his bluff then as someone else said.

Did he take you to court for alternate weekends or was he seeking more contact? Or did you take him to court to get something structured appropriately.

It's unusual for cases where there is a reasonable mum to end up on court.

@Skeptadad

You will be able to call his bluff then as someone else said.

Did he take you to court for alternate weekends or was he seeking more contact? Or did you take him to court to get something structured appropriately.

It's unusual for cases where there is a reasonable mum to end up on court.

What absolute garbage that if a mum is reasonable it doesn’t end up in court.

How far apart do you live?

Care to elaborate DebbieHarrysCheekbones? I am assuming most applications to family court are from non-resident parents (dads). Why would a dad happy with contact arrangements go to family court?

In fact in my own situation if my ex left reasonably (took the money I offered for a deposit for new accommodation) rather than making it look like she needed to escape my tyranny curtesy of hysterical advice (as seen on this thread) I would have settled for being a weekend dad.

Sadly for her now our 2 year old lives with me half the week.

The problem as I see it is that third parties, solicitors and people posting on forums get involved in situations they know nothing about rupturing and causing irreconcilable damage to families.

At handovers I have nothing to say to my ex. Which is a shame because if she hadn't have gone down the false allegation route we could have had a nice progressive relationship for our daughter.

I don't find the notion of a Father refusing contact while at the same time demanding a 'lived with' order difficult to understand and I do not agree that it's ''unusual for a reasonable mum to end up in court''. I have a lived with order that was made as a result of proceedings ex started to get a lived with order for himself when we separated. The reason he took me to court is because I would not agree to hand over our child for his girlfriend to raise and remove myself from our child's life. I felt it was reasonable we both be part of our child's life. Should I have just stepped aside???

Ex disagrees with the order and has refused to take the contact outlined in the order bar 1 night eow. Yet in response to our child asking for more contact he has spent these 10 years telling our child that if she can have more contact but only if she leaves me to live with him full time. Like Op's child, our child has struggled with this stance hugely - as her Dad's time and attention is conditional upon her not living with her Mum. He sees her eow for 1 night, that's it. He won't budge for anything, refuses to come to her school for parents evenings etc - also conditional upon living with him. His aim is quite simply to ensure I am erased from our child's life. It doesn't have to make sense.. he failed to convince the court to remove her from me, so he moved on to trying to get our child to as he put it ''vote with her feet''.

While there are Dads out there who genuinely want to spend time with their children, there are also Dads who do use their children as pawns to further abuse - children then get tangled in that and often end up emotionally abused themselves. While none of us know the specifics of Op's case beyond what she's shared, it does not sound like her ex is acting in a child centric way.

@Skeptadad

Care to elaborate DebbieHarrysCheekbones? I am assuming most applications to family court are from non-resident parents (dads). Why would a dad happy with contact arrangements go to family court?

In fact in my own situation if my ex left reasonably (took the money I offered for a deposit for new accommodation) rather than making it look like she needed to escape my tyranny curtesy of hysterical advice (as seen on this thread) I would have settled for being a weekend dad.

Sadly for her now our 2 year old lives with me half the week.

The problem as I see it is that third parties, solicitors and people posting on forums get involved in situations they know nothing about rupturing and causing irreconcilable damage to families.

At handovers I have nothing to say to my ex. Which is a shame because if she hadn't have gone down the false allegation route we could have had a nice progressive relationship for our daughter.

You are so caught up in your own story you perhaps can’t see the realities of what lies behind many court applications that are purported to be about child contact when in actual fact they are a ruse to carry on abuse - in many forms- and control in a system that has been hamstrung by ignorance, a combative outmoded atmosphere and a forum where women and children are cannon fodder for these men.

Why do you think there is a new Domestic Abuse Bill widely acknowledged to be woefully overdue, especially in a family court setting? Incidentally a review that did not consult CAFCASS and righty so in my opinion.

@Pinkyxx
“I don't find the notion of a Father refusing contact while at the same time demanding a 'lived with' order difficult to understand and I do not agree that it's ''unusual for a reasonable mum to end up in court''.”

I completely agree

Yes Pinkyxx, it doesn't sound like he is acting in a child centric way. If you thought it was reasonable you were both part of child's life why didn't you go for shared care? Or did you think it was safer for your child to have your ex partners influence minimized (which is the stance that took me to shared care so I can understand that).

Incorrect DebbieHarrysCheekbones bones. I know all about domestic abuse and the ins and outs for days. Since I was falsely accused I have read all the academic literature and know it inside out and back to front.

60-80% of family court cases now allege domestic abuse however 5% (roughly) of the general population are currently being abused. I suspect you are going to say all these court cases are because of domestic abuse but that wouldn't account for the massive disparity between cases alleging domestic abuse and the prevalence in wider society.

Indeed, even the very reasonable sounding OP who I do believe, went to court alleging domestic abuse but is now sending messages to her ex asking for him to have their child more often. I think you can see the problem here.

@Skeptadad

Incorrect DebbieHarrysCheekbones bones. I know all about domestic abuse and the ins and outs for days. Since I was falsely accused I have read all the academic literature and know it inside out and back to front.

60-80% of family court cases now allege domestic abuse however 5% (roughly) of the general population are currently being abused. I suspect you are going to say all these court cases are because of domestic abuse but that wouldn't account for the massive disparity between cases alleging domestic abuse and the prevalence in wider society.

Indeed, even the very reasonable sounding OP who I do believe, went to court alleging domestic abuse but is now sending messages to her ex asking for him to have their child more often. I think you can see the problem here.

How do you know what know what percentage of the population “are being abused?” What a bizarre thing to state.

It's not hard you just divide the ONS statistics for domestic abuse by the population of the UK. In fact its 3.4%.

This is about children and finding a way forward and you are the one DebbieHarrysCheekbones that starting making this about domestic abuse.

So unreasonable mums are the ones that end in court? Ha!

You just need an unreasonable parent, woman or man to end up in court.

If it helps to clarify the issue, you are going to find this difficult to believe but I am a woman who contacted Fathers for Justice (among other charities) to get their perspective after my ex husband took an “in my terms or nothing approach” similar to the one described by the OP and used the same manipulation making my child believe I was the one blocking contact when in fact I was happy for it to increase.

They told me my exH was abusive and that I should apply for a court order to formalise the then current contact and stop him manipulating DC. I did, they were right, he didn’t accept the offer to increase contact but demanded to have it decreased!

Sadly as it is, some parents, men or women, hate their exes far more than they love their children. The OP is trying to put her child first, the ex is only hurting the child to get to the mother.

So well done OP in seeking a prohibition steps order. As other people said, given your child the hope she can choose who to leave with maybe what is making her so insecure.

Explain the situation in age appropriate words/concepts and stop accommodating a guy who is happy to hurt his own child to get at you. You need to protect your child first and above all.

Thank you GrandmasCat et al you have changed my mind about it being stubborn mums! Part of the reason I joined was to see things from the other side. I stand corrected!

I wouldn't bother with Fathers for Justice even they are toxic and misogynistic. I used to follow them but when they were celebrating the death of a baby by a mother to prove a point. Well it was sick. I hate that kind of thing.

What a lovely chap?! ::"/* Using emotional blackmail on a child so he gets what he allegedly wants. For someone who couldn't be arsed with seeing his kids more than once a fortnight he will be in for a shock when they are actually living with him. Also does this affect your child maintenance in that he will become the resident parent with care and you will be deemed the 'absent' parent making you liable to pay him maintenance?

Nine months is a bit too soon to change an order that was obviously made after much input from the court. But it's not an impossibility, it would depend on the facts presented.

Skeptadad...you accuse others of making assumptions and then proceed to do exactly that, in the worst kind of way, yourself. Your agenda is showing.

I agree with Justanother (and I am a lawyer too although not a family lawyer). Do not change the contact the court fixed. Do not allow the change of school. do not allow the child to move in with the father. You are in charge and you are the parent. If the child is unhappy they will just have to lump it.

@Skeptadad

Thank you GrandmasCat et al you have changed my mind about it being stubborn mums! Part of the reason I joined was to see things from the other side. I stand corrected!

I wouldn't bother with Fathers for Justice even they are toxic and misogynistic. I used to follow them but when they were celebrating the death of a baby by a mother to prove a point. Well it was sick. I hate that kind of thing.

I don’t have much respect at all for Fathers for Justice, but with my ex acting like a psycho, I wanted to check if they could see some redeeming features/perspectives in my ex I was missing that could be causing the issues.

They couldn’t but I am grateful they listened as I was expecting them to hang the phone of me the moment they realised I was a woman.

@Skeptadad

It's not hard you just divide the ONS statistics for domestic abuse by the population of the UK. In fact its 3.4%.

This is about children and finding a way forward and you are the one DebbieHarrysCheekbones that starting making this about domestic abuse.

The OP made explicit reference to emotional abuse not me.

Whilst we know a great deal about your circumstances you know sweet F A about mine. All I will say I gave my children’s father more than enough chances and was bullied for so long so he got what he wanted and instead of it being a conduit to embedding life long healthy independent relationships with his children it provided a platform for things wouldn’t wish on any man or woman. Because it wasn’t enough he decided to drag me through court for the third time and it’s backfired badly. I was one of those reasonable mothers that ended up in court.

If it makes you feel satisfied that that method quantified something as complex and amorphous as abuse then carry on but don’t expect anyone to believe you know the subject inside out in the same breath as asserting that.

Just as your story as everything to you it is the same for us all

@Whenigrowupiwanttobea

What a lovely chap?! ::"/* Using emotional blackmail on a child so he gets what he allegedly wants. For someone who couldn't be arsed with seeing his kids more than once a fortnight he will be in for a shock when they are actually living with him. Also does this affect your child maintenance in that he will become the resident parent with care and you will be deemed the 'absent' parent making you liable to pay him maintenance?

So often it’s all about not paying maintenance They’d be in for a shock when they realise how much more than maintenance a child actually costs

It’s more like the child maintenance disservice though frankly

@skeptadad you're a terrible parent. Drop the bitterness and have a "progressive" relationship for the sake of your daughter, ffs

May I ask how much your daughter knows about her dad's refusal to see her more often?

My mum protected me from from a lot of my dad's fuckwittery, or so she thought. In fact I was, of course, not protected from the results of his actions. Unfortunately my mum hid the reasons for his actions (he was crap and didn't care enough), so I just ended up really confused and upset, and craving love and attention from him.

I wish she had been more honest about his crapness, and not tried to cover it up to try to spare my feelings.

arcof really? She took our 1 year old when my mum had cancer. She told the police I was a pedophile and a rapist. I was investigated for the second. Whilst being investigated for the second she caused my unemployment. Those are the highlights.

Imagine that was your dad or your brother and imagine telling them they are a terrible parent for not wanting to talk to their ex.

@Skeptadad

It's not hard you just divide the ONS statistics for domestic abuse by the population of the UK. In fact its 3.4%.

This is about children and finding a way forward and you are the one DebbieHarrysCheekbones that starting making this about domestic abuse.

That figure is rubbish. What about all the women that doing report it. There was a man verbally abusing his pregnant girlfriend today in my clinic, I asked if she was ok and if she needed to talk to some one and she just said he was 'tired and ratty'. I wondered how he treated her behind closed doors.

So many women do not officially report abuse.

@charliesbookmarker
Glad someone else has called BS