Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Legal matters

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you have any legal concerns we suggest you consult a solicitor.

Original poster

Making children available for contact - what does this actually mean?

81 replies

FoldedBlanket · 14/10/2021 19:33

When a CAO requires the resident parent to make the children available for contact what does this practically mean?

More specifically if you have a child who doesn't want to go at any point, say, and you have driven all dc to the NRP handover point but that dc refuses to go. Have you made them available by taking them there and trying? Or are you required to literally force them?

Obviously resident parent should do all they can to encourage, help, reassure, be positive about contact but if even with all of that the child is adamant about not wanting to go there must come a point where it's detrimental not to listen to their wishes?

OP posts:
Pebbledashery · 14/10/2021 19:39

In simple terms, you are required to force them to go even if they don't want to, unless they are over the age of 12 years old when the court will listen to their views.
Encourage means force.

AdviceOnLife · 14/10/2021 19:48

The guidance looks like it has the child's best interests but, from my own personal experience, I have found it means support the contact order at all costs.
My dd had a child visitation order (I think it has a new name now.) in a visitation centre.
She would get to the street of the centre kick off and I would literally carry her kicking and screaming. I tried to advocate for her. My lawyer tried. The contact center tried. No one listened.
It was horrendous. The only thing that mattered was she was there, regardless that she was tramaised and took an hour to settle before the visit could start.
She is now older still doesn't particularly want to go to visits but goes because she knows she has to.

(Just our family experience-hopefully others have a more positive outlook

Original poster
FoldedBlanket · 14/10/2021 20:11

Oh. That's not good. I thought courts were all about what is in the child's best interests?

OP posts:
Original poster
FoldedBlanket · 14/10/2021 20:14

What happens if the child who doesn't want to go is crying and physically clinging onto the resident parent and running after them when they try to leave the handover point so that they can't actually go without the child, and NRP does nothing at all but watch? What is the RP supposed to do?

OP posts:
Pebbledashery · 14/10/2021 20:29

The court would expect you to walk away and leave them as the assumption would be they will be fine after the initial upset. The only way you will get things changed is if you go back to court and get the order changed sighting that contact is emotionally harming your child, but without a professional on your side or the backing of cafcass that will be very hard to do. The family court does not represent the best interests of the child.

Original poster
FoldedBlanket · 14/10/2021 20:39

In the situation I described just walking away was not an option. The child literally would not stay and the NRP would not do anything so walking away meant the child also leaving because I don't have a freeze ray to make them stay put when they were determined not to.

OP posts:
Brollywasntneededafterall · 14/10/2021 20:45

Sadly you are expected to leave your dc on whatever emotional state...
But at 7 and 10 my dc were spared abusive exh....
How old is the dc op?

Pebbledashery · 14/10/2021 20:52

Your only choice is to go back to court and vary the order.

Halo1234 · 14/10/2021 20:53

Same thing we do when kids don't want to go to school/dentists/hospital appointments. If you have no concerns about their safety or emotional well being whilst there and its just a case of they would rather not then yes you leave then anyway. No?
My son would cling to me not wanting to go to nursery. He still went. Learned to be ok away from me. I know its not the same but as parents we don't always let then decide.
Do you have concerns about dc going? That would sway it

Original poster
FoldedBlanket · 14/10/2021 20:55

Dc is 10. Is it better to proactively go back to vary order or wait and see if ex will apply for enforcement?

OP posts:
Pebbledashery · 14/10/2021 20:55

It is effectively the same as dropping them off to nursery and them crying because they don't want to go in. Can you perhaps ask a third party to facilitate the handover?

Pebbledashery · 14/10/2021 20:56

Definitely don't wait for enforcement action.
You might be lucky and at 10 they could listen to him.
They'd ask cafcass to get involved again no doubt.

crazyguineapiglady · 14/10/2021 20:57

@Pebbledashery

It is effectively the same as dropping them off to nursery and them crying because they don't want to go in. Can you perhaps ask a third party to facilitate the handover?
Except you can pick up a 3 year old and hand them over to another adult - I couldn't physically over power my 10 year old, he's as tall as me!
AcrossthePond55 · 14/10/2021 20:58

Just out of curiosity, what would happen if the RP simply let the child do what they wanted? As in this case if the OP said "Ex, if you want to have 'Mary' you are going to have to come here and take her off me and hold on to her while I leave. I'm not going to do your job for you". If Ex just stood there, I'd leave with the child following me. Let's face it, his inaction is strictly to make you look like the 'bad guy'.

The reason I ask is because from what MN has shown me, UK child orders don't have much 'bite' (as in no criminal penalties for non-return of a child or a RP truly 'blocking' visits). A parent wishing to enforce an order is simply told "If your ex is non-compliant then you'll have to take them back to court". I guess in this case OP would need to decide how likely that is.

Pebbledashery · 14/10/2021 21:00

Basically you have to adhere to the recitals pertaining to handover, if you want to change the handover point then you can do so by mutual agreement, but should the other party not agree, then a variation in the order must be sought.. I think a judge would probably be annoyed that two grown adults can't decide on a handover point and it's a waste of a hearing.

Original poster
FoldedBlanket · 14/10/2021 21:00

Well when dc has not wanted to go into school and has run after me when I've tried to leave then as well as me helping them to stay the school have had someone encouraging them to go in.

And I've never had to take a child to a hospital or dentist appt and leave them there alone, and when they've been nervous and reluctant the doctor or dentist helps to reassure, they don't just sit and watch me struggling with a distressed dc.

Honestly - I stayed for 30 mins trying everything I could to get dc to feel ok about agreeing to stay. Everything in the Arsenal was pulled out but they were not having it, and would not stay. Ex did nothing. It was literally impossible to leave without the dc. I wanted time to myself, I didn't want dc coming home with me. But I couldn't stay there any longer and it was holding up the other dc who were happy to go.

OP posts:
Pebbledashery · 14/10/2021 21:04

Maybe start with a solicitors letter to him quoting that more must be done to him to ensure a less distressing handover, if he doesn't agree then the handover point needs to be altered with him picking up from you.. And if that's not agreed then write to say you're applying to vary the order. Some 10 year olds are very mature and gilick competent. You might be lucky.

Pebbledashery · 14/10/2021 21:04

Gilick competent in the legal sense 😁

crazyguineapiglady · 14/10/2021 21:05

Surely turning up to the handover point and saying to the other parent "here is the DC, please come and take them" fulfils the duty to make them available?

Could you record the interaction?
Step out of the car and say to the other parent - I need to leave in 15 minutes, come and get DC - and then letting them do it (or not)?

Original poster
FoldedBlanket · 14/10/2021 21:08

I don't really get how all the responsibility can be on the RP and the NRP has none?

Can't change handover point to him collecting because due to past abuse I will not have him come to my address. Can't have a third party do the handover because that would just shift the battle with dc to another two people, and while a third party would be more supportive as pp have said you cannot physically force a very very determined 10yo to do something.

OP posts:
CloseYourEyesAndSee · 14/10/2021 21:09

Gillick competency is nothing to do with decisions around contact.
I've been in court where the child who was older than ten wrote a long list of all the horrible things dad had done and how terrible contact made him feel and he was still made to go. Judges are mad a lot of the time.

Chakraleaf · 14/10/2021 21:10

The court doesn't give a shit :(

wejammin · 14/10/2021 21:10

Hi, family lawyer here, the difficulty is that it all depends on the context in which the original order was made. Every family is different and there's no blanket rule. If contact is being frustrated every week by a child who is in distress, the binary approach of the court is unlikely to assist and my first advice would be to consider some form of therapeutic intervention. At least in that case, if there is an application for enforcement, you can demonstrate that you have tried a child focused approach to resolve conflict.
Forcing a distressed child to attend is going to cause more trauma than giving them some time and trying to understand the issues.
Without knowing the history of how you got to where you are, it is impossible for strangers on the internet to tell you what a court may or may not do.

Pebbledashery · 14/10/2021 21:11

Then I think you need to apply to vary whilst still sticking to the order so you're not in breach. Don't wait for enforcement action.
Video your handovers, each and every one of them so you can evidence.

wejammin · 14/10/2021 21:12

In very basic terms though, "make the child available" means demonstrate that you are doing what is reasonable to comply with the order.

Swipe left for the next trending thread