Who should we leave our DC to in the event of our early deaths?

[Cardamonbun]

DH and I are attempting to update our wills but this is our stumbling block. We are 45 and 50 with a nearly 10 yo and 7 yo. I have had two friends get terminal illnesses and have to confront the possibility this could happen to one or both of us or that we could die in an accident.

I am truly torn about who I should nominate as legal guardians for the DCs. They have a range of people who love them but no close relatives in under a 20 hour flight and no obvious legal guardians that could help keep life as close to normal as possible.

We come from abroad but have lived here for 20 years. Relatives are all Down Under. Our youngest has barely any memory of our home country and I have no family left there now. The eldest some what idolises the home country but absolutely loves and lives for his school. I would love to keep him at his school as I feel tearing him away from it would compound his grieving.

These are the options in no particular order. All have expressed willingness to have them but that’s not really been tested.

1. Our neighbour who has been like an aunt to them and has been v hands on. She has grown up kids who pay them some attention. Problem is, she has a long term illness (MS) and is in her early 60s. She also disapproves of our choice of schools for them (one is at a private school, the other will soon go too). The positive is that they could stay in our house or at least on the same street and continue with their education and to see their friends.

1. DSis who lives an hour’s drive away, early adult DC. She would have been the obvious choice two years ago but has become estranged after a family death and her subsequent awful, toxic treatment of others including financial abuse. I loved her but she has become unrecognisable and eaten up by bitterness. While she has loved our DC, I fear she is unstable and could become a malign influence on them.

1. Another DSis, 50, no children and not cut out for them, lives Down Under in a small flat and would not compromise on her lifestyle. Loves DC but no temperament for them. Only bonus is DM would be nearby so could enjoy her GC for last years of her life (if it happened soon).

1. DSis in law and brother in law. 50s, very fit, no kids by choice, live Down Under. Wonderful people but DSis is quite stern. Con would be the massive culture shock for two kids coming from London as they live in a v provincial town at the other end of the world. Could at least get to know other cousins in other region, four hours away. (Sadly that uncle is not an option as he has just entered a new blended family and already has a complicated set up and is stretched to capacity).

1. Godmother. Friend who is 50, no D.C. Busy career and social life but good with kids inc her nieces and nephews and always pays attention to ours. Lives about an hour away but at least in same city.

The older they get, the harder it would be to uproot them to the other side of the world but that is where their blood relatives are.

Would social services simply decide who gets them? Or put them in the care system god forbid?

How do you decide how much cash to give the person who gets them? Obviously we would leave more than enough to cover all schooling but who gets the house/property and assets? The D.C. or the person taking them on or is it split? How do you work out fair proportions?

Wonder if anyone has had relatives in this position and how much upheaval there was for D.C. if they had to move continents.

Yes we need to speak to solicitors and again to possible guardians but DH is dismissing all of this hence I’m seeking other perspectives.

Ideally we would have relatives who would move into our house or nearby and keep them at the same schools with the same friends and activities but we don’t have that.

it's good to discuss this.

in our case we have split guardianship and residency.
my sister would be legal guardian and my brother takes in the dc.
this is for least disruption (brother could move into our house) for dc and suits my siblings skills best.

Godmother, with everything left in trust to the children and which can be spent on raising them (including housing, schooling etc).

In our case, my childless brother offered to be guardian and we’ve taken him up on that in our wills.

It’s such a hard decision isn’t it. We’ve put off doing our wills because of this question of guardian and I feel the same as you. We’re down under with all blood relatives back in the uK . I would want 10 year old to stay in her lovely local school with all her friends rather than have to adapt to the other side of the world..It sounds like you have a good option of the godmother .

Godmother definitely. And if you can enough money available for boarding school to be an option if the kids are teens and they all agree that’s best.

Godmother. My estate will be managed by my solicitor if I die before my children are 18. He will ensure that my sister (in my case) will be financially compensated so she isn't out of pocket. The reminder will remain in trust until my children turn 21 or 25, depending on how sensible my sister and the solicitor think they are! It will be split evenly at that point.

Honestly OP, it's quite a common thing to do and any family solicitor should be able to set it up for you. Hope your friend says yes

We agonised over this issue for so long that by the time we got around to making our wills our eldest child was old enough to be the legal guardian for his siblings!

What lucky children to have so many options!

They are truly blessed to have so many people who would want and love them! I

We have been agonising over the exact same issue for months! We have decided on godmother, who is in our home country (i.e. not where we live with the children but where all the rest of our families are). When we asked her, it was important she was willing to maintain and facilitate contact with the grandparents, as they are a big part of children's lives and vice versa. But we are totally stuck on how to manage the finances. Life insurance will pay mortgage off, so there will be the house as an asset and each of our pensions has a life assurance pay off, approx 100k each. I am thinking of putting in the will that the cash payment from the pension goes directly to the guardian and the house goes to the children. I don't know if this is a reasonable plan, I so hope it will never have to be played out!

[quote Cardamonbun]@helpfulperson. Really? I had no idea. I only thought SS would step in if we had not nominated someone or if it was challenged in court. Wonder if they still have a preference for blood relatives.[/quote]
They’ll give preference to whoever and whatever is most suitable for the DC at the time, if it ever happens.

If you think about it, you’re trying to express a preference (and that’s all you can legally do as PP said) that covers all ages and circumstances that might occur in the next - what - decade?

A family court would have the huge advantage of knowing the ages, and the exact circumstances if they had to make a ruling.

That said, I doubt an international move would be likely to be considered in their best interests. Look at the Geldof- Hutchence case, for example.

We took out a life insurance which will pay out a monthly sum until youngest DC is 21. It's enough to pay boarding school fees in the event it's too much for family to have them full time.

Monies should be in trust for the upkeep and benefit of your children. You then appoint trustees for the trust with control over decision making in the best interests of the children. You can have one or many trustees. Even if a person has guardianship it doesn't mean the child needs to reside with them - they select the best interests of the kids, you can state your preferences like - en famille but it has to be what works for the children in their circumstances.

I would go and see a solicitor as life outside your immediate family does seem a little complex

oh and it is legal for trustees and guardians and carers to be paid from the Trust as well, it obviously just needs setting up right

My mum and my best friend are named as my children's guardians in the event of my death. Both very different people with different strengths and flaws. I know between the two of them they would, if necessary, work together to give my children what they need.

There is so much great advice here. It has made me think though, that although the godmother on paper is the best fit, the upheaval to her life would be immense. I need a serious conversation with her. Do I ask her straight out or ask for her advice about who to leave the kids to and see whether she volunteers?

I think relatives on both of our sides would be utterly shocked that we had not considered them. They do not know the godmother, who is mainly my friend. I should add that she has blood nieces and nephews who she obviously dotes on and holidays with ahead of our children (understandably). Perhaps I am not very strategic. Many people I know pick godparents who are 'important' and can help their kids prosper. But when I was thinking of a godparent for my first born, I thought of her as she is the kindest person I know and I would like my dc to have that value.

Lastly, does anyone know of any nurturning but still reasonably academic boarding school that would take both girls and boys and would appease my inner tiger mum from beyond the grave?

Just checking you're both well and healthy, OP? I'd like to be reassured after all this!!

Surprised so many people are saying godmother. I would only select a friend in very rare circumstances if they had children around same age and were already part of child's daily life in a family like relationship... and it wouldnt change their life significantly.

Family is much more likely to significantly change their lifestyle in this situation.

I know this won't be a popular opinion but I also think potential for abuse is lower as well.

International move would be great for them. It's Australia it's not like you're moving them to a violent country with low economic opportunity. Violence and opportunity levels are comparable. Values are similar.

@Cardamonbun You cannot just speak to her about it and HOPE she suggests herself. You need to ask her. She may not feel blatantly secure to put herself forward!

Our Wills were set out that the children went to "X" relative but "X" relative could approach the Trustees/Executors if they needed money. And by needing money, I mean for a bigger house to accommodate the DC, money for all sorts of things. The residue would be split amongst the DC once they ALL reached 21.

You need to ask OP and make sure she realises it’s the conversation that will decide the will. Don’t let her think it’s just musings.

It’s such a difficult thing to think about.

I automatically think my sister but actually she’s childless and either doesn’t want her own or if she does she wouldn’t want my ‘pre-loved’ ones in on the deal too. My SIL would be rubbing her hands together at the thought of getting her mitts on them.

Your situation is tricky. Would your Mum move over from Oz? I almost feel that would be better than the godmother. Although is your Mum elderly?

@Cardamonbun you need to ask to have a serious conversation with her, then in that conversation tell her you are drafting your wills on x date and that you need to know by then. Don't make her make a snap decision in the pressure of the conversation, but have a definite deadline. If she knows the people that are terminally ill in your social circle, it could be a segue into the conversation... XYZ's diagnosis has made us realise we need to think about our own circumstances...

I would also suggest approaching your other relatives as well e.g. the brother-in-law in Aus and having a serious conversation with them. Dear XX we are in the process of estate planning and want to talk to you about what would happen to X and Y if the worst occurred (don't be alarmed we are all well) etc etc.

I did suggest the godmother and written down in your original post she seems like the best option but in real life it may be different. You have the benefit of knowing a lot more about every person involved than anyone responding could ever know!

I also asked about boarding in my response but only because you were talking about how much you eldest loved his school and I meant boarding at his current school to enable him to remain a pupil there. If you would want your children to move to a more nurturing boarding school, at that point without the advantage of staying in a familiar environment I would possibly be suggesting relatives in Australia, who may be a better fit overall and more able to manage taking on the care of the children if it wasn't 24/7 (i.e. if the kids boarded or flex-boarded in Aus). And who also, as relatives, may be more willing and able to step up when the chips are down.

God willing all your arrangements will never be needed!

Staying at schools where they are happy and settled, with teachers who know them and friends to support them would be a priority.
Moving to a new school / college or area and making new friends while recently bereaved is very difficult indeed... I know from personal experience.

Reading with interest from a different perspective. My sister in law is terminally ill, leading to lots of financial and legal decision making. My brother has asked us if we would step in if he was to die following her death. Raised so many questions for us, what I thought was an automatic "yes" has actually got to be a really wide discussion across SIL family and my many (7 in many countries!) siblings, there are so, so many "what if" scenarios. It's actually keeping me up at night as it raised that we are anticipated financial guardian for another nephew (agreed 13 yrs ago before I had kids) and to my DHs sister and husbands young kids, we would be nominated guardian. I joked they could no longer travel in a plane all together!

Sorry for your experience @Silveroriole. Thank you for your advice - I agree x

@Mimmi78 I’m so sorry to hear about your SIL - that’s horrendous. Sending you and your family 💐. You must be super impressive for all these people to nominate you as the guardian. Perhaps stop being so responsible!

I gently raised the subject with the godmother and before I could finish the sentence she said ‘You know I would have them don’t you.’ She also insists she wouldn’t want to send ‘orphans’ to boarding school but we shall see. Thanks for all your advice and for helping me force the issue! X

Another vote for godmother. Generally I really do think things are better off kept in the family but your various relatives aren't suitable for obvious reasons. In my own family we have nominated family friends rather than relatives for good reasons. I know of another family where the godmother was nominated rather than blood relatives. It is good that there is already an "official" relationship IMO.