Who should we leave our DC to in the event of our early deaths?

[Cardamonbun]

DH and I are attempting to update our wills but this is our stumbling block. We are 45 and 50 with a nearly 10 yo and 7 yo. I have had two friends get terminal illnesses and have to confront the possibility this could happen to one or both of us or that we could die in an accident.

I am truly torn about who I should nominate as legal guardians for the DCs. They have a range of people who love them but no close relatives in under a 20 hour flight and no obvious legal guardians that could help keep life as close to normal as possible.

We come from abroad but have lived here for 20 years. Relatives are all Down Under. Our youngest has barely any memory of our home country and I have no family left there now. The eldest some what idolises the home country but absolutely loves and lives for his school. I would love to keep him at his school as I feel tearing him away from it would compound his grieving.

These are the options in no particular order. All have expressed willingness to have them but that’s not really been tested.

1. Our neighbour who has been like an aunt to them and has been v hands on. She has grown up kids who pay them some attention. Problem is, she has a long term illness (MS) and is in her early 60s. She also disapproves of our choice of schools for them (one is at a private school, the other will soon go too). The positive is that they could stay in our house or at least on the same street and continue with their education and to see their friends.

1. DSis who lives an hour’s drive away, early adult DC. She would have been the obvious choice two years ago but has become estranged after a family death and her subsequent awful, toxic treatment of others including financial abuse. I loved her but she has become unrecognisable and eaten up by bitterness. While she has loved our DC, I fear she is unstable and could become a malign influence on them.

1. Another DSis, 50, no children and not cut out for them, lives Down Under in a small flat and would not compromise on her lifestyle. Loves DC but no temperament for them. Only bonus is DM would be nearby so could enjoy her GC for last years of her life (if it happened soon).

1. DSis in law and brother in law. 50s, very fit, no kids by choice, live Down Under. Wonderful people but DSis is quite stern. Con would be the massive culture shock for two kids coming from London as they live in a v provincial town at the other end of the world. Could at least get to know other cousins in other region, four hours away. (Sadly that uncle is not an option as he has just entered a new blended family and already has a complicated set up and is stretched to capacity).

1. Godmother. Friend who is 50, no D.C. Busy career and social life but good with kids inc her nieces and nephews and always pays attention to ours. Lives about an hour away but at least in same city.

The older they get, the harder it would be to uproot them to the other side of the world but that is where their blood relatives are.

Would social services simply decide who gets them? Or put them in the care system god forbid?

How do you decide how much cash to give the person who gets them? Obviously we would leave more than enough to cover all schooling but who gets the house/property and assets? The D.C. or the person taking them on or is it split? How do you work out fair proportions?

Wonder if anyone has had relatives in this position and how much upheaval there was for D.C. if they had to move continents.

Yes we need to speak to solicitors and again to possible guardians but DH is dismissing all of this hence I’m seeking other perspectives.

Ideally we would have relatives who would move into our house or nearby and keep them at the same schools with the same friends and activities but we don’t have that.

Godmother!

Thanks @StealthPolarBearStealth! Actually haven’t had ‘that’ talk with her for a few years! Everyone else on that list would be v surprised by it. Godmother had the option of IVF/donor sperm but didn’t take it as she felt she was too old a few years ago and wasn’t sure about impact on her life. She also could have been at the top of a potential adoption list due to not enough people from her background coming forward to adopt. I would slightly worry about how she would embrace looking after kids who are no longer babies/toddlers (heck they could be teens by then!) At least we can reminisce about ‘when they were cute’ but having older kids thrusted on you if you’ve sidestepped having any is a big ask. She doesn’t like change. She has a very big, exciting career and is rightly protective of it.
She is however one of the kindest people I know.

You can leave your children to anyone. They arent possessions. You can nominate your preference but ultimately it will be social services who make the decision.

Godmother

@helpfulperson. Really? I had no idea. I only thought SS would step in if we had not nominated someone or if it was challenged in court. Wonder if they still have a preference for blood relatives.

Definitely the godmother. The rest sound awful tbh, sorry.

Ultimately social services would decide, nominating a person (the last option seems best to me) doesn't commit them but means they are on social services radar should something happen to both of you at the same time. Getting your wills sorted is more important and I suggest in the unlikely event of you both dying at the same time, the children's money is placed in trust until ideally 21 or 25, traumatised teens are not likely to be sensible at 18, (personal experience). Remember loosing both parents is very unlikely so please don't loose sleep over it. Also at the ages they are now and certainly as they get older, they would be part of the process, consulted on their wishes

I would go god mother too. I was in a similar position, only relative we felt could look after our two refused when asked, leaving us stumped. Its actually become an easier decision now and I must get round to sorting it. My mother who we had felt would be too old to be faced with the burden of young children we feel would now be the best option, my eldest is 13 and youngest is 10 so actually will be able to be a practical support and don't need the exhausting physical care they once did.

Fingers crossed at least one of us gets through the next 8 years though.

With regards to money you can appoint a trustee for your estate who is separate to the carer, they can then make decisions about releasing money on your children's behalf until they are adults.

How do you work out how much to allocate to the legal guardian (apart from school fees etc). Obviously they are not doing it for £ but there has to be some compensation for the burden on them that will inevitably impinge on their freedom/career/social life/travel plans?

It's a hard thing to think about but it is a worthwhile consideration. Hopefully your emergency plans will never need to be used.

The first thing to think about is your life insurance. This should ease the financial considerations about your children, for example insurance that will pay out school fees.

My understanding is that you as the mother do not need you husband's permission to appoint a testamentary guardian. So you should list one when you update your will even if your DH keeps his head buried in the sand. In the UK, a testamentary guardian only takes over once both parents are dead (if both have parental responsibility) so it would have no effect if your DH outlived you. But if you don't name anyone, your children's guardianship may be decided by a local authority or court.

The obvious choice from your list is the children's godmother (#5). #2 and #3 and no-goes except as absolute last resort. #4 I think is next best after godmother but such a change to move over there. I would speak seriously to your children's godmother, say you are updating your wills, and ask if she would be willing. If yes, you could ask to discuss other details e.g. would the children go to her, or would she move into your house? This might change depending on age, e.g. if something dreadful happened this year they might go to her, but if your youngest was halfway through year 12 she might move to yours for eighteen months. you might find a shared arrangement more feasible than you think, e.g. the children stay in the UK with a guardian but (covid permitting) visit Australia every summer holiday.

By the way, does your older child's school have any boarding provision? That way they could stay at school and commute to their guardian for weekends or holidays.

Re splitting assets, my advice would be the house etc needs to be in trust for the children. You should have multiple trustees who are not the guardian. Money for the expenses of bringing up the children will need to be left specifically for their care and accessible to their guardian. If you have any trusts, pensions or existing insurance check that the children are named beneficiaries. I won't give specific advice on the finance parts as I am not in the UK and don't want to get details wrong, but I would say definitely set this out carefully when speaking with your solicitor.

I appreciate that these are difficult things to think about but it is worth considering them and making your wishes known.

Ok the thread moved on a bit while I was typing! I just want to add if you put everything in trust for the children, the guardian can apply to the trust to have funds released to provide for the kids. You can set out a non-binding letter of wishes to indicate how this money should be spent, but because it is non-binding it can be set aside if unforeseen circumstances arise. Alternatively, you can put conditions on the trust.

Technically in England I believe the guardian and trustee can be the same person, but I would not recommend this.

Agree with PPs, Godmother sounds like your best bet.

Also, thank you for posting this. We have a very similar predicament but no decent potential carers, you’ve given me something to think about!

Definitely the Godmother.

We have nominated two sets of friends, one of which I really don’t think would work as they are in a different country so
Would be the end of all DC have ever known.

As time goes by I am minded to add in a family member, as their circumstances have now changed since the original will was drawn up.

Wow, overwhelmed with the excellent advice. And also surprised (not in a bad way) that everyone is pointing to godmother rather than childless in-laws who are also great people. I take it this is due to the location as much as anything and the impact of uprooting? I think godmother would happily move to our house which much bigger and more central than her place.
DH is the only one with life insurance currently as I’m not working. I need to sort mine. I also wanted him to take a private one but he keeps putting off the health check the insurers insist on! I think he always thought our D.C. would simply go Down Under to his relatives but this thread has really given me perspective. DS school does have a small boarding element though it’s very pricy and most kids are in the senior school and from v wealthy Chinese or Russian families. Very different to the more ordinary working families who are day pupils. Let’s hope we don’t need to worry about any of this but it does give peace of mind to sort it x

Godmother +/- boarding school

Yes the godmother is the best choice. 1, 2 and 3 are definitely no. They sound awful.

I should also add, the neighbour really would want them.
She loves them like family (though is a bit controlling with us but that’s just my own issue with failing to establish boundaries early on). Her physical health is at times hit and miss though.

We left everything to the relative who would be raising our children as it would be very expensive to do. In your circumstances where the godmother seems the most emotionally available and stable option, you will have to leave the bulk of whatever you have to cover the childcare that she won't be doing. She will need to be the kind of parent who is lovely even they are there and employs an excellent nanny while they work long hours. Without that it wouldn't work. I wouldn't think about leaving children money as it's going to be so expensive to raise them

when they are there

You can't have the neighbour. They could end up in care.

We agonised over this for years. I would go for the godmother as it would mean the DC could stay in the city they know and hopefully remain at the same school with their friends who could support them.

Godmother. If she's happy to be named, of course.

the Godmother , or the closest family member who you trust to make good decisions even if they can not do all the care themselves but can ie with the aid of a nanny / mother’s help etc . If your estate isn’t large enough to cover those potential costs look into life insurance

Leave the estate to the children with a clause that money can be drawn down to cover their needs during their childhood . There is a very standard clause that covers this need - any decent Will solicitor will know what to put in . Do not use a cut price outfit or try and write this will yourself .

It’s very unlikely to happen so I wouldn’t get too eaten up with at , and if your options I would ask the Godmother ( option 5) . Our children are now adult but if we had died they were going to my sister who is a couple of years older than me and has never wanted children of her own .

Honestly I’d strongly prefer a blood relative in your situation. I think a lot of people when push came to shove would baulk at substantially changing their lifestyle for a friend’s child. Grandparents or siblings are, imho, much more likely to actually step up to the mark.

I’d also consider whether a significant change of scene might not be the best for children who had suffered a terrible loss. Keeping them at the same school wouldn’t change the fact their lives had turned upside down.