Future MIL lied to fiancé about the contents of a will.

[Thehouseofmarvels]

So first off I know we need to see a solicitor; only not been because of the cost but hopefully we can in the future.

My fiancé's gran died in June 2012.

She had three children.

She wrote a will saying that fiancés mother R could live in her house as long as she moved in within 6 months of her mothers death and kept the house in good repair and insured. The idea was that R could visit her brother J in a care home. Fiancés aunt S is a trustee with a solicitor from a law firm. R hates S.

R did not want to live in the house. So visits for a few days a year but likes to have control over the place. She does not visit J. We suspect that the house is in a poor state. R is nearly 77 and also has a four bedroom house, in a poor state. I'm not sure how she will cope with two houses as she gets older.

My fiancé knew nothing much. That is grand house had never been sold and there were some lawyers involved.

My fiancé is recently estranged from R and long term estranged from every other relative apart from J. the entire family because they are mostly extremely abusive. Fiancé has a sibling who has never worked and lives with his mother. A sister who is married to a multimillionaire celebrity and a sister who went missing.

R told her son my fiancé the will and the house had nothing to do with him. She banned him from looking at the will. My mum read in an article that you can view wills online so I found it last year.

When J dies R looses the right to live there and the estate can be divided at any point with 80 years of the grans death.

We are hoping to have children soon who will be beneficiaries.

The trustees S and the lawyers never contacted my fiancé. If my mum had not read the article on how to find a will we would not have known anything.

What I wonder is why the trustees might have permitted R to visit the house once or twice a year when the will says that she must move in within six months and live there or the house must be ' held on trust' which I take to mean the trustees would take care of it.

These are my questions:

Can solicitors or trustees ignore what is written in a will or a trust document ?

Are trustees of a family trust obliged to make all beneficiaries of a trust aware of their interest or can they totally ignore beneficiaries, not tell them of the trust and not give them any money?

Fiancés mother is toxic. She has two favourite children and fiancé was a scape goat. When she dies I do suspect that my fiancé will be disinherited from his mothers estate. I wondered if his mum could have tried to make sure he never found out about the trust so more money would go to her favourite children.

I have heard from a distant relative I tracked down online that the family trustee S knows the house is falling into disrepair so imagine she must have told the solicitors. I have not spoken to the solicitors but I can't see how they would not know that R did not live there.

I suppose the trustee solicitors need to be contacted. From my description does it sound like the trustees could have acted improperly ? It is a concern they may charge hundreds of pounds just to speak to them.

I also wonder what will happen when R gets very old as J is about 20 years younger. People with downs are living so long these days that he may out live her.

I hope people will offer some thoughts which might help in working out how to approach.

So this whole scenario was just you trying out a piece of fiction? Really? I think you might want to try a different career, your writing and storyline is all over the place. Also do some research (Mumsnet does not count)

Right well that's not really annoying is it. Imagine if you'd had someone come and poor their heart out to you to offer advice and you'd just used it because you can't road test your own story ideas.

@MaliceOrgan

Everything I have said is true.

Yes I have had an idea for a story. I really did have it during the course of the conversation. I didn't invent everything I have said.

However if it was not my fiancés reality and someone told me about it, I'd think it so far fetch that I might think they were lying too.

I understand if you don't believe me. I probably wouldn't believe me if I didn't know that it was really true.

Whether anyone believes me or not, I don't think it matters now, because I have had useful advice. The point about seeing if missing sister is known to social services and asking them to pass on a request for contact is invaluable.

Wouldn't be the first work of fiction we've had on MN.

Why don't you just apply for some money? What can it hurt?

If you know the sisters name and birthday you could sign up to Trace ID and plug them in. With luck, if she's using the same name, you might get a phone number.

Although they should have used Js inheritance to fund a lovely private home with the best care - not given it to someone else and doffed him off to the council.

@CorianderLord

Is trace ID an app ? That sounds doable. I don't know her birthday but my partner will of course.

@CorianderLord

Yes I think it's a bit naughty when people use trusts to avoid care home fees to make the council pay for it. I think people do it do avoid care home fees for elderly people too.

Fiancé can apply to the trust. When the house is sold eventually. Tricky though given how bullying and nasty certain other people are. Some people have advised to stay out of it and not mix with bullies, which is quite reasonable advice. I'm certain he was purposely lied to about the will, to prevent him claiming. We will see what he decides.

I suppose Js care home must be council but it does seem nice, it's more like a house. It's opposite a beach which is a huge plus. He seems happy. With all the unpleasantness and unpleasant people he's just this sweet uncomplicated person. I'm so glad fiancé has him.

You're getting half stories and tiny bits of information and want to just sweep in and fix a grown mans life.

It sounds like he is much better off away from his family, maybe a peaceful life is worth more than money to him.

As for his sister, your notion to find her and present her as a gift is romanticized nonsense.

He chose not to help his sister who was living on the street because his ex didn't like the idea, now you want to track her down for a family reunion. She has been let down by her whole family, and some random person tracking her down will absolutely not be the best thing for her at all. If she wanted contact she would find him.

Just live your life, be satisfied with what you have, and take the lead from your fiance on how much he wants you to meddle in his business.

and don't bother selling this as a story to someone because its shit and the lead character sounds like a gold digging battleaxe

Sorry op realised I misread, you're claiming you're op is real but as a side point is given you an idea for a story.

He chose not to help his sister who was living on the street because his ex didn't like the idea, now you want to track her down for a family reunion this is the point I missed last night due to tiredness. She didn't go missing when he was 12 and he had no way of doing anything. The adults in this situation made adult decisions. He could have helped her or kept track of her. He could have spent the intervening years searching. He hasn't. I think you have to accept that even if you can't respect it

I don’t have the comprehension skills for this. 🤨

I've skimmed most of the thread and I can sum up what I assume is going on.

House is in a lifetime trust for R's benefit. She can utilise the house and when she passes it is to be sold and the value placed in a trust for R's children/grandchildren.

If when you read the will the trust said anything like the trustees have 'discretion' or any variant of it, it basically means the trustees can do what they want with it within reason. They cannot simply fritter it away as they have a fiduciary duty to the beneficiaries, but they can also give the trust fund away in unequal amounts amongst the beneficiaries as they have total discretion. A beneficiary is not entitled to anything. They can ask and can also be denied.

If there is bad blood then the trustees will likely just give the trust fund to the other beneficiaries, which they are more than entitled to do.

I work with trusts and I would not try to work anything out myself as they are complex things. You need a specialist to go over it and they are not cheap.

Let it go OP. You cannot fight a trust unless you can prove the trustees are mismanaging it. Even then, the trustees can use the trust fund for their legal expenses so any action is likely just to reduce the fund to nothing and then you still don't get anything.

I just wish I could find her and tell him on Christmas Day I found his sister because I think that might be a present he would never forget.

I wouldn’t. I can’t see this ending well for anyone. He gave up on her; she had known problems and was homeless. He feels guilty. He’ll feel worse if something has happened to her, and even if it hasn’t, she may not forgive him for abandoning her.

As someone who has a fucked up family and sisters who were spread around in care, and then helped to counsel people finding their own relatives as a way to process it all, it’s almost never a teary Hollywood scene. There’s human emotions involved.

He’s 40. He has had every opportunity to actually look for his sister; and he hasn’t. That’s for a reason.

@ShellsAndSunrises

Ah I see yes you have to be realistic about these reunion things that's a fair point.

I have now written an 800 word piece of fiction. I have sent it to a magazine who published me before so I hope I have a chance. If not I'll send the story to all my friends as they are always keen to read my latest stories.

The fictional story is about a husband who has a wife who was adopted and lost her adopted mum as a child. The husband is being secretive and the pregnant wife thinks he's meeting an affair partner. He disappears then comes home with a woman. The wife looses it as she thinks it's a mistress but it's her biological mother who gave her up at age 15 for adoption, to save the baby from her abusive stepfather. Then comes the teary emotional mother daughter reunion which I wish was possible in real life between my fiancé and his sister.

To make it clear to everyone, above is fiction and imaginary just inspired by real feelings. Everything else is real.

Even if a teary happy family reunion is unrealistic in real life, between my fiancé and his sister at least I have made it happen in a story which is better than nothing.

People have said be careful with getting involved in any of this stuff and I have listened. I understand why people are saying this.

I hear you. Whether I can restrain myself from using things that have happened to inspire pieces of creative writing is another matter. Fiancé is also terrible for using real life as inspiration for creative writing, we are both as bad as each other. I think between the two of us there will eventually be some fictional villains bearing strange resemblance to certain unpleasant real people. I think you call that literary retribution.

If the story that I just emailed gets accepted I will get paid 100 pounds so wish me luck :)

So all in all have listened to all you posters..

Have realised best way is only to be involved by using events as a source of inspiration for creative writing.

If the piece of fiction that this Mumsnet thread has sparked gets bought by the magazine i just emailed it to. I practically owe you all royalties haha

Have you seen the trust deed. Do you know who the beneficiaries are and what powers the trustees have? It may be purely discretionary or may be that people have been excluded. Not unheard of in trusts. I work with family trusts and have done exclusions for all sorts of reasons.

If you’re not a beneficiary of the trust chances are you can’t know the details even if you put in a request under Gdpr.

So at the moment your partner can't access any money as none of them can untill the house is sold which could be years away and even then might not sell for much if its not being looked after now. Maybe he will be informed about what he's entitled to when theres actually something to be entitled too

@ememem84

I believe the trust document to be the will as it sets out all the terms.

It says that the beneficiaries are the issue and remoter issue of the testator. It also refers to R and her issue being beneficiaries.

Yes J might live for many years.

The problem is that R is nearly 77 and only goes once a year. If R becomes incapacitated or too unwell to go goodness knows who looks after the house. Before estrangement she was doing things that were odd even for her, phoning fiancé at two or three in the morning for no reason. If she ever went a bit funny as some old people do I guess the house would just be abandoned but I suppose that's none of our business.

The will says that in order to be able to live in the house for Js lifetime R should move into the house within 6 months and maintain the house and furnishings. And just you know., actually live there. None of which happened. I don't know how much maintaining goes on in her once a year visits.

It's odd to me that the trustees have ignored the rules the will. It maybe that we have to forget the whole thing but I am curious as to why the solicitors may have agreed that R only needed to visit the house once a year.

But either way best to just focus on maybe using the whole thing as a basis for creative writing projects and not assume we will ever get anything.

So a will/testamentery trust then.

There will be trustees. They will need to follow the trust/will to the letter until the trigger event at which point the beneficiaries will get their distributions.

I’ve dealt with these previously. Whilst the trustees should follow the will to the letter they also have powers to exclude beneficiaries. Although this typically involves amending/varying the trust deed.

If the class of beneficiary is so wide “issue and remoter issue” and not specifying people by name the. It’s more difficult and suggests that distribution is at the discretion of the trustees. Which is perfectly to the letter of the law. There is no guarantee that beneficiaries will benefit. They can ask (if they’re aware of the trust) but are not entitled to anything. And will not be entitled to equal shares.

Unless the trust deed says anything specific.

I’ve dealt with one previously where beneficiaries had school fees paid by grandparents estate only until the age of 18. Uni fees were paid only if they applied and we’re accepted onto certain courses. And only if they were at one of the top 10
Universities in the U.K. in any given year.

I never understand why people think they are entitled to things in a will. It would be nice if my parents left me something but equally if they leave it all to a cat and dog shelter, that's for them to decide. I didn't earn it and it isn't my money!

@ememem84

The trustees as a law firm and S a daughter of the testator.

The will is not being followed to the letter. The will says that R must move in within six months of the death must maintain the property and must live there in order to have rights to the house. The idea being that she would visit J because the house is near his care home.

R does not live there, visits once a year and never ever moved in. R has made it abundantly clear that she does not want to live there does not visit J.

You say that trustees must follow wills to the letter but I guess if R has refused to follow the rules they maybe just agreed to whatever she wanted for an easy life.

No nobody is entitled. Yes people can leave everything to the cats home. Maybe it would be better for the solicitor trustees to just board the place up let it be abandoned and say stop fighting nobody should expect an inheritance. If they made sure nobody got anything I guess people could not fight.

@ememem84

Js death would trigger R having to vacate the property if she lived there or at present she would have to stop going there once a year. The will states that the trustees must distribute all assets with 80 years of testators death.

So pretty much the trustees could refuse to make any distributions. Which would probably be best if people are squabbling and as you said none of the beneficiaries should expect an inheritance anyway because people should not expect one.

@ememem84

I just realised the poster above you saying best not to be entitled was not you. Sorry I'm tired, but same difference I'm sure it's the moral thing to feel or something.. I have seen people say that before on Mumsnet.