Would a Judge order me to send photos of my house to my ExH?

[NameChangerinDespair]

My ExH and I are in Court very soon for a Contested Final Hearing.

In his Statement to the Court, should he be granted permanent residency, he has asked that I submit photos to him to prove the home conditions. There have been concerns and SW involvement in my house but even they talk of "great improvement".

Would a Judge grant this request of his?

Tbh I think this needs to be one for your solicitor.

With the best will in the world, posters on here can only comment on what you tell them, and it’s very difficult to make a judgement on whether SS involvement is wrong or not.

If SS have advised your ex to apply for primary residency then clearly things are a lot more serious than anyone on here can judge.

It does sound op like you think residency will go to him, and your issue is you don’t wish to send him pictures prior to every visit back to you.

I would say from his perspective he is trying to ensure things don’t slip back, which is fair enough, and really depends on how bad it was and how long you’ve been able to maintain it in a suitable condition.

As time moves on, months and years then I suspect even if a judge orders it, then the need will lessen if the situation doesn’t occur again, it’s more that he’s thinking now you’ve done it and had to make an effort to do it, and had ss interjection but what happens when you no longer have that focus. Could it slip back?

Hoarding isn’t something I or most people understand, it’s a complex mental health issue, and I can see that simply clearing the home may not have Long term solved the mental health issue, it’s basically curing the symptom not the root cause,

Are you getting help in other ways to manage the hoarding urge and Not slip back?

@Bakeachocolatecaketoday that was an historic problem (and why SS got involved) and he is refuting that, a. it has moved forward much at all, and, b, that I have changed and can maintain it, even thought the Professionals involved with me have provided evidence to the contrary.

@Dyrne Their unethical behaviour seems to be completely irrelevant to the case, which I am finding frustrating.

@AlternativePerspective they have been cagey as to what they actually said. I find the timing very odd as, by the time they did advise him to, things had moved on so much and so positively. During the time I was working on the house, the Children remained in it with me: it seems very odd to engineer their removal (which would mean changing Schools and moving Cities, away from their whole lives) after all the improvements, improvements third parties have seen, and even the SWs commented on, not merely my own judgment.

@Bluntness100 the Section 7 has recommended he has Residency, though, obviously, a Judge has not yet ruled, they have to have compelling welfare reasons not to follow a recommendation. As I understand the process, I have to know what I want/don't want from contact for it to be discussed on the day.

I have:

1. opened up to Friends, Family & Colleagues about my issues, so they have not only been able to help i practical terms but they now know and can monitor me.
2. undertaken significant work to reduce the amount of stuff I have; I have not just tidied what I own but got rid of lots of stuff, making keeping on top of it more manageable.
3. undertaken work with a Hoarding Specialist, referred by to her by SS, looking at changing patterns of behaviour.
4. in conjunction with the above, undertaken on-going work regarding the underlying issues (such as loss of a Child and a marriage) which have been the triggers. I have Family Members who also seem to have a genetic predisposition to hoarding but it is under control, presumably as the known and related triggers for it to descend in chaos have not occurred.
5. I am part of a Support Group within my Community, who have been very helpful and am part of a long-term project the Hoarding Specialist is running with my LA, which is currently online groups, but will, in time, revert to face-to-face contact peer support.

Ironically, my ExH could have reduced many of the pressures by keeping to his financial and contact commitments, but SS have not been interested in hearing about these omissions ...

I don’t have the answers but tbh by the time ss are involved it is bad .

You talk about the stress of looking after the children it generally doesn’t get easier .

So yes as a parent I would ask . The fact Ss have withdrawn - would make me anxious that the problem returned .

I agree though this is one for solicitor who knows all the facts not snippets

I understand @Starlightstarbright1. I suppose I was wondering if anyone had been made to do that because it seems very coercive and open to abuse.

It’s an odd thing to request because as PP said you could just keep sending old photos of when the house is clean...

I feel for you. But is it in the children’s best interest to have him as RP? Because that’s what a judge will care about, as you know.

But sincerely well done on your huge progress.

It seems a really pointless request. obviously you would just move the clutter out and reuse photos of the clean houses.

Having said that and flipping this around, if my Ex was a hoarder, i wouldn't feel happy with my children going there, from a saftey point of view. In my head i am seeing homes as you would see on a tv show. I have no idea how bad your house was/is.

I am glad to see you are making really positive steps and getting help. Good Luck OP

Well, presumably the photos have a date stamp in their metadata but, if you screenshot and crop it, I think it is the date of the screenshot ... can you imagine if I moved in with someone and their house had to be photographed? Invidious ...

I don't believe so, @OhCaptain, but I have to prove that against the Section 7, written by the very SWs who have been sonu helpful as I tried to sort the house ...

*so unhelpful

Well, presumably the photos have a date stamp in their metadata

Which is trivial to edit (or remove).

Also worth noting that most cameras and phones also embed GPS coordinates into photos too.

Courts can order things like drug tests prior to every visitation. That isn’t subjective though, it’s a clear cut yes or no as to whether or not visitation can proceed.

Hoarding has a physical manifestation, but has an underlying mental health source. I’m curious if courts ever require proof of ongoing treatment for other mental health conditions. Something like, yes the individual attended 2 sessions in the last 30 days confirmation. That would be a definitive check as opposed to something open to interpretation. I have no experience or knowledge, I’m just wondering if that sort of approach might be better.

In the end op, I would do whatever your solicitor recommends and/or the courts require you do to keep up a relationship with your children even if it isn’t fair or logical. Focus on the big picture and let time resolve the small issues.

Faking the photos would be incredibly stupid, the kids will talk to their father, and it would be very damaging to thr op if she did such a thing.

Op. You seem to be doing a huge amount to improve the situation and should be really proud of this. If you moved in with someone else if you did need to give photos then I think it could be re assessed by the court, but unless that’s imminent I wouldn’t worry about that right now.

@Bluntness100 of course I wouldn't take any photos if ordered too, I think Inwas making the point it is a bit of a silly thing to order unless one can prove when they were taken.

@Purpleartichoke they can and do and I provided it ... not enough for him, it seems.

Op, honestly I think you’re doing a great job to come back from this and should really be proud of your progress. You just need to keep climbing the hill. And if you’re asked for photos, don’t stress it, see them as a way to show how far you’ve come.

There will come a time they aren’t needed, but if you are asked for them, show them with pride until then. They are a marker of your progress. And could even be a way of helping you stay in check.

I have no problem with visits from SWs or photos to the Court but he won't take their word for it ...