Verbal agreement to contribute to holiday

[emkana]

When my daughter was with her boyfriend we said he could come on holiday with us. He verbally agreed to contribute a percentage of the cost, and the full amount in case of separation.
He has now split up with her but is not willing to pay. Is there any legal
obligation on him?

Why does he have to pay more for not coming? Surely it's the same price??

I think you should submit a claim.

Depending on what the Ex intends to do work wise the last thing he needs is a claim in his record.

I’d spend the £30 and send it to court

If the OP takes him to court, he would most likely win. And the threat of CCJ would probably ensure his parents would support him financially making sure he gets proper legal advice beforehand.

By the way, those geniuses advising the OP to send him a small claims court before she files it — it can be considered harassment.

Who says? Why,

Citizens advice does

“When a claim is made against you, you'll receive a number of documents from the court. The first document will be the claim form. There will be a claim number on it, which should be quoted on any letter or document you send to the court. The claim form must be stamped by the court. If yours isn't, the person you owe money to might be trying to harass you by pretending to send you court papers. You might want to report this to the police.”

By the way, those geniuses advising the OP to send him a small claims court before she files it — it can be considered harassment

I may be wrong but I don't think the person who said this is suggesting that the OP pretends that she has started action when she hasn't. I think she was seeing it as a final warning that the OP is serious. However, before taking legal action the OP must write a "letter before action" setting out the claim and giving her daughter's ex a reasonable time to pay.

prh47bridge no you're not wrong.

I’m saying the idea that you send the paperwork without filing it as a way to show your seriousness can also be perceived as harassment and the advise - should you receive such paperwork - is to contact the police. If the OP communicates the way she has on this thread, I can see the other party arguing she is trying to intimidate a 19 year old who has so far been perfectly reasonable and has agreed to refund her the £200 he had agreed to pay. The OP on the other hand, claims the ex owes £850 oh no wait now it’s £1400 because they broke up.

the person you owe money to might be trying to harass you by pretending to send you court papers.

Pretending to send you court papers is absolutely not the same as sending the papers and explaining that if you don't receive the money you are owed, you will make the claim, which will get for the original amount plus interest.

In my single experience, the supplier paid up at this point in order to avoid the whole case.

Not the same as pretending at all.

@Nekoness it is only considered harassment if it is a ‘fake’ (unstamped) claim form. If you were referring to me as the ‘genius’ suggesting sending him the small claims form before filing it, I meant as @prh47bridge said which was to let them know that if they’re not willing to stick to the original agreement, they will have to take it to the small claims court. That isn’t harassment, it is giving them fair notice and a reasonable time to pay.

Cross posted with @FinallyHere!

@Namechange32H

Great minds 😀

No I wasn’t referring to you. I was actually referring to this one which suggests sending a completed form before registering it.

“notasportymum

you could try small claims court, fill in the claim form and before you register it send a copy to both him and his DM so they have chance to settle. If you don't hear back send it in, they may counter claim but that's their right, they may prefer to write it off and cough up. Beyond that, chalk it up to experience.”

I don't think your claim would be successful because you don't have any contemporaneous evidence (such as from independent witnesses). If you don't have your dd as a witness available at court the judge may well make negative inferences from that. If you do take her to court, how embarrassing for her to have to sit opposite him. Whilst a verbal agreement can be enforceable it also needs to be certain and that doesn't seem to be the case here.

The fact is even lawyers can't say with certainty how a small claims case will go. Our electrician sued us once and despite the fact that he genuinely didn't actually do the work he was claiming for the court still found against us for half the bill (doubly insane as he had either done the job or he hadn't). The small claims trials run quick and sometimes the judges make decisions that aren't backed up the facts. We could have appealed but didn't have the inclination to do so given it would have necessitated more of our time.

But I have seen costs awarded against a losing party where the claim was deemed to have been spurious so I would be careful on that. It's not always risk free.

@Cinnabin

51% comes from the standard of proof in civil courts. It another way of saying on balance. When counsel is instructed they have to advise as to whether this threshold is met. If it is, their opinion is that the claim will succeed, if not, more likely to fail.

So I don’t know where your law degree is from, but I suggest you dust your white book off.

It doesn’t mean 51% of cases win, just that on the merits of that particular case it is more likely to.

If you are going to take this in front of a judge, you're going to have a get your story more straighter than you have here, because what you've written makes no sense.

Firstly the trip was £1,400 including flights of £150 and an additional flight of £200 to visit family. The latter making no sense at all. A different holiday, a second holiday within the other holiday?

Then it changes to flights being £150 and he owing £850, so £1000 all together, that was the deal you agreed, but it's really £1,600 all together (you deducted the £200 he agreed to pay).

You later mention the holiday is an all inclusive, so if the flight is £150, that means that his share of the hotel is £1,350. That's 1/5 of the cost (you, your OH, your DD and your DS), so you are saying that the hotel only cost £1,350x5? Where are you going that the flights are so cheap but the hotel ridiculously priced?

Finally, if the significant sum is mainly due to the hotel, why can only he go? We know that flights are none transferable in most instances, but I've never heard of a hotel where you can't change booking names.

I'm wondering if it is a cruise. If so, the cost of one room for one person rather than 2 is usually the same cost, or just about, so it wouldn't have cost any less if he'd never agreed to go in the first place. I also believe that cruises will allow a change of name.

I'm wondering if that is the reason the family is refusing to pay, because his not going, bare the flights is not incurring any additional costs to you. In this case, good luck presenting your case in front of the judge!

@Rumpole - you're still wrong. The "balance of probabilities" test is whether the facts of the case are more likely than not to be as alleged.

A correct statement would be: there is less than a 51% chance that the facts are as you allege given the evidence you can provide and therefore your claim will fail

@cinnabin I'm not. Again - where is your law degree from?

Anyway, that's enough playing chess with a pigeon...

Rumpole I'm going to try again for the benefit of people reading this thread.

1. Civil cases require determining whether the alleged facts are likely given the evidence. We can in principle quantify this as the probability of the alleged facts being true given the evidence.

1. Legal action is risky, and the outcome is rarely completely certain. We can quantify this as the probability of the claim succeeding given the evidence and arguments.

The "balance of probabilities" test looks at the probability (1). Your previous incorrect statement referred to probability (2), about which there is no such test.

The latter making no sense at all

It does make sense

Holiday cost £1400 if he cancelled
£850 IF he came - OP paying a contribution

Second trip flights £200 if cancelled £150 if he comes and OP pay a contribution.