Stranger tried to punch me while holding my little girl!

[SomebodysSome1]

Hey guys, ok this is really difficult for me to process. I am so traumatised I literally am struggling with the idea of leaving my home.

First of all, I am a professional, I have a hella lot of confidence, stand in front of classes of kids (who are the worst critics) and have worked in Pupil referral units which basically are for students who have been kicked out of mainstream- none of the behaviour management Stuff phases me.

What happened to me on Tuesday has shook me to the core.
I have two small babies, one that is 19 months old, one that is 3.5 years old, potty training. I was with my husband in a Pizza Express in a known area of Town that is usually quite nice. A place I visit, I am local to, and a place I frequent with my children and other mums from school at least once a month.

I took my little girl to the little girls room in between starters and mains. I got to the loo, took her to an open cubicle and let her do her very quick wee. Was super happy she was having a dry day and told her so. got her gear on and walked out of the cubicle and bent down to pull her sleeves up. I put on the tap and a lady who was in the bathroom having just washed her hands and dried them came back to the sink, stood in front and started playing with her hair.
By this time I have picked up my 3 year old with sleeves up, tap still running from when I have turned it on and lady still standing in front (didn't even think anything of it, waited patiently and praised my childs effort for communicating with me for her need to go to the loo- we were having a full dry day!)
Now what happened next just plays over and over in my mind...

This lady, caucasian, relatively well dressed, looking at me intermittently through the mirror while playing with her hair and sighing a lot makes eye contact with me and says "Stop smiling at me you condescending B*", now I am totally taken a back, a little in denial and still holding an increasing heavy little girl I happened to respond right back with "Excuse me, what was that? What did you say" To which she.... turned completely and repeated herself louder and emphasised the swear word to my face... She has moved out the way of the sink, is clearly mega angry with me and I move over to wash my daughters hands while responding " Could you please not swear in front of my child"....

NOW THIS, this is what I cannot get my head around, kid in right hand wrapped around right hand side of my body as I am using left hand to bend down and wash her, glancing over at the woman intermittently.... this was her unbelievable response to a reasonable request....

"F off, You Fking shut your mouth" and then leaping for me, now my child is on my right hand side and she is standing by the door to the right of me, ergo, my fear is my child as she lunges over. briefly by a hair misses my face which she had a fist ready for!!! I must have gone into fight or flight, I was yelling at her to get away from me as I made a b-line for the door, ran out the corridor to my husband and was yelling "Theres a woman in the toilet who tried to punch me while I have a child in hand, for smiling!!" I must have yelled it over and over and begged the working personnel to raise the alarm and call the police.

Thing is... police eventually came when my husband rang them and the staff were good to keep her away from us. I was scared and shaking!
I don't know if it was adrenaline! I just don't know. the staff asked the lady to leave- she didn't. The staff refused to serve her and the whole while I just wanted the police to come asap. I was literally in shock.

Now police came and split up and one came to take my story and one hers. Now when they both came back to me, it seemed that the other lady has no priors (my husband, a surgeon was sure she must be on the mental health spectrum, was expecting the police to manage the situation). Turned out according to officers she has no priors so theres not much they can do. Erm.... what? My husband asked she be escorted to leave and they were making a case that its a waste of police time to log anything. WHAT?

Then after more confusion and conversation between officers, the officer who spoke to her seemed more empathetic to her as "she is quite emotional and has said she's sorry" Erm..... what?

At the time I just couldn't think straight but at that time my officer asked me what I wanted the options being they could ask her to leave or just relay she's had a word with and won't be bothering me again.... My husband pushed for her to be asked to leave to which my response and understandably was, if she gets asked to leave and is disgruntled she will wait outside for us and with two babies she could follow us to the car or something. I was still scared, of a middle aged woman who attacked me with child in hand- for SMILING!!!!!!

Now sitting at home and gathering myself! I just can't get over the way everything happened, how it was dealt with.
in the end the lady was escorted home and I was to receive a crime report number via text message later in the evening, although I should expect that nothing would happen or be taken further...

Text message never arrived. I am not sure what exactly is the response to the fact she can do that in a public place with someone she doesn't know and is carrying a child. It doesn't bring me much comfort and I want advice on how to a) chase this up and b) to pursue a result from this. I literally keep reliving it and it is keeping me up, I just am struggling with the idea of grocery shopping now.

I have tried to find advice. Where is the legal standpoint here? I am a woman of light brown/olive colour and I cannot help but think that had it been the other way around I would have left in handcuffs. I am so scared to take my kids out now and I just cannot look at middle aged 'nice' ladies the same. I never thought a middle aged woman could be such a threat. I am really struggling with it all to be honest.

Please help! any advice please.
SG
Londoner in Birmingham

Some people are just unbalanced and aggressive for no apparent reason, don't take it personally.

To be honest, I'm shocked you've made it to middle-age without encountering this kind of individual before. I can think of quite a few similar incidences including two actual punches from random women.

It does leave you very shocked and confused but there's not a lot you can do. Never occurred to me to contact the police, I don't imagine they could do anything either.

One of the women who punched me was heavily pregnant and suddenly broke off her argument with her boyfriend (presumably?) to enquire what the fuck I was laughing at? (Not her btw, I wasn't looking anywhere near her or particularly laughing either )
I just walked away with a large bruise to the face.

That’s appalling crocodile it sickens me to think of a child being born into a home life with a mother like that.

There’s too much to unpack here. If you wanted legal advice, you should have kept this as concise and factual as possible. Eg - why did you tell us your child had a “dry day” - what’s the relevance? I initially thought that perhaps you were maybe blocking the hand drier as you were talking, and that was your point of telling us this as maybe the woman got annoyed, but no? Be more succinct.

You don’t have many options legally. Your civil action is limited as you have no damages, aside from possibly angling for compensation for distress (which wouldn’t go anywhere.)

In terms of criminal action, you’re stuck if the police don’t want to act; they tend to not have the resources to act on low level offences and tend to prioritise their staff hours on crimes that will lead to conviction/custodial sentences. I would write down the events up to the altercation (clearer than you have here). Go to your GP if you’re injured or mentally unwell as your medical record is evidence. If you see her again and think you’re at risk of assault, call the police.

In a situation like this where the altercation was relatively minor long term, I think I would have taken her photo & posted on social media. Someone online would probably recognise her, hopefully her employer!

a surgeon was sure she must be on the mental health spectrum
This statement does not come off well. A surgeon is not a mental health practitioner nor has he even evaluated her professionally. If she does have mental health concerns, chances are that the police are more likely to let her off with a warning due to essentially her diminished responsibility and the fact that this was minor in the grand scheme and a one-off

"I suspect you ooze privilege "

And...?

Do you have a sliding scale where at some point hitting someone holding their child becomes acceptable?

Tbh you got more from the police than I would have expected. I got less of a reaction from the police when I reported a rape.

Not that that makes it ok. It sounds like a very scary experience and I'm not surprised you're shaken and traumatised.

The trouble is the police are spread so thinly due to cuts that it comes across to the public that they just don't care. As long as we have a conservative government in power it's not going to get any better.

Making threats is a criminal offence.

My point was that no one is going to prosecute this woman for telling OP to bascially fuck off in a bathroom with no witnesses.

Hi op,
Hope you are ok.
I think I would want the crime number that they said they would text you.
At least, even if only in a minor way, there will have been some record of the incident.
That, I think would be what I would chase up.

@FieldOfFlameAndHeather, yes I feel desperately sorry for the poor child. The bloke looked pretty terrified of her too!
The last thing I was going to do was get into an argument, walking away seemed the only option.

Another woman once slapped me because "her boyfriend fancied me" I still have no idea what he even looked like, never set eyes on the fella to my knowledge!

Some people are just bonkers and best avoided.

My point was that no one is going to prosecute this woman for telling OP to bascially fuck off in a bathroom with no witnesses.

She didn't just tell OP to fuck off. She threatened her and tried to punch her. Those are all the ingredients required for a charge of criminal assault. She also apologised afterwards, which is evidence on OP's side.

The point is that, even if she won't be charged, as a minimum the police could warn her and could possibly consider a formal caution. Once she is on their records she will know that, if she repeats the offence, she won't get the benefit of the doubt again. This is unlikely to be the first time this woman has behaved like this, and if no-one ever does anything about it she will carry on.

It is worse when you've got kids with you though, you feel so helpless. I remember a big bloke screaming, shouting and swearing in my face because he thought my buggy had gone too near his car (he was parked across the pavement like a dick and I was trying to get past). The older of the children I was with was really upset for a while after.

^ yep, this is a downside of voting conservative (if you did OP). Seems like you’re now on the receiving end. The persistent cuts mean that low level offences often just aren’t investigated as police prioritise serious crime cases and emergency assistance.

I also don’t think this will go anywhere as there’s a lack of evidence. The CPS will want a high standard of evidence and here there’s no witnesses/no cctv or phone footage/no injuries etc. This essentially has all the markings of a “no further action” outcome.

If you have the money, feel free to hire a solicitor and see what they advise. Hell, you could even chase a private prosecution if you have the money, but chances are that the CPS would take over.

@JudyCoolibar RE threatening/attempted punch; the police can’t take one person’s version as complete fact - there’s no independent witnesses here, so the other woman can lie about the true version of events or won’t admit to them, with the guidance of their duty solicitor of course. There’s no evidence otherwise so it will be he said vs she said.

How is the apology evidence? She could have said to the police “I didn’t do anything but I apologise if she somehow feels upset” and play it off like she only said that so she wasn’t forced to leave the restaurant etc. The apology doesn’t mean she admitted swinging at her.

The main thing is that the perpetrator gets enough hassle, to think twice before behaving like that again. That is, if she can control herself.
Police being called and being escorted out of the building may give her food for thought.
Although probably not worth paper it's written on, I would push for the promised crime number as well.

Sorry this happened to you - it must have been frightening.

Someone tried to mug my DH years ago when he was holding our infant DD. Funnily enough I posted about it on MN and got a good handful of snarky replies about privilege and deserving it for living in a gentrified area

I’d follow up with the police, preferably in writing. If they don’t want to charge they should explain the reason.

This statement does not come off well. A surgeon is not a mental health practitioner nor has he even evaluated her professionally. Before he was a surgeon he was a junior doctor and may well have done a stint on a psych ward or in A&E where you see lots of psych problems.

To be fair reference to both the OPs job and that of her DH has some relevance.

I cant believe some posters have been unsympathetic.

There are so many police cuts and MH cuts that there no resourses to do much. My friend was raped 12 months ago. The police was shocking awful when she reported it. They still haven't got the case ready for the cps.

Push for the reference number. They can at least do that

OP, I hope you and DD doing better today.

Absolutely go to the police department and file a report. As a PP has suggested write down the chain of events before you go in so you can have them handy and will be able to give a succinct and clear account of what happened. You may need to edit before you go in so that only the actual facts are presented. This way the conjecture will be left out. It is a definite fact that you were alarmed at woman's threatening behaviour and were concerned for the safety of not only yourself, but also your small DD.

Yes, the police are busy, but that should NEVER allow them to dismiss a concern of a citizen. The squeaky wheel gets the oil, as they say, so don't give up until you are satisfied that this complaint is taken seriously by the police...It is your RIGHT as a citizen so do not to let anyone talk you out of it. It may not lead to anything further but at least there is an actual record of a complaint against this woman.
We have many homeless people in our city who were given free reign by the police until the citizens started filing reports and demanding that law enforcement ENFORCE the law.
In your original post, you said you were fearful of going out as something similar might happen.

You have "tools" now to help keep you safe. i.e.Several PP have recommended that if you suspect someone is acting odd you should turn around and get as far away from them as possible and not engage. That is a very proactive way of handling the situation. Before your incident you never dreamed that there are unstable people today whose behaviour can escalate rapidly. Now that you are aware of this, that is another tool to protect yourself. Err on the side of caution since you have no way of knowing what is going on in someone's head.
Always be aware of your surroundings.
Also, it may be possible for your husband to file a report as witness of what happened after you came out of the restroom. Not sure about that though, but his account definitely should be in the report you are filing.
Our citizens found out that in order for the police to do anything about incidents the victim needed to make a citizens arrest first, then the police could take it from there...not sure if this was because the police had not actually witnessed a law being broken, but kind of makes sense. I live in the US, so maybe your town doesn't have this.
Take care and be strong.

Also, OP, maybe not a good idea to mention the officers' handling of the event since it really doesn't change the facts of what the woman did to you.It could put the police at the station on the defence. You are filing a report about the woman's behaviour not the police officers' behaviour.

@JudyCoolibar RE threatening/attempted punch; the police can’t take one person’s version as complete fact - there’s no independent witnesses here, so the other woman can lie about the true version of events or won’t admit to them, with the guidance of their duty solicitor of course. There’s no evidence otherwise so it will be he said vs she said.

How is the apology evidence? She could have said to the police “I didn’t do anything but I apologise if she somehow feels upset” and play it off like she only said that so she wasn’t forced to leave the restaurant etc. The apology doesn’t mean she admitted swinging at her.

Thanks mnthrowaway202020, that was the point I was trying to get across but clearly very badly.

I'm assuming the 3.5 year old can talk so I'm sure would answer the question did the lady in the bathroom try to hit mummy.

So yes there was another witness.

Did you read the link I sent you and did you finally get a crime no ?

Having a 3 year old relation of the aggrieved person isn't going to work as the star witness, the issues with that are obvious.

The op needs an independent witness, so no there isn't a witness.

It could put the police at the station on the defence. Putting them on the defence is good, the senior officer won't want an official complain to the complaints dept or whatever they are called in her force. I once got investigated because when I handed property back to someone who had been in prison, it was stuff taken at time of arrest, a matchbox with six used matches wasn't with the other stuff. I kid you not there was an official investigation and I was interviewed by a Detective Chief Inspector. Seriously am I likely to have stolen a criminals box of used matches? It was a complaint, he wouldn't drop it and it was investigated. You may or may not be relieved to know I was not disciplined.

A 3.5 year old for obvious reasons is an unreliable witness - she could easily have been coached on what to say, especially as she wasn’t immediately asked for her version of events. The child also isn’t an independent witness so again, any statement would be taken with a grain of salt