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Legal matters

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Can brother in law force us to sell?

258 replies

teaandbuns · 02/06/2019 11:51

This is long and complicated... apologies in advance, and thanks for reading.

My OH and I bought a house with my mother in law. We paid the mortgage, all bills, looked after everything including her. She provided the deposit through the sale of her own house. Her name was not on the deeds.

Four years on, MIL died. It happened rather suddenly, in late 2017. OH has one brother, resident in the US for donkey's years. They have never been close.

BIL wants his inheritance, which is mostly the proceeds from the sale of their mother's house, and is therefore tied up in our home. She owned about a 36 percent share of the place so we owe him about 18 percent of the total current value. There is no legal paperwork covering any of this (we did consult a solicitor before MIL died but he was making it all so convoluted there wouldn't have been anything left once his fees had been paid) but we are quite clear that we owe BIL that percentage and I don't think there's any argument on that front.

The problem is timing. BIL is well off (owns properties in New York), and as Brexit is obviously knocking the UK economy and house prices, we suggested waiting for things to improve before selling (he would of course benefit from any price improvement). He seemed OK with this at first but has since changed his mind.

We put the house on the market in March, as soon as we realised he didn't in fact want to wait. Things rapidly turned nasty (he doesn't believe we're really trying to sell and keeps suggesting we're up to all sorts, including having forced his mum to sign secret documents in our favour (not the case!)). We remortgaged as much as we could and released £60k, which we offered to give him while we try to raise the rest, but for some reason he refused that. (We owe him about £175k in total.)

He is demanding to be kept in the loop with the estate agents, to know about all viewings etc.

We are at our wits' end. We've never tried to lie or cheat. In fact we worked our bums off getting the house in perfect order for sale. There have been no proceedable offers, and all we're getting is demands to know when he'll be paid. I could of course show him all the emails I exchange with the agents but who is he - who stood back and watched me change his mother's colostomy bag when he visited while she was sick - to decide I can't be trusted and need to prove myself to him? It's bad enough having an unwanted house move hanging over you, plus the worry about where you'll go, without having this man barking demands and accusations from across the pond. You might wonder why if we have nothing to hide we don't just show him the correspondence - but I don't think it would end there. Judging by his behaviour so far, he'd be all over the agents, trying to get the price dropped and running the sale from afar.

We don't have much equity - the house needed a lot of work and we probably paid too much for it - and of course if we do manage to sell we will have to pay stamp duty and moving costs so we'll be limping off with not a lot to show for the last few years.

On top of that we'll be putting our eight-year-old daughter through a house move not long after she lost her live-in grandma - a major bereavement for her as she can't remember a time when they didn't live together and they were very close.

We put the house straight up for sale and have done our best. But all we've had in return is bullying, and it's making us feel like taking the house off the market.

My question is, do we actually HAVE to sell the house right now? The split is roughly 1/5 ownership to BIL vs 4/5 to us, so do we really have to do what he says and be bullied into selling at a terrible time? Even if we sell at the full asking price (which we won't) we'll be losing out a lot. Can he force us to accept a low offer or drop the price until someone eventually buys? What's the state of play?

At the moment we're jumping when BIL says jump - but is that right?

The estate is currently with a different solicitor who is looking after applying for probate, but she represents the estate (and both brothers are executors) so she wouldn't be able to act for us.

We have obviously reached a stage where we do need legal advice and will start looking for another solicitor on Monday. Meanwhile I wondered if anyone could offer their thoughts as I feel like I've read the whole internet and can't find anyone who's in the same situation as us!

Thank you.

OP posts:
Sunshinegirl82 · 02/06/2019 13:29

I think you need to consult a solicitor as a priority.

In these circumstances I think you are best instructing someone with a specialism in contentious probate as opposed to a private client lawyer.

eddielizzard · 02/06/2019 13:30

What written evidence was there of her loan to you?

I echo your and everyone else's thoughts: get good legal advice.

But I do think the proceeds of the sale of her house, if hadn't gone to you, would have gone to care fees and your BIL wouldn't be inheriting a thing. What is the care and love your provided your MIL worth? Your BIL didn't have to take any responsibility at all. He's showing no gratitude or care for your situation.

Seems to me he's a greedy, bullying CF.

So I'd get that legal advice, and if possible tell him to fuck off.

Time40 · 02/06/2019 13:31

It sounds to me as though the house is yours and you don't owe BIL anything - but please get legal advice, OP.

Fuck morally at this point

Yes, I agree with that. BIL sounds like a foul bully - and it sounds as though he doesn't deserve anything, morally. Stand up to him, OP. Don't let him bully you any more. Good luck! Please let us know how it all works out.

myhamster · 02/06/2019 13:31

I agree that you need proper legal advice. If the house is in your name, then I don't see how it forms part of her estate, but if BIL thinks he has a claim, he may have a point.

Only professional legal advice can help you here to clarify your position. It is great that you want to morally do the right thing, but you shouldn't have to end up homeless in the meantime.

If 18% equals £175K, then the house would appear to be worth nearly £1 million , is that right?

Yabbers · 02/06/2019 13:32

Legal advice is vital here. But I’m surprised he’s owe anything. My grandma gifted her children money when she sold her house. My parents got an extra share because they built an extension on their house for her to live in. In order for her other children to see any of that money when she died, it had to be written in to her will that they would get something back when my parents sell the house, which makes sense to me. Otherwise it’s just someone gifting money.

If MIL had gifted money for the cat home to be built, would BIL be going after them to sell it now? I can’t see the difference.

ComeAndDance · 02/06/2019 13:32

actually I agree that this is not your BIL inheritance. Your MIL made a mistake when she didn’t have her name out on the deeds or that money ring fenced when the hOuse was bought. It was actually a dangerous position to be in for her.
I would also imagine she knew well this meant she basically gave you that money in exchange of you looking after her. This lasted 4 years (during which I imagine your BIL didn’t hep in any shape or form). It could have been 10 or 20.

If you think this would be much fairer to give him some of the proceed, then fair enough BUT this should in your own time as it will be YOU giving him money.

RandomMess · 02/06/2019 13:32

With his attitude I'd tell him to jog on, block him contacting you by any other means than letters Angry

regmover · 02/06/2019 13:33

Don't hand over any money to him. Keep that £60k, at least for now! And then as others have said, you need your own independent legal advice. Don't engage with him any further until you have done that. Personally I think that morally he shouldn't get anything...

ChequersDog · 02/06/2019 13:39

What happened when you bought the house? Did she not have to sign something saying it was a gift and would not be required to be repaid? That would usually be required by the mortgage company, wouldn’t it? Which would make it extremely easy to prove it was a gift.

Stiffasaboard · 02/06/2019 13:39

Reply to BIL that as of this pint you are taking legal advice and the house is not on the market

Then do so ASAP
I think he is on rocky ground but legally he will be stronger the more times you reiterate in emails and texts that you will pay ASAP.

He may have a moral right to some money if you consider inheritance to be a purely linear and shared legacy but in terms of love care and attention you and your DD deserve the house to remain intact. You sound wonderful in the care you gave your MiL.

Inertia · 02/06/2019 13:42

I'm not a lawyer, and you absolutely do need one.

However, I can't see why you owe a percentage share of the total value of your house if your MIL's name was not on the deeds.

If MIL provided (say) £100,000 as a deposit, then you owe BIL half of that- morally, you only need to repay half the deposit . (And you'll need to see a solicitor for the legal standpoint!) The current value of your house is irrelevant, because that will be dependent on how you've maintained it, and property price changes in your area.

I would be sorely tempted to invoice your BIL for personal care provided to MIL over 4 years- that's probably approaching £100,000 if you look at how much professional care would have cost...

MrsBertBibby · 02/06/2019 13:44

Go and get proper legal advice. What the retired solicitor told you sounds like bollocks to me. In law, you and your husband own the house. Equity follows the law, which is to say that, in the first instance, the court will assume the legal ownership is also the beneficial ownership, unless proved otherwise. The rules of evidence state that it is for the person who alleges something to prove it. You bil wishes to prove that your mother either a) had an interest in the property by way of resulting or constructive trust, or b) that the money was a loan you owe her. It is up to him to prove this, not you.

It is a fiendishly complicated area of law, and if you came to me I would go straight to Counsel for advice.

Disfordarkchocolate · 02/06/2019 13:44

Is this your second thread on this subject?

You need legal advice, my thoughts are that he is bullying you while you are in a vulnerable position. The money seems to have been given as a gift in the expectation that you would provide care until your MIL, you have done this.

cardiBobo · 02/06/2019 13:50

The money must have been officially a gift right? Mortgage companies don't accept loans as part of deposits.

My grandmother gifted some money to her partner some years ago to get a holiday cottage in his home town, with an idea it would be left to her family after he dies (he has no close family). But I don't think any of us are seriously expecting that to happen, or would pursue it. I dont see how you can reclaim money freely spent while alive.

However you might have to pay tax on that gift as it was made within 7 years of her death and is over a certain amount.

crosstalk · 02/06/2019 13:50

OP move this to the legal board. None of us know the precise circumstances so any advice is alegal cheers at new word. You need to go to a solicitor, I think. Separate from the one handling the probate.
Until you are lawyered up do not pay any monies. If your bro barks at you again you can point out that selling the house which is your home requires fees and expenses and that that money (which should be factored in before his percentage) can't be judged or allocated until after you incur them. You might also work out the costs which would have occurred if you hadn't looked after DM. As PPs have said, record or screen shot all contact.

Mummyoflittledragon · 02/06/2019 13:51

Obviously idk the legalities and you had advice the onus would be on you to prove your mil didn’t expect to leave half her money to your bil.

However you have incurred costs and spent a lot on the house.

How much money did she actually put in the house? I’m assuming it’s gone up in value.

I would be looking to recoup a bunch of costs including mortgage, living expenses (food, bills, council tax, petrol if you took her to appointments regularly etc) and your mils portion of the associated costs to update the property before you give your bil any money.

He sounds horrible.

Durgasarrow · 02/06/2019 13:57

This sounds like bad legal advice!! If her name is not on the house, then it should be yours.

RandomMess · 02/06/2019 13:57

Presumably he would have to take you to court to actually force sale to release any equity he is legally entitled to. I think reducing your stress by blocking him is the way forward. Tell him to put everything in writing via email.

Get your legal advice and don't rush into selling its not a good time to try and sell and he may be entitled to so little that you can just raise a mortgage to pay it.

Thanks
OhDearGodLookAtThisMess · 02/06/2019 13:57

How long did you care for your mil? I only ask because my father is paying £6000 per MONTH for his care at the moment.

Factor that into your sums as to what he is owed.

Dippypippy1980 · 02/06/2019 14:05

Heavens what a mess. Your mum made an investment in your home, and her other son has inherited half of that investment. I assume you have taken robust legal advice and are content this is the case. The deposit could have been a gift.

This is a house worth around £900k. You bought it with an elderly relative, surely you thought through the practicalities of what would happen once she passed away.

I know it’s too late now, but you should have seen another solicitor to get this sorted at the beginning.

Brother in law probably thinks you want to keep your expensive home - copy him into all emails with the estate agent.

Bit above all else get better, independent legal advice. You only recently bought a home worth nearly £1million. You can afford proposer legal advice.

Drum2018 · 02/06/2019 14:06

Unless your mil gave you £350k when she sold her house, there is no way you owe him £175k. If she didn't have a valid will then he's entitled to half of what she actually owned when she died - bank account balance, personal belongings etc. She didn't own a share of the house as there were no legal papers drawn up to show this. She gave you money to buy a house. You could claim it was a gift. If there is no paperwork to show otherwise then how is your bil going to prove that it wasn't?

Morally I'd give him half what she gave you 4 years ago, less her living expenses for the past 4 years. If he's going to be a prick about things, then so can your Dh. Maybe that way you won't have to sell your home.

teaandbuns · 02/06/2019 14:11

Crosstalk - sorry, I thought this was the legal board. Others, we have put in writing many times that her share of the house is 36% and that he will be owed half that after her death. There was also a will (albeit seemingly invalid, and albeit drafted by me and OH as nobody else seemed to think it mattered) that states that she wanted him to have half.

We could have got away with pretending it was a gift to us but we have always wanted to be whiter than white. Now I'm realising it's done us no good whatsoever - we're being painted as villains anyway!

OP posts:
bevelino · 02/06/2019 14:13

OP, when your mil gave you the deposit for your home; and where there was an intention for your bil to inherit assets from his mother, the amount representing the deposit should have been protected by a Deed of Trust. You may be aware, a Deed of Trust is a legal document that sets out how much money has been contributed towards a property purchase, and how it should be recovered in the future. This allows the gift to be ring-fenced so that if the property is ever sold or one person buys the other out, that sum of money can be returned in full.

If there is no Deed of Trust the whole of the equity of the property belongs to you and your dh. Furthermore, there is no formal obligation for you to repay the money.

However, as you have acknowledged to your bil that you will pass on his share this can be used against you in a formal dispute because even though there is no Deed he has proof of his mother’s intention that he should inherit half of the deposit tied up in your home.

The only way he can force a sale though is by taking you to Court. However, the cost of doing so would be disproportionate to the amount of money in issue. It makes sense for all parties to come to a sensible understanding regarding the timing of the sale.

diddl · 02/06/2019 14:14

If it was a gift, wouldn't Op & her husband owe inheritance tax on it?

Zampa · 02/06/2019 14:15

My attitude would be fuck him - I'd not sell the house and he wouldn't see a penny

This. But you're a better person than me, OP.

Take your time, don't be bullied, ignore his correspondence if necessary, get a solicitor and get them to communicate with him. All cost should be split 50/50 including your legal expenses.

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