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Original poster

DH thought he had power of attorney for fils finances but he doesn't.

108 replies

MrsKoala · 01/04/2019 20:04

Fil has dementia and 2 years ago dh spoke to a solicitor about POA (I was there when we brought up the subject when we were doing our wills). It all went thru and documents were sent out. DH is adamant he spoke about health and finances (as we did when we spoke at our will meeting).

Now fil is in need of going to a care home and we told SS we have POA (also in the last 2 years we showed the POA to another solicitor when dealing with fil property, the bank and council and utility companies when dealing with finances). They have asked to see it and when DH showed it to them they say it doesn't cover finances.

So what can we do now? Fil needs his flat sold to pay for care and we have been using his finances to pay for things for him for the last 2 years. Will we be in trouble? FIl also owns our house, will they make us sell it?

OP posts:
user1487194234 · 01/04/2019 22:31

Take legal advice to check if it covers financial affairs or not
If it doesn't you would have to go a guardian appointment in Scotland,presume similar in England
If he owns your house then presumably it will be an asset of his and could be sold if care home costs require it

ineedaholidaynow · 01/04/2019 22:36

What documentation do you have? Has it been registered? Think you can check with Public Guardian.

There are 2 separate types of POA, one for finance, one for health. The health one only comes into force once the donor no longer has mental capacity. The finance one can be used immediately, if donor gave permission (has to be registered) or once no longer has mental capacity.

Original poster
MrsKoala · 01/04/2019 22:41

Yes, we understand that the house we live in is an asset, but the idea was always to sell his flat and use that for his care - it is extremely unlikely he would live long enough to use all of that money to require the sale of our house. What we are worrying about is how we sell his flat now with no POA? and if SS appoint someone else to take over the finances, if they will want us to sell 'our' house too all at the same time or whether he can use the flat money first?

We will speak to the solicitor tomorrow. Thanks for answering.

OP posts:
Original poster
MrsKoala · 01/04/2019 22:42

Apparently dh only has one for health. But thought it was for both.

OP posts:
Isohungy · 01/04/2019 22:45

Why does FIL own your house? when did that come about?

Thewheelsarefallingoff · 01/04/2019 22:46

Your DH can apply for Deputyship if fil has lost capacity, I would get that in process ASAP. May be worth checking with the OPG as to whether DH is already registered as LPoA, you need an OPG100 form to do this.

ineedaholidaynow · 01/04/2019 22:47

How come the other solicitor/bank didn't pick up it was the wrong one?

Has FIL lost all mental capacity now?

Ethelswith · 01/04/2019 22:48

I think you need to apply to the Court if Oritection, who can grant you essentially the same powers as having POA.

Get a solicitor to check what you have already, and asknwhat else you need apply for. It's a family friendly (though very red-tape heavy) procedure, so you can probably deal with the Court yourself, once you are sure what it is you need.

Care homes are used to dealing with people awaiting money to come through. So a way will be found.

wigglypiggly · 01/04/2019 22:51

It's nothing to do with social services take a look to see what poa papers you have, it will clearly say if it covers finances or not. There are 2 types of p.o.a. as pp said. Social services cannot appoint someone to act on his behalf if there is no p.o.a. and he lacks capacity, it goes through the court of protection and you can apply to be a deputy through them, it's all online . Does fil have mental capacity to make his own financial decisions, if he does and agrees to sell his house, pay to go into a carehome then you dont need poa unless he wants you to take over managing his finances. You can ring the office of the public guardian for advice and to check if either financial or health poa have been registered.

Original poster
MrsKoala · 01/04/2019 22:53

When MIL died 4 years ago he moved to be near us. He was still in okay health and wanted his own flat but the idea was we'd buy a bigger house with an annexe for him when he got more frail. He had a bad fall in December tho and he now needs 24hr care.

OP posts:
wigglypiggly · 01/04/2019 22:53

Do you have an old EPA for finances and a newer lpa for health, it seems strange it hasn't been picked up before.

ineedaholidaynow · 01/04/2019 22:55

Would a care home just put a charge on his flat to cover the costs, until it can be sold?

RosaWaiting · 01/04/2019 22:57

we are currently waiting for POA documents so I don't know what they look like

but the first thing that struck me is, could the person who looked at it be wrong? Could you get Citizens Advice to have a look at it? Just to double check before you go down a more complicated road.

i found the process didn't give much clarity on whether we would receive a clear one page document or what, but we applied for Finance and Health separately.

Is the POA in question very old by any chance - they used to be called Enduring POA I think?

someone also mentioned to us that we could get a simple one page thing drawn up at short notice but we didn't really think it made sense so just went via the govt website.

ineedaholidaynow · 01/04/2019 22:59

You get a full copy of the document for both sets of POA, not just one page. That is what we got for DM and we did hers last year.

They clearly state what they are for.

Original poster
MrsKoala · 01/04/2019 23:00

Fil has now lost all mental capacity. We can't work out how this has happened as we specifically said we wanted this financial POA as we wanted to make sure everything was above board before we started paying his bills and stuff. Everyone we have shown up to now has taken it fine. Then DH got a call today and it said he had the wrong one. And it appears that is all we've got.

OP posts:
RosaWaiting · 01/04/2019 23:00

sorry, my page hadn't fully updated when I saw your post

so are you saying you only have one, and it's the health one?

if your DH didn't sign separate documents then I suspect the finance one isn't there, so to speak.

Original poster
MrsKoala · 01/04/2019 23:02

I don't think DH ever read it. He never showed it to me and just took it along to whoever asked for it and they looked at it and said it was fine. We need to check with the solicitor tomorrow as I don't know how this has slipped past everyone.

OP posts:
JudgeRindersMinder · 01/04/2019 23:05

Go back to the solicitor who drew up the POA amd see what documentation and records they hold.

ineedaholidaynow · 01/04/2019 23:05

Can you trace back emails, money going out of account. You have to pay for each one, think it was £70 (although you can claim some back if low income). Or did you do it all through the solicitor? Can you check back to their fee note if you did it that way, it should state explicitly what work they did for you

ineedaholidaynow · 01/04/2019 23:07

Your DH would have had to sign each one, if he has POA. Were you put on it as well OP?

JudgeRindersMinder · 01/04/2019 23:07

I’m in Scotland so it may be different, I hold both health and financial POA for my father, and it’s 1 document which states what it covers. From memory it’s about 11 pages long

gnoomi · 01/04/2019 23:07

You can check and see if the other one has been registered with the office of the public guardian - even if you don't still have it, it might have been registered (this need to happen for it to be valid and useable anyway).

If not I'm afraid you'll have to apply to the Court of Protection to become a deputy.

Original poster
MrsKoala · 01/04/2019 23:10

I remember her saying there are the 2 types and they offer to sort both together. So when DH got the 1 doc he thought that was both together as that’s what we asked them to do.

I have no idea about payments etc.

I suspect they only did the one and we thought it was both. But I don’t understand how everyone else has not flagged it up. So frustrating!

Thank you for the advice.

OP posts:
JustHereForThePooStories · 01/04/2019 23:14

it is extremely unlikely he would live long enough to use all of that money to require the sale of our house

My MIL is now well in to her 80s. She went in to a home in September 2008, and we were told to prepare ourselves for her not seeing that Christmas.

ineedaholidaynow · 01/04/2019 23:17

Check with solicitor tomorrow OP, they should be able to tell you. Also contact Office of Public Guardian (you can google their number, or it might be on the documentation you have). Hope you can sort it out.

Applying to become a deputy is very time consuming and costly, so I hope you do have a finance POA in place.

If you have been able to deal with the bank, I would be amazed if you don't have a finance one (is it possible that you have mislaid that bit of paper or the bank kept it). Also I assume you will have details of how much money FIL has. Hopefully, with that information and a possible value of his flat, the care home will know they will get money eventually.

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