DH thought he had power of attorney for fils finances but he doesn't.

[MrsKoala]

Fil has dementia and 2 years ago dh spoke to a solicitor about POA (I was there when we brought up the subject when we were doing our wills). It all went thru and documents were sent out. DH is adamant he spoke about health and finances (as we did when we spoke at our will meeting).

Now fil is in need of going to a care home and we told SS we have POA (also in the last 2 years we showed the POA to another solicitor when dealing with fil property, the bank and council and utility companies when dealing with finances). They have asked to see it and when DH showed it to them they say it doesn't cover finances.

So what can we do now? Fil needs his flat sold to pay for care and we have been using his finances to pay for things for him for the last 2 years. Will we be in trouble? FIl also owns our house, will they make us sell it?

Yes there is the possibility he will live longer than 4 more years. We would sell up accordingly as that time approached. We just can’t do it and have the funds for him immediately now as it’s all so sudden. We thought the 4 years of his flat money would give us the time to move.

The care home have given us the details of a bridging loan company and want money immediately for his care.

When you saw the other solicitor about the property and they looked at POA, what sort of property matters were you dealing with?

My understanding is that the health POA is purely to say what treatments etc you will authorise. Nothing to do with any other transactions, so can't see them accepting a health one either.

I think you may have misunderstood what your solicitor said to you back when your DH first enquired. Your DH cannot instruct a solicitor to draw up a financial POA just because you thought it was the best thing and convenient for you. Your dad would need to have arranged this ( with your help of course) and your dad and whoever he decided to give POA to would have needed to have signed the paperwork. The solicitor would have needed to establish that it was your dad’s decision and that he was competent to make that decision before signing could go ahead. A financial POA is akin to your dad handing all his resources over to you and if you abused that position e.g drained his bank account, he would have no recourse to get the money back from the bank. There is ample information online and the “piece of paper”clearly states what is covered.
I just went through this with my mum two weeks ago (in Scotland) for both types of POA and my DH has had both types for his mum for a number of years. Luckily my MIL wanted to have them drawn up years ago as unfortunately she is not in situation where she can make any decisions for herself now.

Yes, we did all that. Had many meetings with Fil and drs and the solicitors.

When we had it done our main concern was fils health as the gp had told us with his dementia diagnosis it could deteriorate rapidly. Then the solicitors advised we do both types.

If your FIL has lost all mental capacity and needs 24 hour care, why are you paying for care? He should qualify for Continuing care funding.
www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/reclaimed-226559-incare-fees-can/

Good point soon.

It’s very hard work to get that funding OP but it is there. I assume your FIL has a social worker or someone similar. Talk to them tomorrow as well

Thank you. That’s interesting. When dh spoke to them about this they said he wasn’t eligible. I don’t know why, they told dh and he wasn’t clear when I asked why.

As your FIL obviously has quite substantial assets I would be amazed if the solicitor did not draw up a finance POA if they were doing a health one as well

He may not get chc funding, it's not automatically granted unless someone is in the last few months of their life and they are given fast track funding . He needs to have a financial assessment carried out to see what he needs to pay, a care needs assessment to see if he can get fnc funding contribution towards his care home fees. I wouldn't do anything until, you've spoken to the solicitor and his bank dont get involved in a bridging loan.

OP they will fight giving that funding as obviously it is very expensive, so don’t go round telling people about it.

One thought about the possibility of there not being a finance POA in place could be that FIL refused to have one, but I would still be surprised if there isn’t one as you can access his bank account etc

It’s a bit of a mess but not irredeemable.

DH will need to apply to the court of protection to become a deputy www.gov.uk/become-deputy - its pretty standard but I don’t know how long it takes.

Do you have anything in writing to say you instructed the solicitors to do Finance POA as well as Health and Welfare? In all honesty I suspect they will say it’s your fault for not noticing you didnt have Finance at the time the Health one was issued.

In the immediate term how do the care home propose your FIL can take out a bridging loan, as he doesnt have capacity and you don’t have POA? Speak to the council/Age UK/Independent Age about short-term alternatives. Is you FIL still living in his own home? Can he manage there for a few more months?

He has had the financial assessment and the care assessment. We recently had a 72 hr care assessment at his flat and within 12 hrs they had put him in an ambulance to a&e because he was violent.

Agree with @Soontobe60, I read that article and a friend has also managed to claim her mother's fees, she had severe dementia, and had a stroke so couldn't move one side and barely communicate beyond a few grunts most days, needed constant care 24/7.

I’ve just been on a page about deputyship and it says you can’t have it if there’s a conflict of interest like you live in a property owned by the person.

We tried to get chc funding or the terminal illness funding for DF. The day I mentioned it to his social worker, DF was lying in his hospital bed pretty much immobile, doubly incontinent, unable to feed himself, incoherent, mental capacity dropping like a stone and you could nearly see the cancer eating away at him. The social worker told me he wasn’t that ill. DF died 2 days later

If you want that funding OP you will have to fight for it.

Can a solicitor be a deputy instead?

That would be a good solution. If someone else could sell the flat and sort his bridging loan if we can't. Otherwise I feel we are in limbo.

ineedaholiday - that is awful. I'm so sad and sorry for you. For anyone who has to deal with all this stuff.

OP we were also having problems with sorting POA for DF, but his mental capacity deteriorated so fast we weren’t able to get one sorted. So I know what you are going through and I hope with all my heart that you can get it sorted.

You can do a Office Public Guardian search for LPAs (Lasting Power of Attorneys) online for health and welfare , and property & financial affairs and any deputies.

www.gov.uk/government/publications/search-public-guardian-registers

Fill in the form. They'll get back to you usually within the week with search results.

You should have got two separate documents. In England they aren't a single page.

An old EPA from years ago (which could only be arranged for finances) may not show up on search if not registered, as that old one needed to be registered when person lost financial capacity.

If you don't have any POA (LPA or EPA or deputyship) for finances, at this stage with a property to sell, you'll need to apply to COP (Court if protection) for Deputyship.

www.gov.uk/become-deputy/apply-deputy

If a CHC checklist has been completed and is negative, then he won't be eligible for CHC funding. Even then, if checklist (first stage) had been positive it'd go onto a very big DST multi disciplinary assessments so you'd know if that had occured. There's so much misinformation about continuing healthcare eligibility out there. A doctor decides in whether someone meets the separate (shorter) CHC fast track criteria. They aren't God like so sometimes their professional view turns out not to be spot in, however it's their professional judgement based on their medical assessment at the time.

OP you'll want to look up the local authorities charging policy information regarding properties. Type in the CC name and follow website, most are online. It should better clarify position.

Apologies, wrong link previously for OPG search

www.gov.uk/find-someones-attorney-or-deputy

Thanks for the link. We have left messages for the solicitor and DH has gone to the hospital to see fil. He hasn't eaten in over a week so I have no idea how long he can go on for. We wanted to get him settled in a home because when he is in the hospital he becomes violent and refuses to eat or hardly drink.

We need to know what happens to him while all this is being processed. I am hoping that SS have some kind of formula for when people are waiting for deputyship to be established, because until then we have/he has no money. DH thinks we will need to take out a personal loan to bridge the gap but I am reluctant as i'm sure this must be a thing they deal with regularly, so there must be a solution - maybe i'm being naïve.

I hardly slept a wink worrying last night. Thank you all for the excellent advice and support.

Once you get your answer back from the solicitor, and if you don’t have a POA try to contact Age UK. They may be able to advise you