DH thought he had power of attorney for fils finances but he doesn't.

[MrsKoala]

Fil has dementia and 2 years ago dh spoke to a solicitor about POA (I was there when we brought up the subject when we were doing our wills). It all went thru and documents were sent out. DH is adamant he spoke about health and finances (as we did when we spoke at our will meeting).

Now fil is in need of going to a care home and we told SS we have POA (also in the last 2 years we showed the POA to another solicitor when dealing with fil property, the bank and council and utility companies when dealing with finances). They have asked to see it and when DH showed it to them they say it doesn't cover finances.

So what can we do now? Fil needs his flat sold to pay for care and we have been using his finances to pay for things for him for the last 2 years. Will we be in trouble? FIl also owns our house, will they make us sell it?

Thank you for the excellent advice Bedhampton and everyone. I have read it out to DH, he is meeting with SS in the morning at the hospital, and now he feels calmer and armed with the right things to ask. He feels so relieved I started this thread and very grateful to you all.

It's horrible to have regrets like that ineedaholiday. When my grandad died the hospital did the 'Liverpool pathway' and we watched him be essentially starved to death. It was so distressing and we all regret not doing more. There seems to be no choice or dignity in death in a lot of cases and sometimes those terrible last memories can cloud everything which came before.

Gosh MrsK good to hear you're still alive!! How are your boys? And Dd? Are you managing any sleep yet? Very sorry to hear about Phil. Good luck.

Contact independent age, they were fantastic with advice when my Nan went into a care home.
www.independentage.org/information/support-care/care-homes/will-i-have-to-sell-my-home-to-pay-for-my-care-home-fees

Now according to this, you can't be forced to sell the place you are living in to pay fees, but that may only apply to council funded care home places, not private places. Have social services had any involvement?

@azulmariposa

I've advised OP to look at his LA residential charging policy information. That will cover it far better & more appropriate detail than generic advice organisation (I looked as always love a easy to read guide that can be used). (As someone who is in this legal field)

FIL owns two properties outright and has other funds. One you live in and another. Which one was FIL's main residence? Clarify that and you have a clearer picture we can ee
see. If he lived in a property separate to you, no disregards apply unless you have a legal caveat on property. I always think appmt for individual specialist legal& financial advice is worth the £200+ solicitor it'll cost when you need it most.

Not being forced to sell a property doesn't prevent a legal charge put against it if is public deferred payment funded . And having market rent also paid. LPAs finances have to act in Client's best financial interests.

That's not a bad pdf Azul , pretty good from most I've seen! 😁

Unfortunately it doesn't cover second property issues and LPAs in finances living in second owned property without legal caveats/ LPA diinace responsibilities (conflict) , which are both rarely explained in generic booklets - as such complex issues. So if FIL is self funding (& with 2 properties he will be unless CHC) I think OP is far better to talk to specialist solicitor for advice, especially if are considering asking Adults health and care (adult services dept) for any type of public funding, even if only a deferred payment.

If FIL gets full CHC funding, whole thing changes as non chargeable then.

As I said generic advice and individual advice from solicitor will be better.

Well saying fil owns our house wasn't technically correct I suppose. He and Mil gave us the money to buy it and fil's name is down as a third owner if we sell it. That was approx 3 and a half years ago. The SS financial assessment know the amount of money he gave us and see it as a loan rather than a gift. What we are unsure of is whether we owe fil back the amount he gave us or whether he technically owns 100% of our house and therefore gets 100% of the sale value (meaning if it increases in value does he get that too as an investor or does he just get the loan repaid?).

DH asked about the fast track assessment and they said he doesn't qualify as he does not have a terminal illness.

Contact the office of the public guardian that is where the lasting power of attorney is registered .
If one was made it will be on their records.
There used to be something called enduring power of attorney. But these have been replaced with the LPA's.

Is FIL's name on the deeds? By that, I mean, if I searched the Land Registry and downloaded the deeds, would FIL's name be on them as well as yours and DH's? If so, he legally partly owns your house.

If the money was only a loan with no intention for it to be paid back, why is he on the deeds? Was there a separate agreement regarding the loan and how it should be repaid? I would think there would be and FIL would have had to take separate legal advice regarding that (if he was still capable). I cannot see any solicitor advising their clients (ie you and DH) to give a third party part ownership of their house without writing to you about the implications of that and how any arrangement should be documented. If it was truly a gift, then there would be no need for DH to have a proprietary interest. At the moment, if FIL is named as an owner, then the house would be deemed to be part of his assets

No he isn't on the deeds, but we have some legal contract which says he has a 3rd of the next property we buy. SS just know he gave us the money as a gift and as it was only 3 years ago see it as a loan.

Ok. So if his diagnosis isn't terminal /end of life then fast track doesn't apply. Any illness could be decided as end of life progessed but is a clinical decision.

How did DH get on with his meeting with doctors/hospital SW OP?

It was a complete waste of time. The SW for fil was off sick again and someone who had never met him stepped in. The care home assessed him today and have accepted him and fil is on his way there tomorrow apparently. But I have no idea what the decision is wrt to paying for the care. Unsurprisingly dh is totally worn down by it all and now ill. He is dreading tomorrow, altho it's what he wanted, because he feels like its giving up on his dad. He says it's going to be like driving your favourite pet to be put down. DH feels so resentful to have lost both parents in his 30s and can't get past the anger and sadness.

Ugh. So it is as clear as mud on whether LA would offer a deferred payment. And whether there is updated CHC checklist done. Chat to.carrhome.about CHC checklist and their views once he's settled in as they'll have a view.

Worth ringing LA to ask again about finance side of it's a sticking point you have had clarified. Sounds like he went self funding.
At least FIL is going to a nice carehome near you that you chose. I guess you can take comfort in that and that you've done right by him, although it's very sad thing to happened to both DH's parents .

And at least you do have LPA finances afterall so can make arrangements.

Thank you. We have enough to pay for one month of fils care so need to sort a bridging loan against his flat while the sale is going thru.

Make sure you claim.higher rate attendance (£89/week) if not already. It's not much but if not ASD funded in a home he'll be entitled to it to help a bit with fees
I am probably telling you something you know already

'Haven't had clarified' I meant in earlier post above

Op, when mil went into a home with dementia, she owned a little house I’m sure that she was able to get a loan from the council towards the fees that didn’t need paying at extortionate bridging loan prices.

There was a rush to fill her paperwork in as something was changing about how the interest was charged/needed to be paid back so she managed to get the better deal, just. Sis was sorting it so I don’t know the specifics.

When fil was ill last year, he had a partner who apparently had poa and who was a very strange person so we weren’t overly involved but did a little looking into it - I think the change meant that they could add interest onto the loan as it built up as it was getting v expensive for cash strapped councils. But there was definitely funding there, even if you had to pay it back it was cheaper and less stressful than an actual loan.

We found lots of advice from Age Concern - there were lots of help sheets that sent us in the right directions knowing what to ask for/look for. However they had a help line too that others have recommended - if you can, it would really be worth having a look on their site and then following up with a phone call.

It might also be worth checking that the hospital are checking fil doesn’t have a urine or bladder infection as they can be easily treated but make people act out. Likewise that he is not in pain - another study showed that they often assume that you don’t need headache tablets or painkillers and sometimes the wildness can be because they are in pain but can’t tell anyone so don’t get the meds and then people assume crazy rather than tearing hair out in pain... very simplistic explanation but hopefully it sort of makes sense!

Sorry @WallyWobbles just seen your post upthread. Apart from this we are okay. The kids are doing well thanks. Can you believe DD is nearly 2 and half? She's chattering away and a proper little girl. She's still on the boob tho, but I've managed to stop feeding at night, so am getting more rest. Which has made lots of difference. (the drs thought I had MS because my sleep deprivation got so bad).

Anyway, we can't do deferred payment as fil has got more than his own flat as an asset - they see the money he gave us towards the house as his asset too. So now we need to raise the money ourselves to pay for his care while the flat is selling. Which is going to take ages as nothing is selling round here because of fucking Brexit.

The care company gave us the name of a company called bridgefast property services. Who appear to sell your home and pay the fees while they do it. I need to speak to them but I assume they take a huge % out of the sale. We just need to work out if it's more than if we sold it ourselves and then paid interest on a personal loan. The problem is a personal loan, if we took out £20k that would only cover 4 months and then what if it hadn't sold in that time?

Okay, after much ringing around we have compared all the options and decided to go with a quick sale (webuyanyhouse) type thing. They have offered 85% of the value. Which when compared to the loan repayments and all the hassle of selling it ourselves (given the market is stagnant) we think is the best option. It gives almost 4 years of care and in that time we can organise any costs by selling or renting our house etc.

My Dad had dementia and was hospitalised with a urinary infection. He never came out.
In hindsight I wonder whether he was put on The Liverpool Pathway. no-one said he was but there was no drip and no meals! They let me go in whenever I wanted so I could try and get him to eat yogurts etc...
I feel sick thinking about it now. I must have been so naive but I assumed he was being 'cared' for.

I am sorry redwood - I hope I haven't upset you by mentioning it.

DH has gone to get fil. He has just text to say fil looks really happy to see him for a change and he feels like a total cunt. We are trying to remember this will be best for fil and DH and the children and me.