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Pregnant after having child removed at birth

476 replies

Hannah1x · 17/11/2017 09:09

Hi all, I'm desperate for some advice and would appreciate feedback from anybody who works in social work, has experience in law or has had personal experience with dealing with social services in subsequent pregnancies after having a child removed.

Im 24 yrs old. When I was 18 I was in an abusive relationship with a man who had an extensive criminal past of DV. He was known to social services due to his first born child being taken from him and an ex at approx 1 years old and the child was subsequently adopted.

I was young, naive and didn't know all the facts - he hadn't yet hurt me by the time I fell pregnant and I underestimated the risk he posed to me. I had no family in the area and was very isolated.

When I fell pregnant he became abusive, emotionally and verbally. I confided in a midwife at my first antenatal appointment with my concerns about his past and how he was acting with me now and i was referred to social services. They were involved with me from being 13 weeks pregnant, visiting the home and asking me to attend sure start centre classes which I did.

When I began to worry about removal I asked my SW whether I could move to another city closer to my family to help my case away from the father and I was specifically told not to because it would 'disrupt' the assessment process.

I found my sw to be very unhelpful and at 36 weeks pregnant they told me would go to court and remove my baby at birth without offering any alternative intervention despite me doing everything they'd asked. Prior to the PLO meeting which I was prevented from attending (my then solicitor was not acting in my favour) I again asked if they would support me leaving the town with my baby and I was told no, stay, no final decisions had not been made yet.

I don't feel as though I was given any support or encouragement to leave this man throughout my assessments and I accept I could have upped and left but I was young vulnerable isolated and very much under his control.

When baby was born at 38 weeks it was a Saturday, out of hours social services arrived at the hospital and told me they'd apply to court on Monday to remove my son. Foolishly, out of panic, I left the hospital with my son and took him home against their instructions. They told the hospital to call the police who came and got us, returning us to the ward where we had to stay until the social worker came to remove him on the Monday.

I didn't attend court as my solicitor said I was too emotional and it was best she go on my behalf. She said it would look better if I didn't oppose the order as it showed me accepting there was risk. I trusted her and agreed for her to go and speak on my behalf, again, and tell the court I don't oppose the interim care order being made temporarily. She didn't make me aware of any other options such as mother and baby units or mother and baby foster placements.

Order was granted on the grounds of my son being "at risk of emotional harm" and he was then taken from the hospital.

Back at home the physical abuse started where he would attack me and shortly after so did the sexual abuse. My ex coerced me into prostitution, which I am painfully ashamed to admit. I was in my own admission smoking cannabis as I struggled to cope with what was happening.

Social services had included in their mitigation that I had mental health problems which isn't the case, I've never been known to mental health services although I did have a very short period where I felt low, aged 16, where I was on antidepressants following the death of my grandparents.

While this was going on I continued to fight for my son in court, I sacked my solicitor who wasn't helping me whatsoever and began to represent myself for a period before I hired another. In my admissions I put my side across and the magistrates ruled that social services had not supported me properly prior to removal and they believed I should be given a chance to show I can look after my son. They ordered a mother and baby unit be found and me and my son taken there to be assessed properly, They wanted this done within a matter of weeks. I left the court feeling positive but scared as I knew babies dad would do something to sabotage this process and there was no orders put in place to stop him coming to my house (he had moved out and in with his mother by this point - at my request - albeit unwillingly)

Babies father didn't want this to happen as it would mean him losing control of me and me being away from him, so in the following week after the magistrates ordering social services to source a placement - he made my life hell. There was police logs from him attending my home and he sent to the social workers and court multiple indecent photographs of me telling them I'm a prostitute and unfit to be a mother.

Social services used this new information to appeal against the magistrates ruling and 'stay' the process of reuniting me with my baby in a mother and baby placement. My case was then transferred to another court in a nearby town as a result and as my son was over 6 months old by this point they wanted to conclude the case, they wanted adoption.

In one final bid to prevent the adoption I gave up my home and fled to a women's refuge where he later found me (it was a very small town and I believe somebody told him). He continued to make my life hell and I confided in the social worker about the extent of the abuse, begged them for support and was given none. My son's case concluded as adoption shortly after and there was nothing more I could do.

My ex continued to trouble me for several years. I had pressed charges for a number of assaults throughout the years, and also two counts of rape, he went on the run but unfortunately there was insufficient evidence and the CPS dropped the charges. Throughout everything I only ever managed to have him convicted of a public order offence due to a neighbour seeing him chase me down the street on an occasion shouting threats.

By the time I was 22 i was still getting grief from him and i finally found the strength to leave town. I moved to a city where my few family members were and began to rebuild my life. I was no longer smoking cannabis and suffice to say the prostitution was a thing of the past, that was only ever a factor when he was in my life- it's not something I enjoyed doing or wanted to do of my own accord.

I moved in with a relative, got a full time job and built up a good relationship with my son's adopters via our letterbox contact. I was happier and healthier than I had been in years. I missed my son painfully but accepted that adoption was the best thing for him at the time, it took me a long time to accept that.

At 23 Whilst working I met an amazing man who was a colleague, he was accepting of my past and very supportive - he had fathered two children himself and although separated from their mother he was an exemplary example of a father. You couldn't fault him. We fell pregnant but sadly lost the baby early on. Much to our delight we conceived again shortly after (this baby was very much wanted)

There was no doubt in my mind we could parent the baby well, I had a good support network around me now and he is a great man. He has no criminal record, a decent sturdy job and most importantly he is a kind man. I had turned my life around completely

I began to become frightened. Due to my past experiences with my old social workers I developed an irrational fear that our baby would be taken, so at my first antenatal appointment when the midwife asked if I had any previous social services involvement I told her no - I can't believe how stupid I was but I can't stress enough how scared I was. The fact i had miscarried not too long ago contributed to my decision, I wanted a stress free pregnancy and didn't feel as though I was ready to deal with social workers again after having such bad experiences with them before. I told them I had an older child just not that he had been adopted.

No referral was made and my pregnancy progressed well. Me and my partner saved up for a lovely little flat, a perfect place to bring our baby home to, and began preparing for his arrival.

As my due date approaches (I'm almost 31 weeks) I've been getting increasingly scared about giving birth and social services turning up to the hospital when I have our baby. My partner has never dealt with these authorities and believes they won't, but I'm frightened that something will come up on my file that will trigger them to come and remove him straight away as I've not been assessed since losing my son.

I accept that I will have to deal with social services at some point as I can't hide the past forever but naively I believed I could conceal it long enough to bring him home and evidence that I, that we, can be a loving and adequate family.

Can anybody tell me where I stand? Please no judgement. I'm already being very hard on myself losing sleep. I've contemplated referring myself to social services this week but am absolutely petrified of doing that. I'm equally as scared of them turning up at the hospital. Will this be the case despite me being in a different city hundreds of miles away?

The ex is very much out of my life and non existent these days. There's no police involvement or multi agency involvement for anything at all.

OP posts:
Hannah1x · 17/11/2017 12:12

Babies due at the end of January, I'm almost 31 weeks at the moment.

I've told my partner my worries and what I think we need to do now, ie speak to social services. He said he will support me and the process, doing whatever needs to be done.

As he's never had any involvement with the services he was of the opinion that the past is the past and shouldn't be a factor now, so he didn't think anything would be flagged at the hospital as we lead a very normal and somewhat boring life. I've explained that anyone who's had a child removed would need an assessment before being deemed fit to raise a child and he accepts that makes sense. He did tell me to be honest with the midwife once baby was born so that I didn't have anything hanging over my head as I'm so concerned about the potential for involvement, but he didn't realise the severity of the situation and the real risk for removal at birth.

In his eyes we are a normal working couple with a roof over our heads, a good relationship and the resources available to parent our baby adequately. He didn't have the worries I have, naturally. I feel awful about putting him through all of this. He's a good man and a good father, the thought of me having his son taken away from him is heartbreaking. It would floor him, his children are his world.

He said he will of course apply for guardianship if they want me to leave the home, but it will mean him taking time off from work as he currently works 5 nights per week. He's a supervisor and doesn't get much time off as it is, but obviously the baby would come first every time.

OP posts:
GrabbyMcGrabby · 17/11/2017 12:13

Flowers Because the story of your first child is so wrenchingly heart breaking.And you write so incredibly well and sound so well adjusted and mature despite some awful experiences and youvare srill so young. You should consider that (writing) as a career when you have moved on from this situation.

Get legal advice and act asap. Good luck. Flowers

Hannah1x · 17/11/2017 12:15

Thank you so much x

OP posts:
takingsmallsteps · 17/11/2017 12:49

This was so heartbreaking to read, you've been failed by the services that should have protected you both as a child and a young adult. I'm so sorry you've had your precious baby taken from you. Honesty is the best policy when it comes to social services but like you I would have little faith in the system. I would perhaps seek legal advice or contact a charity to discuss this further before you decide what to do.

takingsmallsteps · 17/11/2017 12:51

Also I would hope because your partner is there that the baby would not be removed as even if you were deemed a risk, the baby could stay with you with your partner's supervision. I harmed by baby when I had PND and my partner signed something to say I wouldn't be left alone with baby without supervision. Either him or my extended family so hopefully you have plenty of options before they would get to removal.

takingsmallsteps · 17/11/2017 12:54

I also want to say Hannah that you sound amazing. So honest and such great insight into your past. Please don't underestimate what an amazing job you've done to turn your life around after such a big loss.

Hairyhat · 17/11/2017 13:00

Hi Hannah, I just wanted to say that your post has moved me to tears, especially still looking for your son in crowds and when you hear his name. You are incredible, I really admire the way you’ve turned your life around. I also think you should consider writing as a career, at least an autobiography as you write very eloquently. I really hope it goes well for you when you next encounter SS (after you have a legal expert fighting your corner). Please keep us updated as I’m really rooting for you.

NachoAddict · 17/11/2017 13:09

I can't advise on your own specific situation but my sister had her chikd removed aged 7 due to her chaotic lifestyle and drug abuse.

She got clean and 6 months later fell pregnant. Of course Social Services have been involved throughout and even though she was convicted of drug dealing during her pregnancy she was able to keep her baby.
The baby was put on a child protection plan and my sister has had lots of involvement with social services and had to complete parenting coursrs and assesmemts. Baby is 8 months old now and has been dropped to child at risk. (I may have the categories wrong but from the most serious to the next one down).

Obviously I cant make any guarantees on your circumstances but if my sister was able to keep her baby with all that going on then hopefully that will reassure you a little.

Well done for turning your life around, I hope you get your happy ending.

Thingsthatmakeyougoumm · 17/11/2017 13:15

Given the time gap between your children you will be able to evidence the changes that you have made. SS have to go through processes and judges do not like to remove newborn babies from mothers care unless there is imminent risk of harm. Even if there was risk, they would likely explore other options such as parent and baby placements or father looking after baby as he has PR. The quicker you start the assessment the better. I personally do not think you need legal advice at this stage as legal are likely to advise you to engage with SS. Free legal support is only given if SS initiate PLO or proceedings. From what you say, you have a good case to show the changes you have made and the support you have. As a social worker, I think it's best that the referral comes from you. Best wishes

Amatree · 17/11/2017 13:21

What a heartbreaking read that OP was. You have done amazingly to turn your life around and one day if your first born comes to meet you I'm sure he will be so proud of you for that.

I agree with others, you have to be honest with SS now - engage fully, apologise for lying and be scrupulously honest from now on. You sound like you will offer your new baby a stable and loving home and hopefully you will just get some extra help in doing that. I'm sure it will reflect well on you that you come clean voluntarily rather than being caught out down the line. Best of luck.

blueskyinmarch · 17/11/2017 13:32

Hannah I am a social worker and have worked with loads of mums who had children removed then went on to have and keep subsequent children. That usually happens when the mum's circumstances change for the better , which it sounds like yours have.

I work in Scotland so the legal system and the process i know is different from England. I am assuming you are in a different LA now from the one in which your child was adopted? My advice would be to tell the MW. Come clean and say you have been worrying about this for a while. Let her refer you on to the LA. It will take them a bit of time to find out your previous details if they need to go to a different LA for this.

Expect an assessment to be carried out and make sure you comply with this honestly and do whatever they say to do - no running away or hiding things. Accept your baby may be put on a child protection plan for a period.

I wouldn't engage a solicitor at this point. I cannot see what they could possibly do until an assessment has been carried out and you know what the plan is.

Just remember that any order to remove a child has to go through court and SS have to be clear why they are removing a child and what the risks are. I know in Scotland SS are made to jump through hoops and provide a lot of evidence to gain orders to remove children.

Good luck with everything.

Hannah1x · 17/11/2017 13:40

Thank you everybody. I'm really surprised at the positive responses I've received here, I was on the fence about posting for a while as I worried I may be flamed given the nature and context of my post. It means an awful lot to receive such kind replies.

I've decided I'm definitely going to do it, I'm going to refer myself on Monday. I'll ask my OH to come with me so we can show a united front, I'll tell them my history and give them written permission to look into whatever records they see fit.

I feel better for posting here and speaking with you guys. It has been a huge weight on my shoulders for months, coming to a head yesterday where I thought I just can't do this anymore, I've got to come clean. I've lost alot of sleep over the fear of him being taken at birth, something that may well be avoided if I act now. I don't have much time left before babies born (late January) but i do have some. I wouldn't have any if I left it as it is and they turned up during birth. That's a sobering thought.

I mentioned earlier that my partner has two children with an ex partner of his. Will social services get in touch with his ex as a result of my case? I can't see her being too happy about being contacted by SS regarding her ex's parental capabilities as a result of him being with somebody who's lost a child. I don't have any contact with his children out of respect for their mother, so my past wouldn't be considered a risk to them. My question about ss contacting her would be purely for the information gathering process required when assessing him. I don't want my past to come between him and his children. Obviously if that has to be the case then so be it, but I think we would both prefer it wasn't. Anyone know?

OP posts:
Hannah1x · 17/11/2017 13:45

Also I've noticed I've had some mixed answers about who to come clean to first, the midwife or by referring myself to social services.

Can anyone shed any light on which of the two is the more appropriate thing to do and reasons for why one is more advisable than the other?

I'm keen not to mess up any further x

OP posts:
blueskyinmarch · 17/11/2017 13:47

They may check the LA records for your partners children to see if they have had any previous SW involvement. If they haven't then they are unlikely to speak to his ex.

fia101 · 17/11/2017 13:48

Don’t do anything until you get confidential private advice from professionals who won’t refer you to ss themselves.

blueskyinmarch · 17/11/2017 13:51

Are you still living in the same LA? If you are then you could go to SS as they will have all your records relating to your first child and the adoption.

If you live elsewhere now then going to SS will probably be difficult. They won't know you and if you just turn up at an office they may not be able to speak to you without an appointment.

My advice would be to speak to the MV because when they pass it on they can give an account of how you have been during this pregnancy and this could go a long way towards determining how SS will deal with the information.

juniorcakeoff · 17/11/2017 13:52

Hi they may want info about your ex,s parenting of his children, so will want to check if they have ever been known to social services or police, if he still sees his children regularly, may then ask for his consent to talk to his ex or his children's schools to gain a view of his parenting. They will police check him to see if he has a record of violent offences.

They will be looking to see whether the risk has reduced since your last baby. So you have got rid of your ex have a think about how did you do that?did you work with police, womens aid, get injunction....all that sort of stuff shows your ability to act protectively should your new partner become abusive. If you have stopped doing drugs, did you get outside help to do this? If so, tell social care and give them permission to speak to your GP/substance misuse agencies.

Women who have children removed solely due to DV often keep the next child if the partner is not abusive, but the fact you have only been together a short time makes it difficult to evidence, that's why they look at his past parenting and relationship history, and your ability to get rid of him if he does become abusive - one thing to consider is how long were you doing well and living independently and with stability before you met him ? Who else have you got to support you in your life e.g. good stable friendships, community, extended family.

Hannah1x · 17/11/2017 13:52

His children have never had any SW involvement whatsoever. They've been raised well, in a stable environment with no risk factors or anything to concern any authorities

I'm still going to talk to my previous solicitor on Monday for general advice, before I do anything. If for no reason other than to be advised how to come across, what to say etc. She won't refer me anywhere herself I'm sure of that.

OP posts:
fia101 · 17/11/2017 13:54

If you get legal advice you don’t have to admit to ss you have or even a solicitor - all legally privileged

juniorcakeoff · 17/11/2017 13:56

Try and find the pre birth assessment protocol for your local area, like this lincolnshirescb.proceduresonline.com/chapters/p_pre_birth_protocol.html . This lets you know exactly what they are looking for. I would speak to Midwife and maybe call your local Multi Agency Safeguarding Hub or whatever your local referrals team is called shortly afterwards.

juniorcakeoff · 17/11/2017 13:59

Hannah how can you be sure his children have never had SS involved? It may also be worth you finding out whether your local police are involved in the domestic violence disclosure scheme and asking for disclosure re your current partner.

Aridane · 17/11/2017 14:18

Don’t do anything until you get confidential private advice from professionals who won’t refer you to ss themselves.

This

Hannah1x · 17/11/2017 14:59

I'll try to answer some of the recent questions, apologies if I miss anything.

How I distanced myself from the ex:

After my son's adoption was concluded he continued to assault and control me, he was in my life for a couple of years after proceedings ended. I didn't want to be with him but felt unable to get rid of him. One day he spat at me, and although that was one of the least serious things he'd ever done to me (he had done some seriously cruel and unforgivable things before much worse than this) something inside me clicked and I knew I couldn't continue like that any longer. I reached breaking point and went to the police to give a very long and detailed account of what he'd put me through and pleaded with them to get him out of my life. This included historical assaults and the then-recent ones, aswell as the control and other abusive factors over the years. I couldn't live like it any longer and needed him gone once and for all. I had lost everything except my sanity and couldn't take it from him any more. I spent three days in a row giving statements at the police station and my ex was arrested and bailed. A domestic violence protection order was granted to keep him away from me on bail, and the police referred and got me a domestic violence liaison worker who kept in daily contact with me and arranged for my home to have increased security measures installed. Whilst on bail, he broke his conditions and threatened me, a warrant was issued for his arrest for breaching the DVPO and he absconded and went on the run. The order was extended in court in his absence as they continued to look for him.

He fled town and ended up in another city. Whilst he was awol the cps concluded that there wasnt enough evidence to charge him, so the charges were dropped unfortunately.

The police appointed DV support officer continued to remain in contact with me after that point despite no charges being brought but i decided that I no longer felt safe in the town and wanted to leave for good. I then gave up my home and moved to the city I live in now.

Regarding the cannabis misuse:

I stopped smoking it before the end of court proceedings with my son. SS were using as mitigation against me and requested a drugs test so I ceased using it there and then. It was only ever recreational and never something that took over my life. I didn't receive help with quitting as it wasn't something I struggled to stop.

Regarding my current partner:

He has no problem with ss looking into his history and said from the start he would welcome them to do whatever checks they need as he's never had any problems with DV or SS, nor the police. He and his ex were together for a very long time, had a good relationship, split amicably and remain friends until this day.

In the unlikely event he ever did become abusive I have family locally whom I could live with if I needed to leave him. I'm hoping my relentlessly pursuing a prosecution with my ex (albeit late and unsuccessfully) would evidence my willingness to be open about any abuse i were to encounter now days.

OP posts:
DellaWare · 17/11/2017 15:06

I wish you the very best of luck with everything. Knowing the difficulties my D's birth mum had and how she has managed to turn things around and parent her other children I have great admiration for the strength and determination you will have had to have to get to the point you're at now. Best of luck to you x

Bluename · 17/11/2017 15:39

A while back there was this fantastic woman who posted about her son having been removed and fear of her daughter being removed at birth. I will try and see if I can find the link. She will have first hand experience to share with you if she so wishes to. She did have a good outcome.