Pregnant after having child removed at birth

[Hannah1x]

Hi all, I'm desperate for some advice and would appreciate feedback from anybody who works in social work, has experience in law or has had personal experience with dealing with social services in subsequent pregnancies after having a child removed.

Im 24 yrs old. When I was 18 I was in an abusive relationship with a man who had an extensive criminal past of DV. He was known to social services due to his first born child being taken from him and an ex at approx 1 years old and the child was subsequently adopted.

I was young, naive and didn't know all the facts - he hadn't yet hurt me by the time I fell pregnant and I underestimated the risk he posed to me. I had no family in the area and was very isolated.

When I fell pregnant he became abusive, emotionally and verbally. I confided in a midwife at my first antenatal appointment with my concerns about his past and how he was acting with me now and i was referred to social services. They were involved with me from being 13 weeks pregnant, visiting the home and asking me to attend sure start centre classes which I did.

When I began to worry about removal I asked my SW whether I could move to another city closer to my family to help my case away from the father and I was specifically told not to because it would 'disrupt' the assessment process.

I found my sw to be very unhelpful and at 36 weeks pregnant they told me would go to court and remove my baby at birth without offering any alternative intervention despite me doing everything they'd asked. Prior to the PLO meeting which I was prevented from attending (my then solicitor was not acting in my favour) I again asked if they would support me leaving the town with my baby and I was told no, stay, no final decisions had not been made yet.

I don't feel as though I was given any support or encouragement to leave this man throughout my assessments and I accept I could have upped and left but I was young vulnerable isolated and very much under his control.

When baby was born at 38 weeks it was a Saturday, out of hours social services arrived at the hospital and told me they'd apply to court on Monday to remove my son. Foolishly, out of panic, I left the hospital with my son and took him home against their instructions. They told the hospital to call the police who came and got us, returning us to the ward where we had to stay until the social worker came to remove him on the Monday.

I didn't attend court as my solicitor said I was too emotional and it was best she go on my behalf. She said it would look better if I didn't oppose the order as it showed me accepting there was risk. I trusted her and agreed for her to go and speak on my behalf, again, and tell the court I don't oppose the interim care order being made temporarily. She didn't make me aware of any other options such as mother and baby units or mother and baby foster placements.

Order was granted on the grounds of my son being "at risk of emotional harm" and he was then taken from the hospital.

Back at home the physical abuse started where he would attack me and shortly after so did the sexual abuse. My ex coerced me into prostitution, which I am painfully ashamed to admit. I was in my own admission smoking cannabis as I struggled to cope with what was happening.

Social services had included in their mitigation that I had mental health problems which isn't the case, I've never been known to mental health services although I did have a very short period where I felt low, aged 16, where I was on antidepressants following the death of my grandparents.

While this was going on I continued to fight for my son in court, I sacked my solicitor who wasn't helping me whatsoever and began to represent myself for a period before I hired another. In my admissions I put my side across and the magistrates ruled that social services had not supported me properly prior to removal and they believed I should be given a chance to show I can look after my son. They ordered a mother and baby unit be found and me and my son taken there to be assessed properly, They wanted this done within a matter of weeks. I left the court feeling positive but scared as I knew babies dad would do something to sabotage this process and there was no orders put in place to stop him coming to my house (he had moved out and in with his mother by this point - at my request - albeit unwillingly)

Babies father didn't want this to happen as it would mean him losing control of me and me being away from him, so in the following week after the magistrates ordering social services to source a placement - he made my life hell. There was police logs from him attending my home and he sent to the social workers and court multiple indecent photographs of me telling them I'm a prostitute and unfit to be a mother.

Social services used this new information to appeal against the magistrates ruling and 'stay' the process of reuniting me with my baby in a mother and baby placement. My case was then transferred to another court in a nearby town as a result and as my son was over 6 months old by this point they wanted to conclude the case, they wanted adoption.

In one final bid to prevent the adoption I gave up my home and fled to a women's refuge where he later found me (it was a very small town and I believe somebody told him). He continued to make my life hell and I confided in the social worker about the extent of the abuse, begged them for support and was given none. My son's case concluded as adoption shortly after and there was nothing more I could do.

My ex continued to trouble me for several years. I had pressed charges for a number of assaults throughout the years, and also two counts of rape, he went on the run but unfortunately there was insufficient evidence and the CPS dropped the charges. Throughout everything I only ever managed to have him convicted of a public order offence due to a neighbour seeing him chase me down the street on an occasion shouting threats.

By the time I was 22 i was still getting grief from him and i finally found the strength to leave town. I moved to a city where my few family members were and began to rebuild my life. I was no longer smoking cannabis and suffice to say the prostitution was a thing of the past, that was only ever a factor when he was in my life- it's not something I enjoyed doing or wanted to do of my own accord.

I moved in with a relative, got a full time job and built up a good relationship with my son's adopters via our letterbox contact. I was happier and healthier than I had been in years. I missed my son painfully but accepted that adoption was the best thing for him at the time, it took me a long time to accept that.

At 23 Whilst working I met an amazing man who was a colleague, he was accepting of my past and very supportive - he had fathered two children himself and although separated from their mother he was an exemplary example of a father. You couldn't fault him. We fell pregnant but sadly lost the baby early on. Much to our delight we conceived again shortly after (this baby was very much wanted)

There was no doubt in my mind we could parent the baby well, I had a good support network around me now and he is a great man. He has no criminal record, a decent sturdy job and most importantly he is a kind man. I had turned my life around completely

I began to become frightened. Due to my past experiences with my old social workers I developed an irrational fear that our baby would be taken, so at my first antenatal appointment when the midwife asked if I had any previous social services involvement I told her no - I can't believe how stupid I was but I can't stress enough how scared I was. The fact i had miscarried not too long ago contributed to my decision, I wanted a stress free pregnancy and didn't feel as though I was ready to deal with social workers again after having such bad experiences with them before. I told them I had an older child just not that he had been adopted.

No referral was made and my pregnancy progressed well. Me and my partner saved up for a lovely little flat, a perfect place to bring our baby home to, and began preparing for his arrival.

As my due date approaches (I'm almost 31 weeks) I've been getting increasingly scared about giving birth and social services turning up to the hospital when I have our baby. My partner has never dealt with these authorities and believes they won't, but I'm frightened that something will come up on my file that will trigger them to come and remove him straight away as I've not been assessed since losing my son.

I accept that I will have to deal with social services at some point as I can't hide the past forever but naively I believed I could conceal it long enough to bring him home and evidence that I, that we, can be a loving and adequate family.

Can anybody tell me where I stand? Please no judgement. I'm already being very hard on myself losing sleep. I've contemplated referring myself to social services this week but am absolutely petrified of doing that. I'm equally as scared of them turning up at the hospital. Will this be the case despite me being in a different city hundreds of miles away?

The ex is very much out of my life and non existent these days. There's no police involvement or multi agency involvement for anything at all.

[Afreshstartplease]

I remember that thread too blue it would be good for the op to read

[Bluename]

Gosh I can't find it fresh perhaps someone else can. I remember she had a wee girl and even posted the baby's pic when she was born.

[Bluename]

It was also posted in legal matters.

[Afreshstartplease]

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/legal_matters/2820565-Can-they-take-my-baby-away

[LadyGagarden]

Hi OP, i just want to say good luck and please don’t be scared. Go to a solicitor first because you need someone on your side but ultimately I think honesty is the best policy and you will then need to tell SS. A family member had a baby with a man who had had a child previously taken away. I don’t think SS were that concerned as it was deemed that his circumstances had changed. You sound like you have done amazingly well so hold your head high and do everything that is asked of you now so that you can have the lovely family you deserve when baby comes.

[Bluename]

You are a legend fresh that's the thread I was thinking of and can I just say that you were very kind to the poster in that thread.

[Hannah1x]

Coincidentally I was reading that ladies post last night, I was frantically googling for situations similar to my own when I came across it. I was up until the small hours reading every post from beginning to end. I had tears streaming down my face when I read that she had gotten to keep her daughter, her strength and dedication in the face of adversity astounded me. I have the utmost respect for her and everything she managed to achieve. I can only hope and pray I manage to achieve the same

[Jellybean85]

Hello! I work in social care specifically dealing with the issues you are talking about, it’s really important to be honest and show you have changed, you recognise now the situation back then was wholly inappropriate for a baby. Don’t conceal! It will make it seem like you still can’t work with professionals to keep your baby safe.

If it’s all as positive as you say you will likely pass an assessment this time in different circumstances. I’ve seen you lots of cases where women who have babies previously removed can keep later ones.

Feel free to pm if you want more advice

[Bluename]

Hannah you also have admirable strength and amazing resilience. Life dealt you with some shit cards but you persevered and didn't give up and managed to change your life for the better against all odds. It's a horror of how you were let down and your reluctance to approach social services is understandable. I haven't been in your shoes so I cannot understand of how tough life has been for you. But I can tell you that as a mother myself, when you said you look for your son's face in the crowd, that really hurt me for you. We are all rooting for you and you can tag @saraheve and she might be able to share her experience with you. However of course it's her choice. Where there's a will, there is a way and all will be well in the end for you.

[Afreshstartplease]

I am so glad that things ended up good for saraheve and hopefully the op on this thread can have a great outcome too! Alot of people were not that kind with saraheve and it was so unnecessary, you dont need to shit on someone who already has so much shit going on!

[girraffe]

I know someone who had a child removed due to her own problems. Went on to have another and that child lives with her.

There's ongoing social services involvement but social services don't automatically take a baby away next time round

I think your concerning factors are - concealing your prior involvement and pregnancy

Saying you don't have MH problems. I'd be amazed if you didn't - look at how much you've gone through... I'd find it more abnormal if you didn't

But I wouldn't jump to telling the midwife immediately. I would seek legal advice, then when you do approach them do it in the form of requesting a family support worker perhaps and being open to having social services involved for any time period rather than "look im fine go away"

That's how I'd do it... rooting for you though

[Hannah1x]

Thank you ladies. I'm so greatful for your advice and kind responses.

I have a very different mindset now to the one I had when I was pregnant with, and lost, my first son. I did my best to work with them and do as they asked but from the treatment I received from what were in my opinion very bad social workers, I developed a "me vs them" reflection which caused me so much fear in my subsequent pregnancy. If i hadn't had such an experience I wouldn't have felt the need to hide anything, although I must take responsibility for my own actions I realise that.

I completely realise that my circumstances back then weren't suitable to raise a child in. I said as much at the final hearing. I told the judge (via my solicitor) that I accept the risk posed to my son as a direct result of his father. The judge openly said in court that he took no pleasure in granting the adoption order and he felt deeply for me, also that it was apparent to all concerned how much I love my son and he said my son would grow up knowing this. That brought me some minor comfort at the time, to hear from the judge.

Social services were right to be concerned as my son most definitely was at risk, I just wish they tried at least something, just once, to support him and i remaining together.

If only i could turn back time, I would have ran away from that man and the town the second I found out I was pregnant. Isn't hindsight a wonderful thing.

I know there are good social workers, I've known people in the past be given lots of support and chances to look after their children, I feel I was just unlucky and got the short straw when it came to the ones I got.

I heard that the one who removed my son from the hospital left shortly after my case concluded. I often wonder whether she feels she could have done more.

I hope with every fibre of my being that the next social worker I meet does things differently, I know I will.





Due to how the professionals handled my case it skewed my perception of them as a whole

[Hannah1x]

Hi giraffe

When I said I didn't have mental health problems I was referring to during the proceedings for my son. I wasn't known to any mental health services at all back then, nor am I now, although I accept I probably have a degree of PTSD and anxiety now - after everything that happened in the end.

I'm not mentally unwell though. Sure I miss my son but I cope, hold down a full time job and have good relationships with those around me. I'm stable and definitely not in the middle of a breakdown or suffering from anything that would make me unfit to look after a baby x

[youarenotkiddingme]

Actually just cried reading your post.

Firstly - be proud of yourself for how far you've come.

Secondly - chat to midwife. Explain you had a son by an abusive man and despite fighting to change his hold over you and his behaviour and SS involvement led to him being adopted. Just say you panicked when she asked the question but are getting more worried now about the untruth and are concerned about the effect of that on your pregnancy.

SS will take each case independently. There is no reason for them to see this baby is at risk if what you've typed is true. But they will want to check the babies homelife and family life because of the risk of people returning to abusive relationships - even with someone different.

[Hannah1x]

A big part of the reason my fears have come to a head and made me want to come clean is the fact it feels impossible to hide for much longer. Even if by some stroke of luck I wasn't flagged at the hospital, I don't feel I would be able to continue to lie to the midwife and health visitors who would visit me at home after.

That's how it works isn't it? They come to see you and baby at home to see how babies progressing.

I could just imagine trying to explain away the fact i have an invisible child that's not here whenever they come. I think suspicion was bound to be raised and probably very quickly, which would then make things alot worse.

If I could be given a cast iron guarantee that my past could remain in the past and I wouldn't be found out to have lied, then the chances are i wouldn't have said anything as I know my life is very different now. I just feel as though (as has been confirmed) that it's unavoidable and for the best for me and bump if I come clean and deal with come what may

[SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius]

@Hannah1x - I don’t have any experience in this area, but wanted to tell you how much I admire you for the changes you have made, and how you have overcome such a difficult few years. I hope you are proud of yourself - you deserve to be!

I think you have some excellent advice on here, from people with real life experience in this area, and I will be thinking of you, and wishing you well in the last few weeks of your pregnancy, and once the baby comes.

[Hannah1x]

Bless your heart YANKM thank you so much x

[Hannah1x]

And you too SDT I really appreciate your kind words, truly it means alot x

[DamsonGin]

You sound like you've turned your life around very well, and I wish you all the best with your baby. As well as the good advice above, may I suggest that you are very open about any help you think you might need going forward. If you didn't have the best role model in your own mum, would you be willing to attend parenting classes? Would you be willing to see your GP about anxiety if you or anyone else see that present? I totally understand why you must be fearful of social services but if you can show you have not only got past your difficult years but are open and willing to work to being a wonderful mother then I should think that would help you loads.

[Hannah1x]

Hi damson

Yes for sure I would be happy to do either or both of those things if I was asked to, and they felt it would help me. %100.

I'm pretty much prepared to do whatever Is asked of me x

[Hannah1x]

I actually attended parenting classes through the sure start centre when I was fighting for my son come to mention it.

The only ones they had running at that time were tailored toward older children so not really relevant to me at that point as my son was new born, but I still went along and engaged - not that it made a difference to the SW I had

I genuinely believe that no matter what I had done back then, the SW I had only ever wanted to push for adoption

That being said I am still open to classes, groups or whatever else

[girraffe]

With your previous lifestyle did you have friends who also worked/took drugs?

I would make sure you've distanced yourself from anyone and everyone from back then.

It's unfair but I really think it depends on who you get when it comes to judges and social workers... I've worked with amazing ones and ones who I would have banned from the profession if I had the choice

I think it helps to imagine yourself as a social worker... providing for a family... and see it through their eyes when assessing things. If you were them... would you put your job on the line certain that you were not at any risk of allowing a child to be harmed under your "involvement"

If there's any niggles - fix them. If not... I really do expect it to work out well if you go about telling them the right way and show them you have support in place x

[Hannah1x]

Giraffe,

No I didn't have any other friends who were doing what I was doing. It was all kept very low key and secret, organised via the internet and not out on the streets. I wasn't public with it (at least not until he outed me) which beggared belief as he was the one who got me doing it to begin with. It's not in my nature to do things like that and I haven't done it once since I got away from him. I began to refuse toward the end which got me hit on several occasions. I didn't like it and regret it immensely.

Regarding friends who also smoked cannabis, surprisingly not. I was quite isolated after I met him and no longer saw any of my long-term friends, smoking was something I did with him. He had friends who smoked cannabis but they were his friends and not mine. The friends i have now and the ones I'm back in touch with after getting rid of him, don't do drugs. Most have children of their own now too.

[girraffe]

You've done really well and should be really proud of yourself. I really hope you have a good outcome x

[KOKOagainandagain]

You have done so well but you still need people on your side. The LA, HV, SS are, quite rightly, on the (unborn) child’s side. Please get advice from people who will be on your side before confessing to people who’s job is to be on the side of the child.