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Pregnant after having child removed at birth

476 replies

Hannah1x · 17/11/2017 09:09

Hi all, I'm desperate for some advice and would appreciate feedback from anybody who works in social work, has experience in law or has had personal experience with dealing with social services in subsequent pregnancies after having a child removed.

Im 24 yrs old. When I was 18 I was in an abusive relationship with a man who had an extensive criminal past of DV. He was known to social services due to his first born child being taken from him and an ex at approx 1 years old and the child was subsequently adopted.

I was young, naive and didn't know all the facts - he hadn't yet hurt me by the time I fell pregnant and I underestimated the risk he posed to me. I had no family in the area and was very isolated.

When I fell pregnant he became abusive, emotionally and verbally. I confided in a midwife at my first antenatal appointment with my concerns about his past and how he was acting with me now and i was referred to social services. They were involved with me from being 13 weeks pregnant, visiting the home and asking me to attend sure start centre classes which I did.

When I began to worry about removal I asked my SW whether I could move to another city closer to my family to help my case away from the father and I was specifically told not to because it would 'disrupt' the assessment process.

I found my sw to be very unhelpful and at 36 weeks pregnant they told me would go to court and remove my baby at birth without offering any alternative intervention despite me doing everything they'd asked. Prior to the PLO meeting which I was prevented from attending (my then solicitor was not acting in my favour) I again asked if they would support me leaving the town with my baby and I was told no, stay, no final decisions had not been made yet.

I don't feel as though I was given any support or encouragement to leave this man throughout my assessments and I accept I could have upped and left but I was young vulnerable isolated and very much under his control.

When baby was born at 38 weeks it was a Saturday, out of hours social services arrived at the hospital and told me they'd apply to court on Monday to remove my son. Foolishly, out of panic, I left the hospital with my son and took him home against their instructions. They told the hospital to call the police who came and got us, returning us to the ward where we had to stay until the social worker came to remove him on the Monday.

I didn't attend court as my solicitor said I was too emotional and it was best she go on my behalf. She said it would look better if I didn't oppose the order as it showed me accepting there was risk. I trusted her and agreed for her to go and speak on my behalf, again, and tell the court I don't oppose the interim care order being made temporarily. She didn't make me aware of any other options such as mother and baby units or mother and baby foster placements.

Order was granted on the grounds of my son being "at risk of emotional harm" and he was then taken from the hospital.

Back at home the physical abuse started where he would attack me and shortly after so did the sexual abuse. My ex coerced me into prostitution, which I am painfully ashamed to admit. I was in my own admission smoking cannabis as I struggled to cope with what was happening.

Social services had included in their mitigation that I had mental health problems which isn't the case, I've never been known to mental health services although I did have a very short period where I felt low, aged 16, where I was on antidepressants following the death of my grandparents.

While this was going on I continued to fight for my son in court, I sacked my solicitor who wasn't helping me whatsoever and began to represent myself for a period before I hired another. In my admissions I put my side across and the magistrates ruled that social services had not supported me properly prior to removal and they believed I should be given a chance to show I can look after my son. They ordered a mother and baby unit be found and me and my son taken there to be assessed properly, They wanted this done within a matter of weeks. I left the court feeling positive but scared as I knew babies dad would do something to sabotage this process and there was no orders put in place to stop him coming to my house (he had moved out and in with his mother by this point - at my request - albeit unwillingly)

Babies father didn't want this to happen as it would mean him losing control of me and me being away from him, so in the following week after the magistrates ordering social services to source a placement - he made my life hell. There was police logs from him attending my home and he sent to the social workers and court multiple indecent photographs of me telling them I'm a prostitute and unfit to be a mother.

Social services used this new information to appeal against the magistrates ruling and 'stay' the process of reuniting me with my baby in a mother and baby placement. My case was then transferred to another court in a nearby town as a result and as my son was over 6 months old by this point they wanted to conclude the case, they wanted adoption.

In one final bid to prevent the adoption I gave up my home and fled to a women's refuge where he later found me (it was a very small town and I believe somebody told him). He continued to make my life hell and I confided in the social worker about the extent of the abuse, begged them for support and was given none. My son's case concluded as adoption shortly after and there was nothing more I could do.

My ex continued to trouble me for several years. I had pressed charges for a number of assaults throughout the years, and also two counts of rape, he went on the run but unfortunately there was insufficient evidence and the CPS dropped the charges. Throughout everything I only ever managed to have him convicted of a public order offence due to a neighbour seeing him chase me down the street on an occasion shouting threats.

By the time I was 22 i was still getting grief from him and i finally found the strength to leave town. I moved to a city where my few family members were and began to rebuild my life. I was no longer smoking cannabis and suffice to say the prostitution was a thing of the past, that was only ever a factor when he was in my life- it's not something I enjoyed doing or wanted to do of my own accord.

I moved in with a relative, got a full time job and built up a good relationship with my son's adopters via our letterbox contact. I was happier and healthier than I had been in years. I missed my son painfully but accepted that adoption was the best thing for him at the time, it took me a long time to accept that.

At 23 Whilst working I met an amazing man who was a colleague, he was accepting of my past and very supportive - he had fathered two children himself and although separated from their mother he was an exemplary example of a father. You couldn't fault him. We fell pregnant but sadly lost the baby early on. Much to our delight we conceived again shortly after (this baby was very much wanted)

There was no doubt in my mind we could parent the baby well, I had a good support network around me now and he is a great man. He has no criminal record, a decent sturdy job and most importantly he is a kind man. I had turned my life around completely

I began to become frightened. Due to my past experiences with my old social workers I developed an irrational fear that our baby would be taken, so at my first antenatal appointment when the midwife asked if I had any previous social services involvement I told her no - I can't believe how stupid I was but I can't stress enough how scared I was. The fact i had miscarried not too long ago contributed to my decision, I wanted a stress free pregnancy and didn't feel as though I was ready to deal with social workers again after having such bad experiences with them before. I told them I had an older child just not that he had been adopted.

No referral was made and my pregnancy progressed well. Me and my partner saved up for a lovely little flat, a perfect place to bring our baby home to, and began preparing for his arrival.

As my due date approaches (I'm almost 31 weeks) I've been getting increasingly scared about giving birth and social services turning up to the hospital when I have our baby. My partner has never dealt with these authorities and believes they won't, but I'm frightened that something will come up on my file that will trigger them to come and remove him straight away as I've not been assessed since losing my son.

I accept that I will have to deal with social services at some point as I can't hide the past forever but naively I believed I could conceal it long enough to bring him home and evidence that I, that we, can be a loving and adequate family.

Can anybody tell me where I stand? Please no judgement. I'm already being very hard on myself losing sleep. I've contemplated referring myself to social services this week but am absolutely petrified of doing that. I'm equally as scared of them turning up at the hospital. Will this be the case despite me being in a different city hundreds of miles away?

The ex is very much out of my life and non existent these days. There's no police involvement or multi agency involvement for anything at all.

OP posts:
MorningCuppa · 18/11/2017 22:14

Hi op, I can see why you did what you did, however I do agree with lots of others, the best thing you can do now is to be honest. Please don’t be scared too although I can see why you would be because of your past experience.

I have a very good friend, who had her 2 boys removed from her care, she had split with there dad as things didn’t work out, She then went on to have a very toxic relationship about a year later with another man, things were not right and ss got involved, for many reasons the boys were removed from her care and placed with there father. She had no contact with them.

She ended her toxic relationship and met a new man a couple of years later and got pregnant, when she went to the doctors because of her notes on her file they did say they would have to flag it to ss she was pregnant.

This was fine ss did come out, they checked where she was living and checked out her partner and had a chat with her, they went away and said they would do there checks and a few weeks later came back saying as everything was fine they said they would be signing her off and sent her a letter with this information.

She has had no involvement with her new baby girl apart from the normal midwife/health visitors.

Please, please be honest with them as the longer you keep this secret the worse it will be, I’m sure it will all be fine, I think the biggest mistake you have made is not to be honest from the beginning but it’s not to late now, I think it would be a lot worse if you leave it until they discover it (which they will) or after the birth.

WellThisIsShit · 18/11/2017 22:42

Oh God, don’t flee the country, that’s the worst advice I’ve ever heard.

No idea about the poster who said that so not talking about them, but you do need to keep a watch out for the conspiracy theorists who like to get involved and send a bad situation into a complete crisis by their advice and hatred of all the evil system and the evil sw etc.

These people who like to pretend they are helping whilst furthering their own political agendas. Their advice lands people in so much difficulty, and no, it doesn’t tend to end happily. They scare mothers who are already terrified by crazy paranoid stories and they stop any positive engagement with ss... and therefore make it a lot harder to keep your baby because of this.

You seem to have a level head on your shoulders, and recognise that the best option is to contact ss, even though it will be very hard to do so. Don’t be seduced by anyone offering amazing sounding help to evade the system, as those offers are too good to be true.

Flowers
brabenot · 19/11/2017 00:50

WellThisIsShit I've been trying to find this but was unsuccessful: Around January this year a mnetter called Spero who is a family court lawyer, posted something like this, that the emphasis is now on removal rather than support.

Hannah1x · 19/11/2017 02:24

Has anybody here heard of Ian Joseph's the guy who runs the forced adoption website? I've just been reminded of some contact I had with him.

When I was pregnant with my first born little boy I got into contact with him, he was very much against SS and how they handled situations that he had advised people on. The reason I ask is because he is a known advocate for people fleeing abroad, and if I remember correctly has been known to help parents do exactly that.

When I was going through the court process I found it something of a comfort to be in touch with him because he was telling me everything I wanted to hear at the time, how they were wrong and what they were doing was immoral etc. He was very against cooperating with them at all. Having him echo my own paranoia at the time and feed into my growing theories about SS back then - turned out to be counter intuitive in the end as it meant I allowed myself to be sidetracked from acknowledging any of the risks.

I decided not to go back down that route this time as it didn't work for me before and ended up with me looking as though I was blaming the services for everything, though there was truth in my point of view in regards to how they were not supporting me properly.. focusing on that rather than trying to convince the courts I was prepared to accept the risks completely, took presidence. Now that I'm somewhat at peace with my son's adoption I'm able to look at things differently and accept my part in responsibility, that is one of the few parts that I think may go in my favour. I will always believe I was let down by SS and that won't ever change, but I also acknowledge my own short comings too.

That's not to say I don't believe that leaving the country isn't right for some people. If making a new start somewhere else was possible I would absolutely consider it.

I know of a girl, a friend of an acquaintance, who had her second child abroad as social services were seeking to have her adopted alongside her first, she had to come back to the UK after giving birth and her second baby now lives with the father's family in a different country. That for her was her best option, meaning baby would at least grow up within it's biological family and she would go and visit twice a year. She doesn't do so without intrusion from the services though and every time she goes abroad and comes back she is visited by the police to see whether she has tried to bring the child back into the country. It's far from ideal but worked for her, which I'm pleased about, as SS weren't prepared to let her keep the child whatsoever, the second baby was conceived whilst the adoption for child number 1 was still going through the courts.

OP posts:
meandthem · 19/11/2017 03:58

Hi Hannah,
I am not a SW but a children's health professional and have regular dealings with children's services. My advice echoes many of the posters here - please do either self refer to social services or make an appointment with your midwife and actively request a referral NOW. If you can show you are being pro-active and demonstrate insight into the reasons why children's services might need to be aware, you have won half the battle already and mitigate to a degree the fact you did not tell the midwife earlier. They will get concerned at ongoing "concealment" of this pregnancy from services however -so please act now!
From my experience I can see no reason why children' services would have doubts about your present capacity to love, care and protect your baby. After an initial assessment, which lets be honest is intrusive and something nobody enjoys, I suspect there would be very limited ongoing involvement and you could relax and just enjoy looking forward to meeting your baby. Please prepare you partner too - if he becomes defensive under scrutiny it just makes everything more stressful.
Don't waste money on legal fees either - I suspect your case will never get to the legal planning stage. Save it to spend it on something far more enjoyable when baby arrives. Make the most of your community midwife too - she is there for Mum AND baby and will be looking for positive early signs of bonding/attachment - and will be reporting this to children's services, so make her your ally.
The bottom line really is "the best interests of the child" and the way you talk about how you manage the relationship with your son and his adoptive parents illustrates that you have absolutely got this spot on. Working WITH social services can be really testing, but you have shown such tenacity in overcoming your past you can really do this! Sending you all the best (flowers).

LoveProsecco · 19/11/2017 04:21

Good luck Flowers

Frazzled2207 · 19/11/2017 07:17

I have no advice to add to what’s been said but agree that speaking to the midwife and also your old solicitor are what you need to do. I would be surprised if you needed to worry as the ex was the problem last time not you.

But you come across as being very switched on which will help your case enormously. You’ve had a terrible time and i wish you your new partner and baby the very best.

Hannah1x · 19/11/2017 09:17

Thank you ladies, feeling a little more positive today :)

So glad I posted here. Hearing from other mums, birth and adoptive, social workers, people who work in law and health specialists - has really helped me gain some clarity over the situation.

I'm still really scared but think that's hugely down to the past, I need to focus on the positives and the fact that me going to the services myself will go in my favour x

OP posts:
dowsabel · 19/11/2017 12:09

Hi @Hannah1x

I work in a related field too and echo all of the sensible advice so far. It’s amazing how you have managed to turn your life around and not end in a perpetual downward cycle as some parents do after a child is removed from them. As an aside you would be a really interesting person for social work students to study and learn from so consider writing and publishing your experiences one day in a professional journal.
In relation to your hospital record being flagged - this is unlikely if you are so far away from where you lived when this happened. Hospital IT isn’t that good haha! If there was something on a computer system local to you already your midwife would have seen it and already raised her concerns. That said you know yourself that you can’t hide this forever and coming out postnatally will be worse. when there is no 4 year old (or evidence of a 4 year old) at your home this will raise red flags for the midwife or health visitor. Be kind to yourself and say that you panicked at being asked about previous social care involvement and that you said no because to you it’s historical and not your life now but you have since reflected and feel you should be honest and have the necessary assessments. By all means speak to your previous solicitor but tell your midwife tomorrow and social care yourself straight after. Just ring the number for children’s social care and say you are self referring for a pre birth assessment and need to meet with a social worker ASAP. Write down everything you do and say, who you spoke to, who you left messages with and what actions you have both agreed. Take control of the situation and work openly and collaboratively with them. If you feel a social worker is approaching this from a position of judgement and not in a balanced and transparent way, you can escalate it to their team manager. Good luck with the process and I will follow this with interest.

brabenot · 19/11/2017 20:44

Hannah I just wanted to wish you lots of luck when you go to the services tomorrow. There has been some good positive posts on your thread about everything going really well with second babies, hasn't there? Smile I'll have fingers crossed for you and well done for coming so far. Flowers

Hannah1x · 19/11/2017 23:12

Thank you very much ladies I will keep you all updated once I've spoken with who I need to speak with tomorrow and got the ball rolling :-)

I'm still shocked at how nice everybody has been, I can't thank you all enough for your advice and words of encouragement x

OP posts:
dowsabel · 19/11/2017 23:38

@Hannah1x people (even Mumsnet people) are generally nice, kind and sensitive. Good luck tomorrow!

Afreshstartplease · 20/11/2017 09:14

Good luck op!

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 20/11/2017 09:28

I'll be thinking of you and sending positive vibes, @Hannah1x.

brabenot · 20/11/2017 09:33

Thinking of you Hannah Smile

tampinfuminragin · 20/11/2017 09:38

Thinking of you today.

Toooldtobearsed · 20/11/2017 09:39

Hope today is the day that finally puts your mind to rest Hannah, the very, very best of luck and good wishes.

Ivehadtonamechangeforthis · 20/11/2017 10:08

Hope today goes well for you Hannah and the advice you receive is reassuring. Thinking of you.

LoveProsecco · 20/11/2017 13:32

Thinking of you Flowers

Hannah1x · 20/11/2017 13:33

Hi everyone.

Spoke to my old solicitor. She then spoke to a barrister she works closely with and called me back.

They said the best way forward is to get an appointment with my midwife and explain everything to her, now and not later on down the line as if I leave it and am caught out I will be seriously harming my case and she doesn't want us to risk him being taken at birth while they do assessments.

To then let the midwife refer on to social services and then go from there, but to tell the midwife am happy to speak to SS myself now if she recommends it. Be open and honest. She said as some time has passed and my circumstances are different she'd hope they will just want to come out and speak to us to make sure everything is ok and monitor for a while. She also said they may (probably will) want to get my files from the last LA.

She said my partners role in all of this is vital as they'll be looking to make sure hes commited to safeguarding us and that he can protect baby from harm (my actions in the past such as not getting away from the violent ex early enough indicated that I had an inability to protect my first born son back then)

When I came off the phone to the solicitor i called the midwife and left a message saying I need to see her asap to discuss something to do with my circumstances. She's a bit hard to get hold of as she's so busy and her voicemail says something about only seeing people on Tuesdays and Thursdays (unless I heard wrong) so I sent a text aswell saying it's urgent. Hopefully she gets back to me within the next day!

So the wheels are in motion..I'm bloody scared :( hope I've done the right thing. I'm sure I have.

Babies dad said he is with me every step of the way. I've stressed to him the importance of keeping composed and cooperating with them completely even if he doesn't like what they have to say about me. Ive warned him it may not be a very pleasant journey. He understands

I just want it all over and done with now. The suspense is going to drive me potty x

OP posts:
GrabbyMcGrabby · 20/11/2017 13:38

I am sure you have done the right thing. Good luck, and hold tight, but sure it will all work out perfectly for you. Flowers

Afreshstartplease · 20/11/2017 13:40

Well done hannah

Hannah1x · 20/11/2017 13:47

Thanks ladies

Last time I sent my midwife a voicemail and text it took her 6 days to get back to me i really hope it doesn't take as long this time. It's her I need to see really and not a stand in midwife who hasn't gotten to know me and my partner

OP posts:
Hannah1x · 20/11/2017 13:51

Actually contemplating ringing social myself now so I don't have to wait in limbo.

I know it's not what my solicitor advised but I don't think I can stomach having sleepless nights for a week while I wait for the midwife to get back to me

OP posts:
GrabbyMcGrabby · 20/11/2017 13:52

Might be worthwhile unless you want your MW to act as a buffer. Or do it via your GP?