Pregnant after having child removed at birth

[Hannah1x]

Hi all, I'm desperate for some advice and would appreciate feedback from anybody who works in social work, has experience in law or has had personal experience with dealing with social services in subsequent pregnancies after having a child removed.

Im 24 yrs old. When I was 18 I was in an abusive relationship with a man who had an extensive criminal past of DV. He was known to social services due to his first born child being taken from him and an ex at approx 1 years old and the child was subsequently adopted.

I was young, naive and didn't know all the facts - he hadn't yet hurt me by the time I fell pregnant and I underestimated the risk he posed to me. I had no family in the area and was very isolated.

When I fell pregnant he became abusive, emotionally and verbally. I confided in a midwife at my first antenatal appointment with my concerns about his past and how he was acting with me now and i was referred to social services. They were involved with me from being 13 weeks pregnant, visiting the home and asking me to attend sure start centre classes which I did.

When I began to worry about removal I asked my SW whether I could move to another city closer to my family to help my case away from the father and I was specifically told not to because it would 'disrupt' the assessment process.

I found my sw to be very unhelpful and at 36 weeks pregnant they told me would go to court and remove my baby at birth without offering any alternative intervention despite me doing everything they'd asked. Prior to the PLO meeting which I was prevented from attending (my then solicitor was not acting in my favour) I again asked if they would support me leaving the town with my baby and I was told no, stay, no final decisions had not been made yet.

I don't feel as though I was given any support or encouragement to leave this man throughout my assessments and I accept I could have upped and left but I was young vulnerable isolated and very much under his control.

When baby was born at 38 weeks it was a Saturday, out of hours social services arrived at the hospital and told me they'd apply to court on Monday to remove my son. Foolishly, out of panic, I left the hospital with my son and took him home against their instructions. They told the hospital to call the police who came and got us, returning us to the ward where we had to stay until the social worker came to remove him on the Monday.

I didn't attend court as my solicitor said I was too emotional and it was best she go on my behalf. She said it would look better if I didn't oppose the order as it showed me accepting there was risk. I trusted her and agreed for her to go and speak on my behalf, again, and tell the court I don't oppose the interim care order being made temporarily. She didn't make me aware of any other options such as mother and baby units or mother and baby foster placements.

Order was granted on the grounds of my son being "at risk of emotional harm" and he was then taken from the hospital.

Back at home the physical abuse started where he would attack me and shortly after so did the sexual abuse. My ex coerced me into prostitution, which I am painfully ashamed to admit. I was in my own admission smoking cannabis as I struggled to cope with what was happening.

Social services had included in their mitigation that I had mental health problems which isn't the case, I've never been known to mental health services although I did have a very short period where I felt low, aged 16, where I was on antidepressants following the death of my grandparents.

While this was going on I continued to fight for my son in court, I sacked my solicitor who wasn't helping me whatsoever and began to represent myself for a period before I hired another. In my admissions I put my side across and the magistrates ruled that social services had not supported me properly prior to removal and they believed I should be given a chance to show I can look after my son. They ordered a mother and baby unit be found and me and my son taken there to be assessed properly, They wanted this done within a matter of weeks. I left the court feeling positive but scared as I knew babies dad would do something to sabotage this process and there was no orders put in place to stop him coming to my house (he had moved out and in with his mother by this point - at my request - albeit unwillingly)

Babies father didn't want this to happen as it would mean him losing control of me and me being away from him, so in the following week after the magistrates ordering social services to source a placement - he made my life hell. There was police logs from him attending my home and he sent to the social workers and court multiple indecent photographs of me telling them I'm a prostitute and unfit to be a mother.

Social services used this new information to appeal against the magistrates ruling and 'stay' the process of reuniting me with my baby in a mother and baby placement. My case was then transferred to another court in a nearby town as a result and as my son was over 6 months old by this point they wanted to conclude the case, they wanted adoption.

In one final bid to prevent the adoption I gave up my home and fled to a women's refuge where he later found me (it was a very small town and I believe somebody told him). He continued to make my life hell and I confided in the social worker about the extent of the abuse, begged them for support and was given none. My son's case concluded as adoption shortly after and there was nothing more I could do.

My ex continued to trouble me for several years. I had pressed charges for a number of assaults throughout the years, and also two counts of rape, he went on the run but unfortunately there was insufficient evidence and the CPS dropped the charges. Throughout everything I only ever managed to have him convicted of a public order offence due to a neighbour seeing him chase me down the street on an occasion shouting threats.

By the time I was 22 i was still getting grief from him and i finally found the strength to leave town. I moved to a city where my few family members were and began to rebuild my life. I was no longer smoking cannabis and suffice to say the prostitution was a thing of the past, that was only ever a factor when he was in my life- it's not something I enjoyed doing or wanted to do of my own accord.

I moved in with a relative, got a full time job and built up a good relationship with my son's adopters via our letterbox contact. I was happier and healthier than I had been in years. I missed my son painfully but accepted that adoption was the best thing for him at the time, it took me a long time to accept that.

At 23 Whilst working I met an amazing man who was a colleague, he was accepting of my past and very supportive - he had fathered two children himself and although separated from their mother he was an exemplary example of a father. You couldn't fault him. We fell pregnant but sadly lost the baby early on. Much to our delight we conceived again shortly after (this baby was very much wanted)

There was no doubt in my mind we could parent the baby well, I had a good support network around me now and he is a great man. He has no criminal record, a decent sturdy job and most importantly he is a kind man. I had turned my life around completely

I began to become frightened. Due to my past experiences with my old social workers I developed an irrational fear that our baby would be taken, so at my first antenatal appointment when the midwife asked if I had any previous social services involvement I told her no - I can't believe how stupid I was but I can't stress enough how scared I was. The fact i had miscarried not too long ago contributed to my decision, I wanted a stress free pregnancy and didn't feel as though I was ready to deal with social workers again after having such bad experiences with them before. I told them I had an older child just not that he had been adopted.

No referral was made and my pregnancy progressed well. Me and my partner saved up for a lovely little flat, a perfect place to bring our baby home to, and began preparing for his arrival.

As my due date approaches (I'm almost 31 weeks) I've been getting increasingly scared about giving birth and social services turning up to the hospital when I have our baby. My partner has never dealt with these authorities and believes they won't, but I'm frightened that something will come up on my file that will trigger them to come and remove him straight away as I've not been assessed since losing my son.

I accept that I will have to deal with social services at some point as I can't hide the past forever but naively I believed I could conceal it long enough to bring him home and evidence that I, that we, can be a loving and adequate family.

Can anybody tell me where I stand? Please no judgement. I'm already being very hard on myself losing sleep. I've contemplated referring myself to social services this week but am absolutely petrified of doing that. I'm equally as scared of them turning up at the hospital. Will this be the case despite me being in a different city hundreds of miles away?

The ex is very much out of my life and non existent these days. There's no police involvement or multi agency involvement for anything at all.

Hi OP. I think you need to be really honest with your midwife. It sounds like your life circumstances are very different now to what they were when your first baby was removed, so I don't think you need to panic. But I agree with PP that your previous involvement with SS will probably come out eventually, and it's better if it comes from you.

Hannah look for a solicitor who has experience in these matters. Take any decision only after you have sought legal advice from someone who acts in your best interest. Take your partner with you when meeting the solicitor or a friend as it's better to have two pairs of ears than 1. Also make notes prior to the meeting to raise all the questions you need. Good luck love.

They'll need to assess you again, but it sounds as though you are in a completely different place in your life.

I've worked with several women who have had a child removed, nothing changes except the partner and they get pregnant again, with the same result.

I have also worked with several women who have had a child removed and used this to change their life, move away, stop the drugs or alcohol, get a job, an education, a home and have gone on to have wonderful families.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE call Social Services yourself. Explain the situation, including that you didn't tell your midwife. They'll assess, they'll speak to your midwife. But honesty is the only way forward here.

I'm going to find a solicitor who has ample experience in family law when I finish work later on

I'm coming to terms with the fact an assessment will be inevitable hence posting here now out of desperation. Naively again I had hoped I could wait until I'm home before that gut wrenching process begins- but I accept that may not be the case so am bracing myself for that too.

So to clarify can anybody confirm whether my son's removal will be on my hospital file and unavoidably flagged when I give birth for sure? If so how come nothing has been mentioned prior when I've seen consultants etc.

It doesn’t matter really if it is flagged or not. You’re missing the point that at some time your past WILL catch up with you and the longer you’ve withheld information the worse you will look to SS and anyone else concerned for the welfare of your child.
If you act now it is reasonably easy to understand your reasons for not telling anyone until now. If you keep it secret for longer it only seems suspicious.
By all means seek legal advice first, but even then that could look suspicious. I would contact SS directly myself and ask to speak to someone quite senior.
And good luck with it.

Hi Hannah, it's great that you've moved on so much from your previous difficult situation.

You really must contact your midwife after speaking to a lawyer. You can't risk being flagged at the hospital when you give birth, that is much too big a risk to take. Be proud and show SS just all you have done to change . Thinking of you.

I used to work in a refuge and have been involved in similar situations at work.

No one can tell you for sure if SS will become of your baby if you don’t tell them. I’ve known people hide for a long time BUT that takes such s huge, huge toll and eventually the truth catches up.

Please don’t put yourself through that. Remind yourself that you don’t have snytha my to hide. You have changed. You WANT them to assess that and see that so you can be free and happy to continue your life without SS hanging over you.

Finally, get a good specialist lawyer. You need expert advice. Tell them everything. Give them all paperwork you have.

Then tell you midwife a social services.

You can do this.

I doubt you’ll be able to trust SS but try to force yourself to be open and accepting even when you feel like running. Protect yourself from them by getting s good lawyer, taking their advice and documenting everything.

You need to take the initiative here and contact SS and say you are pregnant, have previously had a child removed and want to work with them through this pregnancy to give yourself the very best chance of keeping this baby.

If you do this and then are entirely honest about the past, plus the fact you lied to the midwife in your first appointment, you will give yourself the best chance.

Don't imagine that it will be possible to hide the past or that even what you said to the midwife recently won't come out. You will need to show that you are determined to be honest and will be honest. This, plus being ale to show how your previous partner is gone, plus your own lifestyle has changed will give you the best chance.

It maybe that the previous proceedings were only sparked because of the partner being abusive. However, your leaving the hospital, cannabis and prostitution will all be on the record now. SS will need to assess if your own lifestyle is conducive to bringing up a child and also if you have enough self awareness of what being able to bring up a child looks like.

So don't deny any of the past. Be honest and clear that you are aware it all created a situation not conducive to bringing up a child. Don't try to explain it away as responses to the abusive partner, although you can put it in that context. Be clear that you understand those things were not and cannot be acceptable for bringing up a child and that your lifestyle is totally different now. Be proactive - ask if there is anything at all you can do to improve your position, and speedily carry out anything mentioned.

You will be assessed. There's no avoiding it. Better for it to happen sooner rather than later and for you to have time to show you are a new person and you are honest and co-operative. At every stage, even if you find things difficult or unfair, think very carefully about your actions and don't do anything which is dishonest with the social workers or shows you going against what they say. This is really important that you are seen to be cooperative and that you understand their actions are to protect the child.

Best of luck. You are very articulate on here - you should be able to present all of this clearly and well.

If their assessment of me takes longer than I have left to give birth would it be possible for babies dad to be given responsibility whilst they do what they need to do regarding myself.

I could leave our home for the assessment process it they wanted me to do that, though obviously I would prefer that didn't have to happen im prepared to do that if needs be.

My primary fear now is baby being taken straight into foster care and it being alot harder to get him back. I've heard of cases where suitable guardians have been identified as capable during these initial proceedings but then rejected, thus the baby going straight into the care system.

I try not to judge all social workers in the same light as the ones I had handling my first sons case. There's undoubtedly many, probably the majority, who want to help rather than punish - but after my own experiences the fear I have of them in general is huge

Hi
Great sympathy for you, it really does sound as though you have been through a nightmare situation but have come out of this well, and that is so important. As a social worker with some experience in cases like yours, please please tell Social Services and the the midwife the truth, it will look much much worse on you when it comes out other wise, as i think others have said, being open and honest and being able to work well with all services is vital. It is highly likely that somewhere along the line your past/history will come out and it is 100% better that this comes from you.

I do understand that you are worried and frightened and thats very understandable but the more that you try and hide things, or not tell things the worse it will look for you when it does come out, which it will somewhere down the line, and anyway, its not right that you have to live with all of this worry and stress now, its not as i am sure you know, good for you or baby.

Legal advice is also a good idea, but ensure that it is a child care related team who can advise in particular situation, but please please speak to your midwife. She will have to make a referral , its part of her duty, but as other have said it to protect people and also SS are not looking to take children away, they are trying to keep family together. It sounds as though you have a new life and new situation now and that it is very positive, that will all be taken into account. Each authority does things slightly different but some form of assessment will be done on you and your current situation and decisions will be made from there, i know it sounds scary but it is meant to help and support you and your family.

Best of luck

Hannah get legal advice first before you do anything!

As others have suggested find a solicitor who specialises in dealing with child protection, social services etc. It might be the first solicitor you speak to isn't the one you choose to use and you should be entitled to a free usually 30 minute consultation.

When you speak to solicitor, make sure they have ALL your backstory, no secrets nothing hidden, but also make sure you make them aware of how you were horrendously failed by social services in the past and how your fear of not being listened to without prejudice, helped, having your past held against you despite no longer being in that relationship and at the time a victim of abuse yourself.

Definitely get specialist legal advice. I'm an adoptive parent and my daughter's birth mum went on to have another two babies with a different father to the father of my daughter and she has been able to keep both children as SS could see that with abusive dad finally out of the way she had the capacity to be a 'good enough' parent. That's all they're interested in, and it's all any of us can do, try to be good enough.

I'm so sorry you had such s horrendous time and such thoroughly inadequate advice and support for your first pregnancy. You sound amazingly resilient, reflective and self aware. It sounds like you will be a great parent to your new baby. Please get specialist advice and be honest with your mid wife. Nothing you have written suggests that your new baby will be at any kind of risk with you and your new partner.

You need to get into a mindset of SS are the ones who are going to make keeping your child possible and a future without fear of removal possible. They are absolutely essential to a positive future for you.

If you just hope the past won't be realised, you will spend your pregnancy and birth and always after it waiting for a phone call or knock at the door, because the info had come out. And you know that if they find out. And you have kept quiet, you will be in a very weak position. I am a bit worried actually that you are even thinking keeping quiet could be possible, becaue that suggests a lack of insight into the whole situation.

So you must act speedily and get into your head that your action to contact them will help and not hinder. That might feel counter intuitive in the circumstances of the past, but it needs doing.

Do it today.
Who knows what records are being passed to who are what is about to be flagged as a warning from the past. Having seen a midwife you are already in the system. It's really important they hear it from you yourself....and you will have to put your hands up to your failure to mention it at that first meeting and acknowledge it was foolish and you are now contacting them because you know honesty is the only way forward.

No advice but want to wish you the best of luck for your future, I hope you can go on to lead a very happy life with your family. Your story is heartbreaking, but seems a lot of good advice on here for you. 💐

How long have you got until you give birth?

I agree that having a solicitor is important. However getting one could take time, so I think that making contact with social services now will be important, before it all is discovered by them, which could be any moment.

If you speak to them, ask for a name and email contact. Tell them that you will also email the info you have given them, so it is all in writing.
After speaking, so follow up with an email and also say what you think they saidninnresponse and ask for written confirmation of the details. Say you are keen for there to be no confusions.

Be clear that you understand an assessment will be necessary and you welcome the chance to show your change of lifestyle, supportive partner and co-operation.

You need to go back to your midwife and tell her about your past.

This was a number of years ago, but I knew someone who kept hidden that her first baby had been adopted in similar circumstances to you. It all came out the weekend before she was in labour, and, because checks then needed to be done etc baby was put into foster care.
It took over 6 months for them to get her back full time, and SS got slammed for letting it go on so long, but the court did say that the initial removal had been correct procedure, however if they'd known in enough time, then all the checks etc would have been done during pregnancy and they would have been supported in keeping their baby.

OP, a lot has changed in five years.

As harshly as it sounds they will not view you as a 'child' anymore.

You also are not alone.

You have what sounds like a wonderful partner and as long as you stick together, you have nothing to be frightened about.

Your baby is not going anywhere.

I think you're doing everything the right way and should speak to a family solicitor, are you in a financial position to possibly hire one? Maybe take them to your meetings?

My ADDs birth mum separated from abusive birth dad, grew up, and found a new, supportive partner. SS told them that any new child would not be automatically removed but that there would be monitoring to check they could cope (learning difficulties involved).

In terms of being able to hire a solicitor without legal aid that depends on a few factors, one being how they require payment IE hundreds/thousands upfront or a payment plan etc. A payment plan If possible would definitely be an option for us.

Me and my partner both work full time, but when I was three months pregnant I changed jobs and took up a long term position through an agency where I had to register as self employed, it was more money and we were saving to move so i jumped at the chance, however so I'm not entitled to SSP and have to claim a maternity allowance through the gov once I want to go on maternity leave. That being the case my finances will be dropping by a fair bit and my OH has agreed to pay the entirety of our rent out of his own wages at that point (we've been paying half each since we moved in) - this means that although we will be able to easily afford the cost of rent, bills living and of course our baby.. it doesn't free up a great amount of money for solicitors fees.

Would I be entitled to legal aid again, despite the fact we work? My guess would be no and that is a concern also. I know a little about the court process after representing myself for a period before- but I'm by no means solicitor material and feel I'm gonna need a strong counsel.

I think legal aid is free for anything to do with children and social services but someone could correct me if I am wrong. Call this number or your local citizen advice bureau to find out.

childlawadvice.org.uk/

I accept that I will have to deal with social services at some point as I can't hide the past forever but naively I believed I could conceal it long enough to bring him home and evidence that I, that we, can be a loving and adequate family.

I haven’t been through this personally but I’m very close to someone who has, twice. It went much better when she was honest from the start; they used the time that she concealed it against her massively. It showed a lack of insight and responsible behaviour.

Legal aid is difficult in these circumstances and although you’ll probably be entitled to it at some point; it’d be later than you needed it.

Please speak to your midwife as a matter of urgency. Explain everything honestly; be clear about the mistakes you made before and how you’ve changed your life, and offer to leave the home if needs be whilst they assess you and leave the baby with your current partner. As long as he’s responsible and has no hidden issues; your baby has at least one suitable parent - it’s not the same as it was before.

It is horrid, I know that. I’ve seen how much it hurts, and how much joy it sucks out of the pregnancy. But you haven’t given birth yet and you don’t need to keep running. You can turn this around. Good luck

This is heartbreaking OP. Frankly, it sounds as though you’ve (understandably) got PTSD in terms of your experiences with SS. I don’t have any experience but I would try and be open and honest. I hope that everything works out, you sound like you’ll make a lovely mum.

Would it be better to speak to my midwife first and explain everything or go straight to social services myself?

As mentioned I agree it would look a bit better coming from me, than if I were to be referred (by the midwife)

Although it doesn't excuse my leaving it so long, I was going to say to SS that I always intended to declare myself to them before the birth but out of fear (partly due to an earlier miscarriage) I wanted to ensure my pregnancy was stress free and thus 'out of the woods' before I was subjected to an assessment. I'm hoping that they'll be able to sympathise, although not condone, my rationale behind that.

In hindsight there isn't much rationality that has been shown on my part so far, but fear can make you do very silly things.

I'm also considering calling the second solicitor I had during proceedings with my little boy. She was much better than my first and did her best but by the time I had her on my case with me it was just too late to turn things around. Hopefully she can give me some practical advice. I don't suspect she will be able to take my case on this time as she's based 250 miles away close to where I lived before, but she knows my history in its entirety so is in a better position to advise than a solicitor down here during a 30 minute consultation.

I agree I probably do have a degree of PTSD to be honest. What happened has had a long lasting and permanent effect on me, I've never truly gotten over it but have learned to deal with it as time has gone by. I still look for my son's face in crowds whenever I hear a parent call out the name I gave him, silly I know.

My biggest comfort is that he's with a decent family who absolutely adore him, he has a brilliant life and I have the utmost respect for his adopters who have made sure he grows up knowing about me and telling him how much I love him

Personally I would go straight to SS as the Midwife will just have to refer you to them anyway, which will slow proceedings.
You can ask in your conversation if you also should contact the midwife to clarify the past situation. This will also show awareness of how everyone needs to know. I would assume thought that they will say they will pass the info on to midwife.
The sooner you can start building a relationship with SS the better.

Don't try to justify your deceit so far - just acknowledge that you haven't been honest and that this was foolish. You need to convince them that you will be honest in future and any sense that you feel justified in your actions might suggest you could feel justified in being dishonest again.

How long to go until baby comes? Is it very soon?