Urgent advise on grandparents rights pleaee

[Thethreeandme]

I'll keep it as short and simple as possible.
The paternal grandmother to my eldest two children is applying for access. Court ordered that my 8 yr old feelings should be gained. They were and she said she didn't want to see her because she wasn't nice and it would make her feel weird. These were not included in the report as it said my daughter could not give any logical reason why contact shouldn't happen.. SHE'S 8 WHAT WE'RE THEY EXPECTING a comprehensive account 😡 so I have to mention the dad.. is in prison and also hasn't seen the children in 4 years. No contact requested from him although he apparently supports his mom's ap. This will be terrible for my children whilst there is no physical safe guarding worries from my side the emotional damage it will do to my children will be awful. What do I do if court agree their recommendations. How successful are appeals in people's experience and what if I just refuse. . Surely as a mother I have more rights than this grandmother?? Please offer some advice this isn't going to happen I just need to know how I can prevent it tia xx

She's doing it to piss you off - no doubt as an agent of her son who has nothing better to do now he's in prison. Lots of prisoners spend a lot of time taking out legal cases and grievances of all sorts.

It's just an attempt to control you (and an extension of your ex's DV) and the fact that you are getting your life on track and moving on irritates them even more as you are clearly something they are not. I doubt very much any of them are seriously interested in the children as anything more than props but much time is probably spent in the pub bewailing how they are kept away from the beloved GCs.

Wolpertinger you are so right she made a page on fb that u was made aware of passing my photograph around asking people to find me saying that I'd stolen her beloved grandchildren that her heart breaks every day bht funnily the request for contact was only made 3 years down the line when her son got sent to prison

Wol, or maybe she actually wants to see her grandchildren?

Headinhands np I really don't think this is the case it has been very centred around her son and saying she should be able to take then to visit him in prison

she used to come over to my house f..ing at me chasing my car every time I left the house.. so I left and didn't tell her where I was..

Any chance you had any police involvement in that? Where there would be incident numbers/reports? some proof to back that up in court would be really good.

I really feel for you OP.

You're only going to make yourself feel worse if you see it in the worst light possible. It's not for you to decide why she wants a relationship. Concentrate on being the adult and broach the issue with your children so they're prepared. There is no need to catastrophise and assume it will be massively detrimental. It may well be something they enjoy.

Shouldn't he be able to see them in prison? I think prisoners are allowed to have visits from their children. I bloody hope they are anyway.

They are all out yes but there is zero chance in hell my children will ever visit a prison. . He chose to get himself in there my children won't visit such a cess pool surrounded by criminals getting searched. My children will not enjoy the contact they have made this clear and my job as their parent is to protect then against stress and angst

Yes porkpiehat I have this logged with the police will contact them Monday didn't actually think of this stupid me I didn't think that could of made a world of difference

Prisoners are able to have visits from their children. However that would be access to him, not access to her and is a completely separate matter.

Seeing as he hasn't applied for access to them and a prison visit from them, it's irrelevant. No doubt because he knows he wouldn't get it.

Raptorina makes a good point that if she does anything that could be perceived as harrassment (I know she doesn't know your address but she does know your mum's) please report it to the police and SS.

my job as their parent is to protect then against stress and angst

As much as you'd like to you can't. As a parent you're best bet it to show them how to deal with stress and angst.

there is zero chance in hell my children will ever visit a prison.

But if he wants to see them, he can. They'll only see visiting prison as something horrendous if they get that message from. Should a visit be arranged you'll need to keep a lid on your own feelings about it.

As for saying he made a choice, so did you so it's not really fair.

Totally disagree.. my children will not visit a prison. End of and I will make it out to be a horrendous place so when are grown up the idea of it terrifies them. Clearly my exs mothers views were a little different and look where he ended up. And yes I made a choice.. to live by the law. Hense me looking after my children and protecting them from being involved in this family given their unwillingness to change.. and not being in prison.

I think you are coming across really badly and need to talk to someone about how to present your case as it could all be massively twisted against you to make you look unreasonable.
You chose to have two kids with this man. The gran may well have a daughter with a boyfriend in prison , but your mum also has a daughter with a partner/ex partner in prison. She smokes - so do you.
Lifestyle judgements are going to help.
Focus on the reasons why not and stuck to them - gran has form for being abusive (show the evidence), your daughter doesn't want to, etc

I will make it out to be a horrendous place so when are grown up the idea of it terrifies them.

Your children won't abide by the law just to avoid prison. Do you abide by the law just to avoid prison? Or because you see why it's illogical/achieves nothing to beat people up etc There is a difference between visiting and being an inmate. I don't think it's helpful to transmit this idea of 'they will NOT be visiting him in prison' it makes it look like you see your kids as property and not individuals who have separate rights to you, such as the right to a relationship with their father. Again if you talk like this with Cafcass etc you will be viewed as obstructive and unreasonable.

I think you need to accept that there may well be some access granted. I understand it makes you feel uncomfortable but again, putting the children first, model a calm approach to it, be positive about it in front of them and it will be much easier for them then if they sense that you're angry about it all. They will follow your lead so you have the power to make it negative of positive.

I know but I don't know how.. I didn't expect it to get this far.. I so desperately do not want my children to have to go through this and as their mom it's being taken totally out of my control.. I will however stick to my guns re prison though. . When he is released if he applies for contact that's a different matter. . Until he is crime and drug free though I wouldn't want it to happen.. my children need consistency not dipping in and out

will however stick to my guns re prison though. .

As I said it's not just your decision. It may happen and you'll be better off getting your head around it in case it does happen.

Oh dear
I'm a SW and have seen unrepresented parents in court during private proceedings. You aren't coming across very well.
Have the children been used to contact with their father - do they have a relationship with him? If not then no, contact in prison isn't going to benefit them. If they did see him before he was locked up then you should be promoting letter contact for them at the least.
The section 7 must include the child's wishes and feelings. It doesn't matter if they can't give a reason; the wishes still must be in there.
The grandmother sounds like a nightmare but swearing snd being a bit rough isn't a reason not to allow contact. Your argument must be that it's not in their interest. Or you could agree to letter contact at first building to occasional face to face away from the grandmother's home.

You need to phrase everything in terms of the children, their best interests and risks - so for the grandmother things like the absence of a relationship, their previous experience of her being harrassment for which you have police reports, her not acknowledging her son's DV and criminal behaviour. And then your children's wishes - oldest doesn't want to because she remembers Granny is scary and banged on the front door and so on. You will need more concrete things than '8 yr old who can't remember her thinks she's weird'. And no lifestyle judgements about prescription drugs or smoking.

Your ex hasn't made an application for access yet but looks like he will when he's out of prison - then you need to go for the same stuff and with the DV to you he should never know their address so - they have no relationship with him and he hasn't pursued one for x years, when he had a relationship with him they witnessed violence, SS should be involved about their safety, should be supervised and brief as they don't know who he is etc etc. Plus the children will be older and their views taken even more strongly into account.

As far as I'm aware contact is only obtainable by extended family if there is an established relationship, and that the child would suffer should that cease.
That definitely isn't the case here, random extended family members can't just pop up when they fancy and decide they can disrupt the lives of children as they so please. The law is there to protect children from both the disruption of unstable relationships and the loss of positive existing ones. The job of CAFCASS is to determine what the relationship means to the child. If that hasn't been done accurately then I would go about finding the complaints process for the department and possibly contacting the ombudsman for advice.

The incident that was logged with police should presumably have come up in the CAFCASS schedule 2 letters and if not I presume you still raised it with CAFCASS when you met them for the section 7 interview, OP?

The police report was filed against the sister but mentioned grandmother as she was part of it.. there was not a relationship with the father for long as he was in prison got out.. no contact.. then back to prison after we split. The grandmother hasn't seen them for 4 years and even when the father and I were together there was no meaningfull relationship just the occasional Sunday lunch cards etc..the Cafcass report didn't mention my daughters view even though it was ordered by the court I wish I could legally upload it.. it didn't mention any of my safeguarding issues eg threats anger etc it did say that my children need to be reintroduced to allow a relationship to be formed.. wappers I couldn't agree more.. it should be what is in the children's best interest but it seems they are just trying to assist grandmother in anyway possible lady stark surely they are asking an 8yr old what kind of comprehensive answer are they expecting she couldn't document her feelings like an adult she was very nervous whilst he was asking her questions

You will have the opportunity to raise your concerns and to ask CAFCASS why certain things were omitted from the report at the final hearing, particularly if the court specifically asked for your daughter's wishes and feelings.