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Original poster

help!!! boundary dispute! I want a fence!

127 replies

mummytohpm · 13/05/2016 19:49

Hi!

I'm sort of new here. Commented on a few things but now I need some help!

Basically I want to build a fence to enclose my back yard. I am apparently not allowed to do this according to a lovely landlord who owns some houses on our street.

My house is a mid terrace - please see attached drawing to illustrate! I don't know how to explain it otherwise!

I own all the yard. Up to their back doors. It is shown clearly on my deeds. It is not shown on theirs - they only own the actual properties and it stops at their door steps. (I have seen 2 and 6 deeds) however it is referred to in the deeds as a 'common yard'

Right so I want to build a fence as shown but the landlord who owns house 2 and 6 reckons I can't.

Basically, 2, 4, 6, 81 and 85 have hanging rights and access rights over the yard.

In my deeds it stipulates that all the houses must be able to gain access to their properties and that the washing line must hang from 2,4, 6 or 81 over to 85s garage!

However - 85 doesn't have a garage anymore. They knocked it down last year. Also there is now a 7ft fence between us and 85 (for the record we have no issue with this personally)

So - for access building this fence wouldn't be a problem as we're not enclosing or blocking off anyone's door, and obviously 85 have their own access on the other side of their fence.

The problem is the hanging rights. The LL is saying that by building a fence we are obstructing these rights.

For one thing nobody hangs their washing out, and their are no lines. For two, the garage they should be attached to does not exist.

I have said to this LL that I will put a gate on the fence and either lock it and give them all a key should they want to hang their washing from my fence to 85s fence, or I will leave it open.

My solicitor has advised that this is reasonable and that the gate has to be wide enough for a wheelchair.

LL doesn't think this is good enough and has advised he will take me to court if I erect a fence. And charge me for the pleasure of doing so.

As a side note - this LL never had a problem with mr 85 building his fence or knocking his garage down. LL definitely knew about this when it happened as he lives about 5 doors up from mr 85 and wanders the streets all the time!

So can I legally build this fence?

I don't entirely trust my solicitor so before possibly being taken to court I thought I'd consult MN!

Thanks!!

help!!! boundary dispute! I want a fence!
OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
Original poster
mummytohpm · 13/05/2016 22:05

Noeuf - because when we bought it we were assured by the estate agents and seller that we could put a fence up and that she had one previously and there was no issues that and the fact that I am clearly a bloody idiot and far too easily sold

OP posts:
RandomMess · 13/05/2016 22:05

You'd pay him for his properties to lose the rights they currently have (even though they don't use them at the moment)

Original poster
mummytohpm · 13/05/2016 22:06

Yes only we can 'use it' for anything else all they are allowed to do is hang washing and walk to and from their houses

However when we moved in we had 6 wheelie bins outside our window and several cars used to park there but I kindly asked them to move bins and they did

Oh and someone left their car there and declared it sorn not so long ago!

OP posts:
RandomMess · 13/05/2016 22:07

Well you may have legal redress on the seller if you have proof that she lied...

Original poster
mummytohpm · 13/05/2016 22:08

Kidnapped - I do have. A mortgage. I didn't consider that. I will speak to them too.

No there was no fence but there are posts

It had been vacant a long time so I didn't think it was odd that the actual fence had gone I now realise that I should have questioned it much much further

OP posts:
Original poster
mummytohpm · 13/05/2016 22:09

I'm not sure that LL word is proof she lied unfortunately! :-(

It's her word against his isn't it?

If i went to court and it ruled I couldn't put the fence up - is there any come back on prev owner or estate agents?!

OP posts:
Original poster
mummytohpm · 13/05/2016 22:09

Also - how valid are these hanging rights now - what with me 85 knocking down the garage that is specifically mentioned?

OP posts:
BombadierFritz · 13/05/2016 22:10

Fencing off the back street would be a very good start - no more sorn cars!
Check with local authority in case it is not permitted
What are his grounds for stopping that??

RandomMess · 13/05/2016 22:11

Tbf I wouldn't want a 6' fence a metre or so from my back door/windows.

I wonder if you can come to an agreement with the LL to sell him part of the yard for the peppercorn amount of £1 and you pay the legal fees? Enough that it would increase the value of his properties?

Could you give them enough space to have rotary washing lines installed etc?

Original poster
mummytohpm · 13/05/2016 22:12

I may possibly need planning permission because it's against a road and I'm not sure whether or not it counts but will check nonetheless. Everyone else has a fence so can't see it being a problem

He says I can't do anything because I am not entitled to decide what needs doing Hmm

Basically he wants to leave it untouched and scruffy because he doesn't want to spend any money on it - even though I've explicitly said I would not ask for a penny!

OP posts:
Kidnapped · 13/05/2016 22:14

So if there was no fence when you viewed then you have to ask yourself why the previous owner took it down.

I suspect the LL is correct when he says that he forced her to take the fence down. She wanted to sell, and the only way to sell was to take the fence down otherwise he'd declare a dispute.

So he's got form for this. He'll do it to you if he gets a chance, OP. Probably so that he can put in a low offer for your place and hope that you are so desperate that you'll take it.

Honestly, I would just let things go now. Have absolutely nothing to do with LL and look forward to moving in 2 years.

Original poster
mummytohpm · 13/05/2016 22:14

Random - so could i sell him the land and then fence off the bit I want and get the deeds changed?

I would be happy to do that if it's possible.

To be honest I would supply and install as many bloody washing lines and or rotary driers all over my bit and their bit if it meant I could have a fence!

I said that to him, I'd have a washing line in my garden bit and they would be free to come in and out to use it - apparently not good enough!

OP posts:
BombadierFritz · 13/05/2016 22:15

I'd go right ahead with that back fence for starters and then claim all the yard

Original poster
mummytohpm · 13/05/2016 22:17

Kidnapped I realise now that there was clearly a problem before she sold it.

She sold it for a loss to us.

I would not have bought it if I knew I couldn't fence it off. The only reason we viewed it was because we thought we could.

Can I do anything about that. I feel like I've been tricked into buying something that was advertised but we don't have....

Also I wish I could forget it but it pisses me right off when it's a glorious weekend and I can't sit out and my washing is airing all over my bloody house!

OP posts:
JinRamen · 13/05/2016 22:20

Hang on...you are not entitled? It is your bloody land! Not his!

CuntingDMjournos · 13/05/2016 22:24

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Outnumb3red · 13/05/2016 22:29

If the back yard is described as a common yard then it isn't solely yours. Do the other properties access this yard directly from their properties ie does their doors also open directly into the yard?

peggyundercrackers · 13/05/2016 22:31

I would put the fence up then tell him to sling his hook. Sounds like him and his solicitor bullied the previous owner into taking the fence down. A lot of people will comply because they don't want the cost or thought of going to court, if your happy not to back down go for it. I don't think he would have a leg to stand on if you put a fence up with a gate in it.

RandomMess · 13/05/2016 22:32

I can't see that he can stop you fencing off the end of the yard that is on the street so I would look into doing that.

Whether or not there is a 2nd fence you won't have privacy in the garden but at least if you had the fence at the end it would be secure enough for you to start hanging your washing out there etc. Also so potted plants to for a line on your land to give you an area of boundary...

Lots of people do survive with just communal out door space and it would be better than what you have at the moment.

Original poster
mummytohpm · 13/05/2016 22:33

They don't use it at all. They all have front doors and use them. Very occasionally a small child will play out there. I think he is a friend of 81s child.

They go out there to out binbags in wheelie bins and put their bins out every other week.

Nobody hangs any washing out or uses the space for anything else

Also with washing - have said they can hang it in our bit where the sun gets it - don't have any problem with that. Happy to have their washing in there if they want to use it.

OP posts:
Original poster
mummytohpm · 13/05/2016 22:34

Their back doors open directly on to the yard yes

This is what confuses me

Common yard does suggest it is for everyone's use

However the land registry suggests it is owned solely by us

And deeds say they only have access rights and hanging rights nothing else

OP posts:
Original poster
mummytohpm · 13/05/2016 22:35

As for the ashes place - I presume that is in 85s garden?

I don't know what an ashes place looks like. Confused

OP posts:
Original poster
mummytohpm · 13/05/2016 22:36

Random - yes you're right a fence at the end would be better than no fence and it is definitely something I will consider

Would I be entirely out of order to ask him to contribute?

The deeds mention people paying for maintenance..... Hmm

OP posts:
RandomMess · 13/05/2016 22:44

I think you need to find out legally what you can do without his agreement and stick to that.

He isn't going to pay anything towards it is he because he wants to buy the property cheaply.

CodyKing · 13/05/2016 22:45

Is there by any chance a similar row of houses with the same layout?

Have you looked?

This might give you some president if others have indeed fenced off their land

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