help!!! boundary dispute! I want a fence!

[mummytohpm]

Hi!

I'm sort of new here. Commented on a few things but now I need some help!

Basically I want to build a fence to enclose my back yard. I am apparently not allowed to do this according to a lovely landlord who owns some houses on our street.

My house is a mid terrace - please see attached drawing to illustrate! I don't know how to explain it otherwise!

I own all the yard. Up to their back doors. It is shown clearly on my deeds. It is not shown on theirs - they only own the actual properties and it stops at their door steps. (I have seen 2 and 6 deeds) however it is referred to in the deeds as a 'common yard'

Right so I want to build a fence as shown but the landlord who owns house 2 and 6 reckons I can't.

Basically, 2, 4, 6, 81 and 85 have hanging rights and access rights over the yard.

In my deeds it stipulates that all the houses must be able to gain access to their properties and that the washing line must hang from 2,4, 6 or 81 over to 85s garage!

However - 85 doesn't have a garage anymore. They knocked it down last year. Also there is now a 7ft fence between us and 85 (for the record we have no issue with this personally)

So - for access building this fence wouldn't be a problem as we're not enclosing or blocking off anyone's door, and obviously 85 have their own access on the other side of their fence.

The problem is the hanging rights. The LL is saying that by building a fence we are obstructing these rights.

For one thing nobody hangs their washing out, and their are no lines. For two, the garage they should be attached to does not exist.

I have said to this LL that I will put a gate on the fence and either lock it and give them all a key should they want to hang their washing from my fence to 85s fence, or I will leave it open.

My solicitor has advised that this is reasonable and that the gate has to be wide enough for a wheelchair.

LL doesn't think this is good enough and has advised he will take me to court if I erect a fence. And charge me for the pleasure of doing so.

As a side note - this LL never had a problem with mr 85 building his fence or knocking his garage down. LL definitely knew about this when it happened as he lives about 5 doors up from mr 85 and wanders the streets all the time!

So can I legally build this fence?

I don't entirely trust my solicitor so before possibly being taken to court I thought I'd consult MN!

Thanks!!

Or something like this

So as I understand it LL has ignored 85's enclosure but if you do the same it will impact on his remaining houses 2, 4 , 6 etc?

I'm not an expert at all (understatement) but it seems like they only legally have access to the yard in order to walk from their back doors to Back Street. They can't park there, they can't have barbecues there, they can't build sheds there.

The only other thing they can do is hang washing there.

If you are not restricting access significantly (like only leaving them with a 2 foot corridor where bins would not fit) then then I suspect that your solicitor is right. The gate in the fence would enable hanging access if anyone ever wanted it.

Practically of course, you could just put a rotary dryer in the common yard.

It is tempting just to stick a fence up and wait for the other houses to claim a bit of that common yard. It could be tricky when you come to sell, though, when the deeds don't match up to what is on the ground.

Stayathome

Yes LL has ignored 85s fence / lack of garage but isn't happy with me putting a fence up

Ok - what did 85 deeds say - was their yard ever part of the common yard as such? How/what did 85 do about the garage hanging rights etc?

You need to knock his door

Bombardier - that could be an idea actually! I will speak to oh!

Kidnapped - never thought about selling aspect though we do want to sell in around 2 years

Having an enclosed garden would bump up the price though... Wonder would deeds make s big impact?!

If you want a copy of their deeds just go to land registry site and buy them, it's not expensive.

Cody

I've not seen 85s deeds

As far as I know the little wall (pictured) has been here pre mr 85 moving in

I don't think his land is part of the common yard however I don't think he really should have knocked his garage down or put the fence up.

Think hanging rights are mentioned in his deeds but his land isn't really part of the hanging space if you like!

I will speak to him we are on good terms! He said he'd stick up for me in court should it get to that!

Oh I didn't know you could buy deeds!

I will certainly do that!

"Kidnapped - never thought about selling aspect though we do want to sell in around 2 years"

In that case, I'd do nothing. The last thing you want is a neighbour dispute (which you would then have to declare) and then if the other neighbours start annexing part of the yard things could turn out messy.

Maybe do as Bombardier says and just section off a bit of the yard with a temporary divider for now.

Kidnapped - I don't want to start a massive dispute I just want to be able to use my own garden in private and sit outside in the sun with my baby and hang my washing out!

I also want to make some money on this house and fencing off would do that.

It's a shame that mr entitled LL thinks he can dictate :(

I could section a bit off but I fear that LL would kick off about that too.....

The area in question is very bare mummytohpm.
Why is that?

You accept that a legally fenced area would increase the value of your property but as I see it short term with a potential sale in two years you do not want a neighbour dispute on your records.

Option 1 offer to buy out LL rights. Very expensive.

Option 2 ask LL if he would consider a payment to legally agree a low fence without removing any access/hanging rights, say £5,000?- potential uplift £10,000?

Option 3 pave a distinctive area from the back of your house to the road at the end, place garden furniture, BBQ's etc, plant tactically in front of 2,4,6 and 81 and act if the neighbours try to do more than access or hang washing. IE other BBQ's would be disputed. This way you get full use of area, reasonable privicy and potential buyers can visualize what they are purchasing.

I can see why you would want to but I honestly think you would be giving away your land. Perhaps approach the LL and offer to sell it to him?

What do you mean by very bare?

There's nothing in the yard because it's entirely open to the back street. I don't want my things being taken/broken/messed with by kids who play in the street etc

That's why I don't hang my washing out because my pants would be in full view of the entire back street (it is a 'proper' street where houses look on to us)

To make use of the area I would at least have to put a fence up between the yard and back street - but the LL says he won't allow that either which makes no sense because it would probably increase the value of his properties!

Also I don't trust the neighbours not to take / mess with things eg barbecues / my pants

Just put the fence up, with a gate to allow hanging access and let him take you to court - he will lose.

Jinramen

Yes I would be giving a bit away but I would be happy with that just to get some privacy

I would sell him the whole house and yard to be honest but he wants it for a ridiculous price and we have done it up so there's no chance!

"Kidnapped - I don't want to start a massive dispute I just want to be able to use my own garden in private and sit outside in the sun with my baby and hang my washing out!

I also want to make some money on this house and fencing off would do that"

I meant that LL could state that you have an ongoing boundary dispute if you try to sell. It would mean that nobody would touch it. Sorry.

The fencing would only make you money if it overcame the deeds issue. A buyer will look at what is on the ground, look at the deeds and wonder why they are different. They'd then see that the other houses have taken over part of the common yard that is still owned by your house. And a solicitor would want all that to be resolved and that costs money. Trust me - most people would walk away at that point.

Also stayathome

Why should I pay him to let me put a fence up on my own land?

Especially such a low one that doesn't give me any privacy anyway!

I see what you mean kidnapped

Incidentally the last lady who lived here said that she had a fence up and never had a dispute

I have since found out from LL that that is lies and he apparently forced her to take it down

He could be bullshitting me though

If he's not - should I have been informed?

He doesnt want a fence across the back either?? Fuck him would be my response. I'd do that first (get a second legal opinion first) gate it and give neighbours a key.

So all the houses open onto it but only you can use it for anything other than access or hanging clothes? Why did you buy it?

Do you have a mortgage?

If you are effectively "giving away" your land, your mortgage lender would need to authorise that.

He doesn't want me to do anything to the yard!

Apparently I am not allowed to decide if any maintenance needs doing either according to his solicitor

That's because he would be liable to pay for part of it - not that I would ever ever ask him to! And I've said that!

"Incidentally the last lady who lived here said that she had a fence up and never had a dispute

I have since found out from LL that that is lies and he apparently forced her to take it down"

That's interesting. Did it have a fence when you viewed it?