What are the chances of us getting custody?

[MishMooshAndMogwai]

We're starting to look into seeking custody of 5yo dss. This has been building a long time and when social services got involved we were hopeful that things could progress however things have stalled with them and we feel that we should begin to take matters into our own hands.

Dss lives 100 miles away with his mother who lives a very unstable life. She has no family around her as she has driven them all away, has a history of substance abuse (evidence of which has been found in her house recently), a string of never ending abusive boyfriends and has not been in the same house for more than a few months at a time as she spends her rent money on drugs.

Dss has really been put through the mill and although emotionally he seems to have turned a corner and be improving, his education is suffering as she quite often can't be bothered to take him to school. His attendence is 60% so far this year.

That said, he is always clean and well dressed and I am told the house is spotless which is more than can be said for mine!

I am worried about the unstable nature of his life and his education and also the presence of drugs in the house.

At the moment we live in a nice 2 bedroom house but looking to move. We have 4 yo dd and 6mo dd and the children adore eachother in between the bickering!
The local school that dd attends would be brilliant for him with small classes and loads of one to one attention.
The school he goes to is good but there's only so much they can do if he isn't going!

I know that if he was here he would be so loved and supported and he could achieve so much. I hate the thought of him sitting there on his own with a pot noodle slowly turning into her while his mum screams at her new boyfriend in the kitchen.

Social services have been involved for about 2 years and have decided that despite everything (and that poor boy has seen a LOT) he has not been put at risk enough yet. Yet!

I've encouraged dp to support her but there's only so much he can do from here and she doesn't want to be helped.

I can't sit here and watch a lovely boy be ignored and ruined by a mother who can't/won't look after him.

So if we went for custody now, what would our chances be? I'm not hopeful but we need to try.

If he lived here then dp would absolutely do all the transporting as a) she doesn't drive and b) she wouldn't bother. Dss would need to see her though so dp would facilitate that as best he could.

3 in a 2 bed is far from ideal but doable while the baby is small and in with us. They have bunk beds in their room and the baby is just going into a cot in ours so dss has always had his own bed here.

I wouldn't expect money from her, or contact or anything, I have very low expectations of what she'd be willing to provide.

I think what is holding dp back is the anticipation of a row. She is very firey when she feels like she's being criticised.

Why did your dh move away? Was she coping well then? What went wrong? Moving so far makes it so difficult. Its perhaps in the childs best interests to have both parents near if one is unreliable.

As far as we know none of the schools have his details, he's not even an emergency contact. We do ring and tell them, and ask for copies of reports etc, but again they won't amend details without ex's permission.

We have a statement on our school website informing NRPs that they can request a copy of school reports, make appointments for parents evening, come to school productions, etc. We just need them to give us their contact details.

Haven't read prh47's link but our LA has guidance on how schools should work with separated parents. It makes clear that we should not favour one over the other and should share information with NRPs on request, unless there is an order preventing this.

bombadier as I said up thread, he moved down here to be with me. At the time she seemed stable enough with her family around her and no SS Involvement but that didn't last and he's already moved by then.

Out of curiosity with apologies if it's been discussed, but does your DP have any type of relationship with his ex's family? What's their opinion of her care for DS?

Slightly different situation but here's a scenarios happen to someone I know.

2 kids resided with dad when parents divorced.

Regular contact with mum.

Mum decides not to return kids after Easter school holiday contact.

Dad in full time employment, went to a solicitor, told it could cost thousands to fight for them to be returned.

No issues with either parents in terms of parenting, no drugs, etc etc

What I'm saying is just keep him if you feel that strongly. If mum then wants to fight for custody although she may get legal aid, what are her chances in the long term when she's a drug abuser.

Not ideal really but I'd go and see a solicitor and decide how best to approach it.

Do not just keep them. Very poor advice.

If you do for custody, you also need to think about your legal position in relation to this child. If, God forbid, after your dss has started living with you, something happens to your dp, you will be left with no legal parental role at all for a child you could have cared for for years. I have a friend whose partner is 100% the father to her daughter. But he is not the biological father, they are not married. Had something happened to her he would have been left with no rights over a child who is his daughter in everything except blood.

At the last count, her mother and brother have nothing to do with her after a row about her behaviour. Her father passed away shortly before dss was born and her sister, as far as I know, is the polar opposite to her but supports her as best she can for the sake of dss. From what dp/dss/his mum/her sister says it sounds like dss spends most of his time at his aunties house playing with his cousin while his mum 'runs errands'.

That's a good point lurker, thankyou. It's definitely something to think about.

Do you think her family would support DP getting custody or would they be likely to try to talk her out of it or back her if it came to a 'fight'? After all, it would result in him being moved away from them.

I second not just taking him. I think (but not sure) that a court wouldn't look kindly on a parent (of either sex) who took a child for their weekend and announced, nope, not bringing him back. Unless of course the child were found in deplorable conditions or had obvious signs of abuse.

It depends what you're classing as abuse across. I think it's the children's act that says the child must be provided with an education and at the moment that isn't being fulfilled. The same act states that all the child's emotional needs must be met and that isn't happening either. To fail on both count could be considered 2 counts of abuse. He doesn't have any bruises or signed of being physically abused but emotionally and educationally his needs aren't being met.

I don't know how her family would react. I think they're the kind to either ignore it and let her fight her own battle or go in all guns blazing in a 'we protect our own' kind of way. I doubt very much that they'd support dp.

He's only 5 though, so the age of statutory education might only just have started applying (is he summer born?). Absences before that dont really count for much. Plus he has had regular and ongoing social services involvement that presumably have not led to the conclusion he needed to be removed or placed with the other parent?

I'm not sure how they class 'truancy' here, Mish. In a child of that age I'd suspect they'd consider it 'neglect' and I'm not sure if that's separate from abuse or not. I'm sure it would be heavily considered as far as whether or not the parent is acting in the best interest of the child. I think the problem with educational neglect is that SS sort of treats it as a 'My bad, promise I won't do it again' issue rather than a removal issue, iyswim. Too many 'chances' are given. But it's certainly something to talk to a solicitor about, since it's something 'concrete' that you can have proof of from the school. Have you two made an appointment yet?

Too bad you can't count on her family's support. I think it's probably more likely to be an 'against one, against us all' attitude. Unfortunately.

I'm a shocked he'd move so far from his child, I can never understand how someone can do that.

Things must have gone very wrong for her in the time since they separated for all this to happen. Can't he move back closer?

The shitty comments have to stop, she says she's struggling and your dp's response it that he will take her child!

I'm not going to try and justify it for you lunar, he moved because I couldn't and we wanted to live together. That's that really. No, he can't move because WE can't move and we are a family unit although I've said already that it may be possible in the future but that's a long way off.

I don't think it was a shitty comment, it wasn't his first response, they've discussed the situation many times and it was a genuine offer, not in anyway sarcastic or 'I could do a better job'.

No, we've not made an appointment yet. He's working away this week and I don't want to go ahead and do it without him, this is his thing.

He is summer born, yes. I don't think I agree with the 'absences don't matter' comment. I'm a TA in KS1 and they very much matter to us as is it such a crucial time and regular absences make a big difference in achievement level.

Social services concluded that he hadn't been put in enough danger yet. Essentially they're waiting til he is and it's too late before they do anything.

Yes, I think it'd definitely be that kind of attitude with her family which is frustrating. They are the kind to inadvertently give a poor character reference though so that's something. During an interview she admitted to drinking 6 pints before picking dss up from school and thought nothing of it because it is nothing to her. Ss thought it was something obviously but only made a note of it.

I agree wholeheartedly that SS unfortunately 'has' to wait too long to take action. I say 'has' because at least here (US) they have had the pants sued off of them for cases where it was determined they'd 'overreacted' and removed a child. Since these cases are all confidential, you really never get the specifics. Just a news report that so-and-so county is being sued. In a way I guess it's damned if they do, damned if they don't.

I think lunar was way off base. What's wrong with a child's father suggesting to the child's mother that if things are too much for her that he's more than willing to take over primary residence? Who else should step up? And if he'd just blown her off or told her to get a grip, he'd have been vilified for being uncaring or a dead-beat dad. Can't win for losing.

I'm not sure what the thing is with getting all down on a parent who chooses to move away, as long as that parent keeps the relationship going to their utmost ability. It's not optimum, but both parents do deserve to have a life.

As a TA you know education isnt compulsory until the first term after turning 5, (england) thats all i'm saying, so its only a terms worth of absences. If they calculate it yearly, as my school do, that throws the stats out.
I am also still amazed at how her life has gone so downhill so quick since he movedd 100 miles away from his child

Ss tend to overact at the moment in the uk. People dont sue and the fear of leaving a child 'too long' makes them act quicker.

I disagree, I think it's a mixed bag with SS, particularly when there is no physical abuse.

Perhaps. Certainly low level neglect isnt going to get kids removed but serious risk of harm is treated v quickly and seriously. The risk of being sued isnt really a factor.

Again, I disagree - serious risk of physical harm, sure, but serious risk of emotional harm I think they're far more likely to miss things or turn a blind eye. It's so hard for them to prove their case.

Care applications are at an all time high
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/number-of-children-being-put-into-care-soars-despite-adoption-rate-freefall-10247911.html
Just answering AcrossThePond about the UK situation really. It doesnt really apply here as I assume ss would be looking to the dad to care if they thought it was that bad
I do agree tho about the emotional abuse being harder to id/action

Could you suggest that you have him for most of the summer holidays this year to see how he gets on? If she agrees with that and it goes well, you could maybe then suggest him changing schools and swapping the contact arrangements around.

Poor kid though, it's very sad.

bombadier is right about absences in reception. They aren't legally required to be in school until the term after they turn five and certainly our EWO, with whom I work very closely, won't accept a referral if the child hasn't yet reached statutory school age. They can keep an eye and monitor attendance once the child is of school age, but they can't legally do anything until then.