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Original poster

What are the chances of us getting custody?

106 replies

MishMooshAndMogwai · 26/01/2016 00:11

We're starting to look into seeking custody of 5yo dss. This has been building a long time and when social services got involved we were hopeful that things could progress however things have stalled with them and we feel that we should begin to take matters into our own hands.

Dss lives 100 miles away with his mother who lives a very unstable life. She has no family around her as she has driven them all away, has a history of substance abuse (evidence of which has been found in her house recently), a string of never ending abusive boyfriends and has not been in the same house for more than a few months at a time as she spends her rent money on drugs.

Dss has really been put through the mill and although emotionally he seems to have turned a corner and be improving, his education is suffering as she quite often can't be bothered to take him to school. His attendence is 60% so far this year.

That said, he is always clean and well dressed and I am told the house is spotless which is more than can be said for mine!

I am worried about the unstable nature of his life and his education and also the presence of drugs in the house.

At the moment we live in a nice 2 bedroom house but looking to move. We have 4 yo dd and 6mo dd and the children adore eachother in between the bickering!
The local school that dd attends would be brilliant for him with small classes and loads of one to one attention.
The school he goes to is good but there's only so much they can do if he isn't going!

I know that if he was here he would be so loved and supported and he could achieve so much. I hate the thought of him sitting there on his own with a pot noodle slowly turning into her while his mum screams at her new boyfriend in the kitchen.

Social services have been involved for about 2 years and have decided that despite everything (and that poor boy has seen a LOT) he has not been put at risk enough yet. Yet!

I've encouraged dp to support her but there's only so much he can do from here and she doesn't want to be helped.

I can't sit here and watch a lovely boy be ignored and ruined by a mother who can't/won't look after him.

So if we went for custody now, what would our chances be? I'm not hopeful but we need to try.

OP posts:
Original poster
MishMooshAndMogwai · 26/01/2016 11:40

four, thankyou. That is my thinking too. He is dps son but he is part of our family and we are a team.

OP posts:
Micah · 26/01/2016 11:42

No, the RP cannot just change the child's school without consulting the other parent

Interesting. DH's ex did exactly that. In fact we have no idea where his oldest is going to school next year as she won't tell us. All their school applications have been done without DH's knowledge. We can't make her tell us or stop her without going to court. We had to get a lawyer on their GP when she wouldn't tell us what long- term medication one of them is on.

Fact is NRP have very little control or input.

So yes, to get anything changed you need a lawyer.

Original poster
MishMooshAndMogwai · 26/01/2016 11:49

That's a good point actually, both dps ex and I chose nurserys and schools for our children with no input from their fathers. I doubt the school would seek the approval of dds dad if I decided to move her but they did want a record of both legal parents name and contact details.

OP posts:
Fourormore · 26/01/2016 11:51

You can just contact the LEA. If he has PR he has a right to know. Doesn't the child know where he is going?

People do things without consulting the other parent but that doesn't mean they had a legal right to do so, so yes, sometimes a prohibited steps order is needed but it shouldn't have been that way.

IAmPissedOffWithAHeadmaster · 26/01/2016 11:51

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Fourormore · 26/01/2016 11:52

As far as I know it's not the school's responsibility to seek consent from both, it's the responsibility of the parent to consult the other.

Fourormore · 26/01/2016 11:52

That's a nonsense too - child benefit doesn't determine anything as far as PR goes.

intothebreach · 26/01/2016 11:58

I was able to take ds1 out of school and home educate him, quite legally, without abusive exH's consent or knowledge (he will go mad when he finds out! ) I'm sure moving schools would be the same.

I would also be able to sign for medical treatment if needed. Even though we both still have parental responsibility, we wouldn't both need to be present.

Op, it sounds like a really difficult situation. I'd be inclined to get specialist legal advice and apply for residency, as that would trigger a cafcass report, and the views of your dss would hopefully be taken into account.

aginghippy · 26/01/2016 12:04

You really need to speak to a family lawyer about it. They will be able to give you detailed, specialist advice tailored to your dss's situation. None of us anonymous strangers on the internet can do that.

If you and your dp speak to a solicitor, that doesn't mean you need to immediately start legal proceedings. It can be purely for information gathering and advice purposes. Then you can take time to mull things over.

prh47bridge · 26/01/2016 12:22

Fact is NRP have very little control or input

If your DH has PR he has the right to a say in where his child is educated. However, the authorities will assume that an application from the RP has the consent of both parents unless the NRP tells them otherwise.

Your DH also has the right to receive communications from his child's school.

You may have to go to court to enforce his rights if the mother is uncooperative but those rights exist nonetheless (barring court orders removing those rights). If your DH took the case to court he wouldn't need a lawyer. It should be a straightforward case and an easy win.

SuburbanRhonda · 26/01/2016 12:36

However, the authorities will assume that an application from the RP has the consent of both parents unless the NRP tells them otherwise.

That's very interesting. You would have to assume as well that the NRP was aware of the RP's intentions, which IME is often not the case. You can hardly object to something you don't know is happening.

SuburbanRhonda · 26/01/2016 12:37

As exemplified by intothebreach's post.

Micah · 26/01/2016 13:01

That's very interesting. You would have to assume as well that the NRP was aware of the RP's intentions, which IME is often not the case. You can hardly object to something you don't know is happening

YY. Schools, at least, are relatively predictable so an on-the-ball parent will know when applications are going in etc. Medical care, however, less so. We knew, obviously, Dsc had a diagnosis. We did not know he had been prescribed some heavy duty medications until the 5 year old asked why daddy didn't give x all the medicine too. As I said the Gp refused to discuss it without the ex's permission, so we had to pay a solicitor to write a letter pointing out that legally Dh had RP so she was obliged to give the information.

We can't do it every time though, we simply can't afford it. As far as we know none of the schools have his details, he's not even an emergency contact. We do ring and tell them, and ask for copies of reports etc, but again they won't amend details without ex's permission. Which means more legal fees...

Lonecatwithkitten · 26/01/2016 13:02

Get legal advice on your individual situation.
In the absence of a court dictated contact order if one parent prevents contact with the other parent social services will write to both parents advising them it is a private matter between them. I have received that letter after I prevented my ExH having contact with our DD for a period after he and/or his partner systematically verbally abused our DD and he was arrested and convicted of drink driving twice over the legal limit with our DD in his car. I took these steps under legal advice protecting my child's welfare siting the children's act.

Micah · 26/01/2016 13:04

Oh and DH has the kids about 70/40, (every week f-S) he's not an uninvolved parent before anyone says anything. He goes to every parents evening etc that he can, takes them to their activities on a weeknight. He can only do so now because they're old enough to phone and invite/ask/keep him informed...

blaeberry · 26/01/2016 13:18

What does the child's mother think? There is an assumption here that she wants to continue to be the majority resident parent. There may be a chance that she would prefer that the residence arrangements were swapped?

Original poster
MishMooshAndMogwai · 26/01/2016 13:45

blae a few weeks ago she mentioned that she was struggling with his behaviour when dp went to pick him up. Dp told her that if she was struggling then he would take him and he could live with us and he'd do it in a heartbeat. She knows that it's an option if she wants but but dp suspects that she doesn't want to lose face.

OP posts:
MumOnTheRunCatchingUp · 26/01/2016 14:42

You could try 'selling' it to her then, in a way where she doesn't lose face

She might realise she would have to pay maintenence tho

Original poster
MishMooshAndMogwai · 26/01/2016 14:48

She'd realise that she would only have to pay the bare (bear?) minimum as she's unemployed. I wouldn't hold out much hope of getting any money from her at all tbh and would feel a bit odd demanding money from her when we begged for custody of her son. I imagine dp feels that way too but I might be wrong.

He's said for a long time that if he gave her enough money then she'd give dss to him. I didn't believe him at first but I definitely do now :(

OP posts:
Atenco · 26/01/2016 15:29

"a few weeks ago she mentioned that she was struggling with his behaviour when dp went to pick him up. Dp told her that if she was struggling then he would take him and he could live with us and he'd do it in a heartbeat"

Well your dp's comment wasn't really very helpful, was it? Surely every person has occasionally problems with the behaviour of their child and would like to talk about it with the child's father, without the default response being an offer to totally remove the child from their home.

Original poster
MishMooshAndMogwai · 26/01/2016 15:40

I'd agree with you if that was a one off comment.

She regularly rings to ask dp to speak to dss about his behaviour etc which is fine, don't get me wrong, but they often discuss these things together. It wasn't a one off that he pounced on.

OP posts:
BombadierFritz · 26/01/2016 16:49

Does he usually make other, more helpful and less undermining, comments? Its a pretty crappy unsupportive response by itself, as i am sure you can imagine having a similar conversation with your ex about your dd. Do they work together on discipline usually?

AcrossthePond55 · 26/01/2016 17:06

She may very well be struggling. But that's a far cry from being willing to have DS live with his father. When it comes down to it many women aren't willing to give their children up whether for financial reasons (loss of income) or as a pp mentioned, loss of face. Even if they actually don't want to deal with the child anymore, if they actually wish the child lived elsewhere. I've seen cases where the mother viciously complained about what a burden and how 'wicked' a child was, but when offered for relatives to take the child they won't do it because they don't want to be thought of as a 'bad mother'. And only a 'bad mother gives up their child.

If you think she'd entertain the notion, your DP could sit down and have a serious talk with her about it. But I think he'd need to present her with a specific plan. One that she'll feel is to her advantage, practically and financially. You may have to agree to no financial contribution. You may have to offer to do all transportation to and from hers and offer liberal access. And you do run the risk that she'll react with fury and as a result cut your DP's access off.

He really should see a solicitor first, though.

prh47bridge · 26/01/2016 17:15

they won't amend details without ex's permission

Point them to this guidance produced by the government earlier this year. It sets out the school's responsibilities towards NRPs regarding communications, consent, etc.

NorthernLurker · 26/01/2016 17:39

The child's school attendance is 60%. Unless he has been very unwell which the OP hasn't mentioned that fact alone, without anything else, is seriously concerning and reflects real harm being done to his prospects. In those circumstances I think the Op's dp saying he would happily take the child in to his home was a reasonable comment. If it were my child that my ex was failing to educate my remarks would probably be somewhat stronger.

Op - I think you need to expedite your moving plans because three kids is a lot in a two bed, seek legal advice and try as a first port of call agreeing amicably with the mother that dss will move in with you, attend school in your area and see her two weekends a month. Don't be thinking you can give her the three your dp has or you'll end up with no family time at all at the weekend. Contact to be periodically reviewed and if your dp can stop working a weekend that would help. Whatever you agree get it drawn up as a legal agreement though. I suspect you may find she is happy with that if you are carrying the expenses and she still sees her son regularly. it won't do her chances of making a proper life for herself much good as without the need to care for the child she's likely to just live a more unstable life but she's not your issue.