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Original poster

DPS & idiot LL

34 replies

UsernameNil · 26/02/2015 17:41

I've been reading the rules about the DPS scheme and even trawled through multiple pages of LLZone but I can't get and info on this situation.

I need to be vague in certain details but let me just say, I'm dealing with a complete idiot. This is not a LL bashing thread, it's an idiot LL bashing thread Wink (previous LL was fab btw)

Been in current private rented property a number of years, first 6 months AST then rolling SPT since.
First 6 months was managed by a letting agency then the LL was to manage when the tenancy went to SPT.

The LL has behaved like a total arse and is on a power trip at the moment and we are expecting a s.21 at any time because we won't be bullied in to unreasonable terms and living conditions (that's all I can say just in case LL is on here)

I've dug out the paperwork we received when we signed up for the tenancy and from what I can see LL has fucked up in quite a few areas.

One is the DPS legislation. The LA received the deposit and logged it with the DPS in the correct time scale, the only evidence of this is an email from the DPS to confirm. At no point was the prescribed information given to us (should have been within 30 days) and there is only a vague reference to the DPS scheme in the tenancy agreement, all about the LL's right to deduct and nothing for us to raise a dispute etc.
So that's one breach anyway.

However, looking at the email from the DPS it has the LA name and address under LL name and address. The LL's details are nowhere to be seen.
I've logged on to the DPS site but it doesn't show details for any LL or LA although it is still secured.

As I understand it, the LL should have changed the details and issued the prescribed information when we went on to a SPT. We didn't receive any email from the DPS to say any change was made, which they state that on their website.

I don't want any financial gain etc I just want what is owed to me. My deposit back in full (house is in better condition than when I moved in thanks to me) and a reference to secure another property. (And it would be the icing on the cake to put the willies up her so to speak Wink) I want out!

There are a few other issues but this is the one thing I can't get any info on.

As far as I can tell she's fucked isn't she? Any s.21 would be invalid and I can demand my deposit back immediately.

I want to leave but knowing this could help me secure a property I want rather than taking something I'm not happy with in a rush.

Any advice would be much appreciated.

OP posts:
Original poster
UsernameNil · 26/02/2015 17:42

Oops, sorry. I didn't for my post to be that long!

OP posts:
InfinitySeven · 26/02/2015 17:44

Hmm. My landlord was pretty good but we only had the email from the DPs and they left the agency details on when it stopped being managed. Nobody seemed to think it was strange. Watching with interest.

UmizoomiThis · 26/02/2015 17:45

Well all she needs to do is a bit of paperwork and then it's valid again. So no, she's not "fucked".

Nolim · 26/02/2015 17:51

My understanding is that once she protect it then she can proceed as usual.
If the deposit is not protected the court can order her to pay up to 3 imes the value of the deposit. But fot that you have to go to court and the court may rule on her side after all.

Can you hire a solicitor? I hired one to deal with my LL from hell and it was totaly worth it.

Original poster
UsernameNil · 26/02/2015 17:59

The DPS states that although it is secure, if no prescribed information was given then any S.21 notice is invalid until LL returns deposit immediately, then a new S.21 can be served because no deposit is classed as being taken iykwim

As for giving the paperwork now, that ship has sailed because she was supposed to have got us to sign something as proof of it being given.

OP posts:
Original poster
UsernameNil · 26/02/2015 18:02

Sorry, forgot to add.

When the management of the property was changed over from then LA to the LL they should have updated the details to show that it has 'changed hands', although LL never physically had it.

OP posts:
InfinitySeven · 26/02/2015 18:04

Ahh.

I think the email counts as the prescribed information.

It appears that it does as long as it tells you where your deposit is being held, how much is being held, and how to apply to get it back (or a link to that information).

MrsFlorrick · 26/02/2015 18:05

If your LL wants to validate his S21 then yes he would have to return your deposit and then S21 you.

However if he can prove that he did forward the relevant information regarding DPS to you then I'm afraid any S21 served will be valid.

Besides your deposit is DPs protected so you will get back what you're owed at any rate.

If for instance you received a letter or email with a link to the DPS site where the relevant information is stored as a pdf, then this will more than likely be enough in terms of providing the relevant information.

In other words don't just rely on the Shelter website telling you that you can demand your deposit returned for any S21 to be valid. It can be more involved than they suggest.

InfinitySeven · 26/02/2015 18:07

Or maybe it doesn't. I'm really confused now.

Original poster
UsernameNil · 26/02/2015 18:10

I get what you're saying and I specifically looked for that info wrt the email from the DPS.

But on the DPS site it states that the email does not count as prescribed information and they don't issue it, it is the responsibly of the LL and it is about 15 pages long.

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YesIDidMeanToBeSoRudeActually · 26/02/2015 18:10

The deposit is still protected though under a deposit scheme?

At the time it was initially registered the legislation wasn't clear that the prescribed information had to be received and acknowledged by the tenant. It also wasn't clear the the info should be reissued when the intitial tenancy became periodic. If you look into the "super strike" case in court of appeal, this was when this was clarified. I think from memory it was 2012 or 13. There was lot of outcry at the time as it is a case of overkill, technically a periodic tenancy "renews" every month so should the prescribed info be issued to the tenant every month?!

So I'm afraid that if it was registered correctly at the beginning of the tenancy there doesn't appear to be any major fuck ups, sorry to burst your gleeful bubble! Smile

(If all you want is your deposit back in full, just make sure you leave the property in the same condition as the original inventory. It may be worth agreeing a reference wording with ll when notice is issued as if they issue notice, they will want you to secure something else)

I think you are thinking of the fact that if the deposit wasmt and never had been registered, a section 21 cannot be issued and tenant may be entitled to three times the deposit amount, but this doesn't seem to be the case here.

Original poster
UsernameNil · 26/02/2015 18:13

My old LL didn't do this, same situation but he was lovely and I had no need to find out this info.

As it stands, any notice she gives is invalid (fact) but this is extra info to sit on in case I should need it.

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YesIDidMeanToBeSoRudeActually · 26/02/2015 18:16

Cross posts.

OP for a penalty to be imposed on the landlord as you wish, this would have to be made by a court. The only legal precedent at the moment is the superstrike ruling, but I have been made aware that there is a lack of precedent and other judges would not necessarilly make the same ruling.

Original poster
UsernameNil · 26/02/2015 18:17

I read the super strike case.

I know that going from an AST to a SPT doesn't count.

It's the fact that no prescribed information has ever been given and the only registering of the deposit is under the name of the LA, who we haven't dealt with for years, and not the LL.

OP posts:
YesIDidMeanToBeSoRudeActually · 26/02/2015 18:17

Username, it's not necessarily invalid. You really need to take some specialist advice from a solicitor. Googling won't cut it!

Original poster
UsernameNil · 26/02/2015 18:20

Argh, sorry. I'm on my phone and missing bits.

Basically although the tenancy continued, because there were changes to the management of the property and who the deposit was named under of serving of notices, also reflected in the tenancy agreement, the tenancy did change, the prescribed information should have been re-issued as a matter of course.

OP posts:
Original poster
UsernameNil · 26/02/2015 18:21

You're right, I need to ring the DPS I think.

Thanks for the advice, much appreciated.

OP posts:
YesIDidMeanToBeSoRudeActually · 26/02/2015 18:23

See my post of 18.16. You can take your chances in court if you're so sure it's "fact" but I would urge you to pay to see a solicitor specialising in housing law first!

YesIDidMeanToBeSoRudeActually · 26/02/2015 18:29

I would be aware also, that in the superstrike case (to the best of my recollection) the deposit hadn't been protected at all.

I'm no longer in this field so there may well be more up to date info, I think there has been another case at county court level. It's definitely worth seeing a solicitor as housing law is complex, and it sounds like there are other issues. The landlord and tenant acts are more secure ground, so repairing obligations and so on! And I hope you have a gas safety certificate, as this is very secure ground Smile

If you don't want to pay for a solicitor, the housing office at your local council may be of help. Good luck.

Original poster
UsernameNil · 26/02/2015 18:32

I would just like to point out I'm not looking to sue LL for anything, I just want my full deposit back.

This is a LL who is a shyster and never maintained or repaired the property, I don't trust this person one bit for trying to deduct money from the deposit. I know we can raise a dispute but that's not the point. She's an idiot and needs to learn that just because she has money to buy properties and rent them out, she can take the piss out of people.

OP posts:
Nolim · 26/02/2015 18:34

Fyiw i didnt hire a solicitor to sue. I hired him to get my deposit back. My LL was not answering my calls or emails and my deposit was not protected.

Original poster
UsernameNil · 26/02/2015 18:41

There are other issues, and serving of notices now would be invalid anyway because one glaring mistake she's made in our correspondence. I don't even think she has a copy of the tenancy agreement because she should have spotted it.

I want out of this place, the thought of giving her any more of my wages pisses me off (of course I will continue to pay)

Court isn't something I realistically see happening, we are leaving, no rent arrears/damage etc

I want to leave on my terms and not hers.

As for gas safety, she always got the inspection done, but she has got any of the recommended maintenance/repairs of appliances done, although they haven't been condemned.

Cheers for the help, I might update in a few days.

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YesIDidMeanToBeSoRudeActually · 26/02/2015 18:41

Oh dear, that doesn't sound good. The majority of landlords and tenants are good people, but like everything, it's the minority that fuck it up for everyone else!

Safety regulations are very tight so if there are any breaches here, I would go for it! Housing officer definitely the best port of call. There are standard health and safety assessments for rental properties as well as gas and electrical safety regs so all landlords should be aware of their responsibilties. It literally can be a life or death situation and should be taken very seriously.

YesIDidMeanToBeSoRudeActually · 26/02/2015 18:43

We keep cross posting, I am a slow typer sorry!

I hope you get sorted, if you want to update, or even PM if I can help with anything let me know. I'm "retired" from this area but it's nice to flex my brain again Smile

Original poster
UsernameNil · 26/02/2015 18:49

I'm on my phone and trying to cook dinner, slow typer here too!

Thanks for everything, be interesting to see if this is 'something'.

I loved my old LL, unfortunately he only owns flats and not houses, otherwise I would be calling him in a heartbeat Smile

OP posts: