Can this actually be ordered in a court?!

[CouthyMow]

I am asking on behalf of my friend.

Background situation : she has four DC's. Her first two have different fathers to her second two. She split up with the father of the youngest two about 3 months ago.

At the first court hearing, an occupation order was made for her abusive ex to move back into the house. With much help from me, she managed to go back to court, higher court rather than local (different judge, local one well known for being very misogynistic). Got occupation order lifted, but had to let him into the house from 8.45-3.45 every week day, and all weekend every other weekend.

Her oldest two DC's refused to share the house with him from the moment the occupation order was made, and stayed with my friend's mum.

He is making all sorts of spurious allegations about my friend, all untrue.

For the holidays, the order stated he was allowed in the house from 8.45 Monday till 3.45 Thursday. The older girls moved back in as they missed their mum and their younger siblings. The ex moved in with the next door neighbour.

We got Women's Aid involved, who were
horrified. They got an earlier court date, today, and CAFCASS were meant to prepare a report on the effect this was having on the older two DC's having someone who has been abusive to them and very verbally aggressive towards them, in their home. It wasn't complete in time.

My friend has been told in court today that she HAS to leave the house from Monday through till Thursday. Her older DC's (15 and 10yo) can stay though. But they don't WANT to if he is there and their mum isn't there to protect them and stand up for them. She was also told that given his (UNTRUE) allegations against her, the court could seek a Section 37 and get ALL FOUR of her kids put in Foster Care.

My friend is in bits, her ex repeatedly tells her that he is going to destroy her, he will take all FOUR DC's away from her (even the two that aren't his and hate him and don 't even want to be in the house when he is there), and he will take the house away, and he won't stop until she is in the gutter.

Can the courts REALLY do this? It seems to me like they are complicit in his abuse of her!

And she has just texted me to say that her 4-weekly child benefit hasn't been paid today, and she has JUST opened a letter saying that he is trying to get her child benefit.

Please, tell me what I can do to help her, the courts are helping her ex to continue to abuse her she is in bits.

The courts are leaving her homeless for 3.5/4 days out of the week, when it is HER housing association house, HER tenancy, he wasn't even a joint tenant FFS!!

Bloody hell! This sounds horrific... I have NEVER hears if judges ordering access to a house with his family in it, HA or not!

Speak to housing officer. They may help
Women's aid again
Shelter? Cab? Solicitor? Cafcass need a kick too.

I am horrified

Child benefit.... It shouldn't be stopped. She will have to sign a letter to get it handed over to someone else.

Were you in court with her?

The short answer is yes. A court can make an occupation order like that and direct that a s37 is carried out to investigate the circumstances. If it's found a parent's behaviour is causing harm to the children they can recommend a child is taken into foster care.

What your friend needs to take on board is there is a difference between Women's Aid who for therapeutic reasons validate all allegations of abuse and the authorities. The authorities are well used to allegations and counter allegations and without evidence from independent professionals (teachers, social services, doctors etc) a judge will have difficulty choosing between two sides of the same story. YOur friend's case sounds messy and if she hasn't already done so I would suggest she consults a family solicitor.

Apart from the occupation order I had the rest, he stopped after a few years. WA told me if would turn his attention to his current wife eventually, I assume she is being tortured now low grade, which will change. I think men like that do that to all their partners, I have a feeling he did the same to the girl he lived with before me.

Thing is, he is claiming the child lives at HER house WITH him. She is petrified of losing her DC's into foster care, but he is alleging that she beats her children and takes drugs. None of which is true.

Child benefit haven't just stopped the money for the youngest DC that her ex has put in a claim for, they haven't paid for the other 3 as well.

She has to fill a form in and they have to go investigations. The thing is, through the summer holidays, based on the current court order, he DOES have the child slightly more. In her house.

He has done this before, with his now adult twins and his ex wife, he got the house and kids and literally drive her to a nervous breakdown, she ended up having to have inpatient MH treatment. His adult twins no longer speak to him!

She didn't have HER solicitor at this hearing, it was an emergency hearing that SHE requested to try to stop him from having access in HER home. As he was verbally abusing her 15yo and 10yo. And having him in their home was distressing them. She had a barrister's assistant today as her solicitor was on a course.

He has told the court that he wants the house and two youngest DC's, she can move in with her mum with her two older kids and get rehoused. But it's HER fucking home!!

She has an appointment with women's aid tomorrow morning, to find out the results of the Marrack meeting (?) that was held last week called by Women's Aid as they are classing her as a high risk case.

CAFCASS have said that they can't do the report before her pre arranged court hearing next week, in fact they can't do it till November. What they said on the phone is that they will send someone from CAFCASS to that court hearing.

Oh, and he has called the police on her so many times for basically nothing and made up stuff that the police themselves have warned him that if he does it any more they will urge her that it is harassment.

He stopped doing that (he was doing it daily/every other day) the day before the claim form was dated for child benefit...

Why would Women's Aid (after talking to the police) call a Marrack meeting though, if it wasn't deemed that she was suffering abuse from him?

He sounds far worse than my ex.

Contact his first wife and hope she or the twins help.

Another lesson for women to not always believe the mad ex story.

Even though he is verbally abusing her older DC's, the court have told her that she MUST vacate the house from 8.45am Monday till 3.45pm Thursday, but her older two DC can stay there.

How can the courts order her to be away from her older DC's, who have no biological connection to him and DON'T want to be anywhere near him? They CAN go with her, but then she is basically homeless with two DC's for half the week?!

Surely she could lose her Housing Association home if she is away for half of every week? That is a breach of her tenancy conditions AND her entitlement to housing benefit. How can a court ORDER her to breach her tenancy? Which takes precedence, her tenancy agreement or what the court has ordered?

I should add that last time they split up, when her 4yo was 1, he hit her and she had to get an injunction out against him. She took him back as he promised he'd changed...

I would walk away if I were her with the older two, keep them safe, get sorted and go
back for the youngest. I fear she will loose all otherwise. Use sibling relationships to get youngest back.

Forget the house, let housing association dump him out of it, tell wa to call to tell them what he is like.

It doesn't matter whose house it is. Spouses automatically have a right to live in the former matrimonial home and co-habitants may apply to court to give then occupation rights on a short term basis.

When allegations are made the court shouldn't assume they are true, but they may treat them as though they might be true until investigations are carried out.

MARAC is a Multi-Agency Risk Assessment Conference to assess risk.

Did she report the violence to the police?

He would be in breach of tenancy if so. HA's are strict these days.

The worst of it is, she IS proposing a decent amount of access, nearly 50-50, ALL she wants is for that to take plAce outside of HER HOME.

I could understand it all if she said nope, no access whatsoever, but she isn't. She just doesn't want him in her house. Surely to God she has that right?!

You would think the house being in only her name would be for herself only. I can't understand this.

That means none of us are safe from abusive ex's then?

There must be more to this

She CAN'T leave - she will be making herself intentionally homeless (we have checked this with the council). They then will refuse to put her on the housing list.

Which leaves her with private rented as her only option. Our council has NO rent deposit scheme. She will also lose HER deposit that she paid for the HA house.

This area, for private rented 2 bed is £850-£900pcm. Housing benefit max is £450 for 2 bed. Not doable. The only estate with an affordable private rented 2 bed (if you exclude the deposit) is impossible to get back here for school by bus on time. Her 15yo is just about to go into Y11. The other school on THAT estate doesn't offer 3 of the GCSE's she is doing.

Believe me, we looked into all this!

Put her up. He is probably a narc, or anti social personally disordered. She has to walk away with the two oldest.

He hasn't hit her THIS time, this was last time they split up. It can be abuse without being physical abuse. This was financial and emotional abuse, and being verbally abusive. Police say they can't do anything because it's not illegal unless he THREATENS the children. Instead he plays mind games with them, refusing to allow them to be in the same room as their siblings, shouting and hissing at them that they aren't allowed to touch or go near HIS children, telling them they're thick and ugly things like that. But no threats.

And the mind games he plays! He moves the older girl's mirror from the unit to the floor. Friend moves it back so the toddler is safe, he moves it back again.

She has a stairgate blocking her kitchen. She has her cleaning products in her under sink cupboard. He comes in, takes them all out and puts them on the windowsill. She comes home, puts them back in the cupboard. He moves them back again. And this is replicated with EVERY cupboard.

He sleeps in her bed when she is not there. She doesn't even feel like she has her own bed anymore!

I can't - I will be breaching my OWN tenancy agreement if I do! I have the maximum people allowed in my property already, and my HA do routine checks and spot checks. Routine checks at least every 4 weeks!

Its a game to him he wants her like his ex, its about hurt and control for him., not about the kids.

Why did she get with someone with that history?

Four weeks should be long enough for housing association to kick him out.

And how long can I put her up for if she has at least a year till she can leave the area when her eldest finishes her GCSE's? She also has to apply for her DD's Secondary school in September. She can't do that with no fixed address.

She really IS stuck, she CAN'T leave the house, I'm fact council have advised her to stay put and put up with it!!

MrsJR - she only found out AFTER they had split up this time, when one of his twins searched her out!! He just told her they had divorced. He's quite a bit older than me and my friend, we are early 30's, he is early 50's. As the twins were grown up, it didn't seem so odd to her that he didn't see much or anything of them, they lived quite a way North from where we are, roughly 300 miles away.

HA would only be able to kick HIM out by ending HER tenancy. Which would, again, make her 'intentionally' homeless.

Get statements from the daughters.