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Original poster

Worried about a friend RE a rape allegation

52 replies

confuseddotcodotuk · 06/05/2011 20:41

I won't go into too much detail obviously but I found out today that a dear friend has had a rape allegation made against him and he's waiting to hear what's going to happen. He's been told to admit to a 'lesser' crime for a smaller sentence but has refused too and will plead not guilty to rape.

What can he be sentenced with and what can the consequences be? I truly and honestly do not believe that he has it in him to do this and I'm really worried about him.

OP posts:

LittleWhiteWolf · 07/05/2011 15:24

If he is convicted of rape or any other "lesser" () sexual offences, he will go to prison for a several years. He will not be eligible for HDC (home detention curfew, i.e. a tag) and he will not be suitable for open conditions. He will likely go to a B Cat prison (perhaps where he is on remand now) and from there will go to a prison which has the specific sexual offence programmes to educate him that its not ok to rape people. He may experience some trouble from the other prisoners due to his crime, but if she is an adult woman (rather than a child say) it may not be so bad.

Thats my experience from working in the prison system for several years in various prisons. Hope it helps.

I have to agree with other posters who point out that a rape case getting to court and a solicitor aiming for a guilty plea for sexual assault or whatever doesn't paint a good picture of your friend. Sorry.

prh47bridge · 07/05/2011 15:56

For crying out loud, read what I say. I have already said that any rapist who gets away with it is one too many.

Speaking as someone who was the victim of a serious sexual assault in his early teens, I can imagine the feelings of a rape victim when told that their assailant will only be charged with a lesser offence. But sometimes the evidence for a rape charge simply isn't there. The standard of proof required is beyond a reasonable doubt.

I have told you that 14% of rape cases end up with a related conviction. I can't currently find the exact figure but it suggests that around 25% of allegations end up in court.

dittany · 07/05/2011 16:17

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

dittany · 07/05/2011 16:20

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LittleWhiteWolf · 07/05/2011 18:04

I meant to imply that sexual assault is every bit as bad as rape and therefore the term lesser sits uneasy with me, although in terms of sentencing it is classed as a "lesser" offence. I didn't mean to imply anything of you.

Does that make sense?

confuddledDOTcom · 07/05/2011 18:26

Not read the whole thread but this is my experience. I was raped about 7 years ago and it didn't go anywhere. They said the CPS has to be 80% sure of a conviction and if the man admits to sex but says it's consenting, there aren't bruises or they knew each other then there is little chance of a conviction because it's his word over hers - I was also told to take MAP as it would affect the chance of the CPS taking it up.

I am a Christian, I'd only ever had sex with my husband who I had been separated from for two months but that didn't mean anything, as he wasn't a stranger in the street, I didn't have bruises (I stopped fighting to protect myself when I knew it was inevitable) and he admitted having sex with me.

I think your friend has little chance of a conviction.

JBellingham · 09/05/2011 19:51

Innocent until PROVEN guilty. A charge is not a conviction. You can play with the statistics all day, number of accusations, number withdrawn, number the CPS won't charge, number convicted.

Being accused does not mean something has happened, being charged does not make someone guilty. Being found guilty makes you guilty.

SybilBeddows · 09/05/2011 20:05

no, having done it makes you guilty.

confuddledDOTcom · 09/05/2011 20:52

So because I never went to court I wasn't raped?

JBellingham · 09/05/2011 22:04

So because he has been accused he is a rapist ?

SybilBeddows · 09/05/2011 22:05

no JBellingham, we don't know if he is a rapist or not and will probably never know.

confuddledDOTcom · 09/05/2011 23:20

He was a rapist because I said no. I don't care what anyone else says, I said no, I told him it wasn't happening and he carried on. Even if it had gone to court and he got off he would still be a rapist, just gotten away with it - which he is anyway!

JBellingham · 09/05/2011 23:23

He sounds like a rapist to me, that is not the point we were discussing, the point is that accusation does not necessarily mean guilt, the original poster was worried about her friend because he had been accused.

dittany · 09/05/2011 23:24

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

dittany · 09/05/2011 23:25

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

confuddledDOTcom · 09/05/2011 23:33

You said being found guilty makes you guilty. This is wrong in two ways. Firstly not everyone who is guilty gets to be found guilty, secondly not everyone found guilty is guilty. There is such a tiny amount of rapists getting to court, let alone being found guilty that I don't believe that there can be many wrongly convicted and I certainly don't believe no one else was guilty. It is for the woman to label her experience not friends of the bloke. No one will ever know other than those two what happened and if he's not willing to be honest then that's not going to happen but who's place is it to tell a woman she wasn't raped?

Your post after mine, pretty much word for word looks like it's turning my question around so to say it's not the point we're discussing sounds like back peddling!

ElephantsAndMiasmas · 09/05/2011 23:56

"So because I never went to court I wasn't raped?"
"So because he has been accused he is a rapist?"

Wow JBellingham, where did you go to get your diploma in normal human decency and social interaction? Responding to a woman talking about being raped in the way you did is just - ugh. Real people are writing on here, some of them have been violently attacked (rape is violence) and are brave enough to talk about it. To imply that one of these women is wrong/lying as you did is totally unnecessary and repulsive. I know you'll come back and point out that you added that "it does sound like rape" but that doesn't sound sincere/make sense when according to you, a rape hasn't even taken place until a court says it has. Presumably before then the victim is in a state of potential upset and trauma, rather than real? In case the case is dropped or the man found not guilty, at which point the victim will have to realise that s/he is just very very mistaken about what happened to them.

Denying the very memories and experiences of rape victims is not ok, in case you're wondering. It contributes to a culture where victims are silenced and rapists get away with it. So thanks for that.

fatherofboys · 21/05/2011 03:39

I would like to place a male perspective here - being a husband and father who has been married for 25 years and now going through a separation - whereby my wife has recently left the marital home and inexplicably made an allegation to the police that I raped her for a period of 10 years until just before the separation.
I have not been the best husband in the world and I understand that there was a huge amount of bitterness in my actions over the course of the marriage, but the allegation of rape is beyond all comprehension - my wife was in control of our sex life and not once in 25 years did I force myself on her.
Is she chronically depressed over my actions and her mother's recent bereavement, does she want to destroy me, would she want to stand up in court and be grilled by the defence team when there is no shred of evidence that the allegation is true?
I am desperate to apologise to her for my actions in the marriage and reassure her that I still have loving feelings for her and will sort her out financially etc.
I would have her back tomorrow if she wanted or am I being delusional?
Or is this a ploy to weaken my position in any divorce settlement?

Celibin · 21/05/2011 09:14

My friend was raped : there were about 50 odd witnesses and she could at least have had a charge of harrassment proven but the police did nothing.Poked about her place and just did nothing.The perpetrator was squeaky clean and all he did was take advantage of an opportunity: he would not have jumped out on the street at someone as too risky etc Most crimes are opportunity . This guy would have done this to somebody eventtually just given the right chance: he thought he was not doing anything wrong:he really did

frantic51 · 21/05/2011 09:53

Elephants

"So because I never went to court I wasn't raped?"
"So because he has been accused he is a rapist?"

'Wow JBellingham, where did you go to get your diploma in normal human decency and social interaction? Responding to a woman talking about being raped in the way you did is just - ugh. '

I didn't read this in the same way as you and think that JB has a point.

Rape is an awfully difficult crime to prosecute as it usually involves just one person's word against another's and I can quite understand why some rapists are not prosecuted. But you can sit with your fingers in your ears on here all you like going, "la la la, not listening, la la la" it won't alter the fact that a small minority of rape allegations are false. People can be nasty, vindictive toads and not possessing a Y chromosome doesn't give automatic immunity from such character flaws, no matter how much you may wish otherwise.

And I have been raped, thank you, before you start

confuddledDOTcom · 21/05/2011 16:09

Well I can tell you, as that's me you're quoting, it was not a false allegation.

frantic51 · 21/05/2011 16:22

Sorry, Confuddled, I wasn't actually quoting you, rather quoting Elephant's remark to JBellingham.

I don't for one moment question that you were raped just because you didn't go to court and I want to make that absolutely clear.

I was simply pointing out that the question, "So because he has been accused, he is a rapist" is just as absurd and not at odds with "common human decency".

Just because one doesn't immediately hang, draw and quarter someone who has been accused of rape does not automatically mean that one doesn't take rape seriously as an abhorrent crime, nor does it follow that one has no compassion for victims of such attacks.

confuddledDOTcom · 21/05/2011 19:24

Well that remark was a quote of mine and Elephants was sticking up for me when the answer to "So because I never went to court I wasn't raped?" was "So because he has been accused he is a rapist?"

Yes, you have a point not everyone accused is guilty, but JBellingham didn't, it was a nasty response to what I said.

frantic51 · 22/05/2011 09:52

I don't think JBellingham's response was "nasty" I think it was slightly irritable because the thread was going slightly off topic?

Your remark that , "I think your friend has little chance of a conviction." Seemed to suggest, to me, at any rate that you had got hold of slightly the wrong end of the stick.

The OP is concerned about a friend who has been accused of rape and yet she finds it hard, given her experience of her relationship with him, to believe. Which is absolutely not to say that her experience of him makes him innocent but, what JB and I are trying to get across is that an allegation doesn't automatically make him guilty.

JB's rather curt/trite reply was to your question in the same vein.

Elephants was trying to "stick up for you" I suppose but she was pretty rude in doing so, much ruder than JB was imo.

I fail to understand why these threads always seem to end up with folk taking "sides".

I empathise with you and your experience, really I do, and it was not my intention to upset you in any way. Please accept my apologies.

Gonzo33 · 26/05/2011 16:16

To the op. Without knowing any of the circumstances I personally believe that no-one could say one way or the other what is going to happen to your friend. In a way I hope you are right and that your friend is not capable of this, but unfortunately there is no smoke without fire.

I was raped 19 years ago this year. I never reported it because I was too young to suffer the trial (in my mind - I was only 15 at the time).

A very good friend of mine was accused of rape a few years ago, however he was found not guilty after a long and arduous trial because he was NOT GUILTY. The woman who accused him had been stalking him, and eventually she was jailed for her false allegations and harrassment and threats to kill. It was a horrendous ordeal for him and his wife, but they got through it.

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