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Legal matters

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Original poster

Can the local authority force DH to house his estranged daughter if her mother dies?

119 replies

birdsfoot · 13/02/2011 11:46

DH has two daughters. One, A level student aged 18, sees us and the other does not. For the last 9 months his younger D (12yo)has had no contact with him (her choice). She has stopped going to school, started hanging out in town at night, smoking weed, drinking etc. Her mother is unable to cope, though she encouraged her D to stop seeing DH, and has become more and more ill with the effects of stress.

We hear from the older D that mother's health is spiralling downhill and she fears she will suffer an early death. When the older sister says to the younger one "Shape up, or mum will die and you'll end up in foster care" the response is "no, I'll just have to stay at dad's. Even though I hate him, it'll be better than being in a home."

What is the legal position on this? Can the local authority make us take the child. DH is not consulted about anything the child does. He pays maintenance, but apart from this has nothing to do with the child as she has said she has "divorced" him.

OP posts:
HerBeX · 14/02/2011 22:58

"There is only so much that people can take before they give up."

Not on their own children though. Usually people give up on their children because they have become suicide bombers or drug barons. Doesn't sound like this 12 year old has done that.

Someone mentioned that this man would be pleased to give his own dd a roof over her head if the LA charged him for her care. I believe that there is a facility for LA's to do that, in cases of abandonment (which presumably this would be)

scaryteacher · 15/02/2011 08:27

Unavailable - because it depends on who is being forced. If the OP and her dh are willing to give it a go and take the lassie and she doesn't want to be there, it would be a case of coercing the child.

It just may be that the OP has to get ducks in a row with needing more bedrooms and perhaps having to move; and wants to plan, thus she asks the question so that if the little girl's mum does die, she can house both the 18 yo and the 12 yo.

Hopefully, the Mum won't die, and relationships can be restored.

Yes, you do give up on people when you've taken enough from them. I did on my Dad from an early age.

flowery · 15/02/2011 10:01

scary - the OP asked whether her DH could be forced to take his daughter. I took from that that they only way they would take her (even if her mum died) is if they were forced to do so. Therefore they wanted to avoid at all costs, and from the information we've been given (no mention of other relatives who could take her for example) it sounds like the alternative would be care.

Cribbage · 15/02/2011 10:26

Bloody hell. Charming pair you are! No, you can't be forced to take her but it might be nice if you wanted to. Hopefully the mum will live a long time but if not let's hope she gets placed with a lovely foster carer.

Resolution · 15/02/2011 10:46

I've followed with interest the various comments posted.

I must admit the original post did raise my eyebrows. However the hysterical response and outright condemnation of most of you who have posted causes me a great deal of concern.

Family problems do not read like a middle class sitcom. The OP has not gone into detail over how SD became estranged from her DP, but clearly there must be a lengthy story there. As many of you will know I am a family law solicitor. In the last 20 years I have come across a number of cases where there is extreme hostility from child towards parent. The reason for this varies, and in the context of the OP is irrelevant.

We don't know the ins and outs of the situation, nor do we have a right to know. I think the original question has been answered. Let's not be too judgmental here please.

Resolution · 15/02/2011 13:02

Must add though that he would still have to pay CSA maintenance.

LittleGsmum · 15/02/2011 15:08

I am new to Mumsnet and this is the first post I have read. I never thought I'd do a post, just here for advice really, but your post really does sicken me beyond belief. You shouldn't be allowed to have children yourself if that's how you think of another. I wonder how you would react if someone talked about your child like that? Maybe your husband will leave you and ignore your child, then you will know. I do not care what the whole situation is, you and your husband are adults, she's a child, step up. I am sure you are one of these step parents that would prefer to eradicate everything your husband did before, but you cannot. Your selfishness is beyond my comprehension.
As for the mail on sunday quip, perhaps you can read a dictionary and look up the word humanity.

scaryteacher · 15/02/2011 15:43

Equally LittleGsmum, and if you haven't read Resolution's post, you might want to look up judging and compassion. How can you be 'sure' of anything when you don't know the lady or the situation in question?

Thanks Resolution, that's what I was trying to say.

LittleGsmum · 15/02/2011 16:08

ScaryTeacher, is that because you agree with child neglect and selfish parents.
You should look up new career options, I do hope you are never a teacher of my child.

Resolution · 15/02/2011 16:13

Can people just put away the flaming torches, stow away the bricks, and cancel the march on birdsfoot's house? The criticism has got a touch out of hand and does people little credit.

adamschic · 15/02/2011 16:17

We don't know the facts but I do know that some fathers just don't want to know children from a previous relationship and some wifes don't want any of the fathers precious time devoted to a child that isn't theirs.

Not saying this is the case here but it happens Sad

Rhadegunde · 15/02/2011 16:25

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Pancakeflipper · 15/02/2011 16:27

Not read all the comments OP. Your initial post sounds uncaring but I know someone who had 3 daughters. She is a good mother. Her middle child is now 13 and since the age of 11 has behaved in a manner that has ripped the family apart.

The girl brought her mother and step-dad down to breaking point and their youngest child has horrific nightterrors because of her sister. The father never bothered with her but the girl announced she'd live with dad rather than go in care. And off she trooped to live with daddy and step-mum.

Step-mum tried. She gave it her all - even the girls mother applauded her. But this kid is on a road to destruction. She creates hell at school, always suspended, smokes weed, gets drunk, nicks money, takes prescribed meds from any relative etc...

Step-mum, Dad, mother and stepdad had to join forces. They started with school. The school helped n finding agencies to help the girl, parents and siblings.
They got referred to SS who have provided support and all gotten various forms of therapy.

It's very up and down.
OP - perhaps you all need to sit down and see what you can all do together and what help is out there.

You are not the only family out there with this type of situation ( why I wrote a long essay).

It's easy to judge because it's not going to be easy for anyone. And yes wouldn't it have been nice if your DP and his daughter had a steady relationship. But they don't. And you cannot go backing history. But there is help for the future for this girl. Do you and DP want to be involved ( it's going to be messy)? You need to discuss with him how to go about this...

It's easy to think she's 12 what havoc can she cause? Quite a lot from what I've seen in my professional and personal life.

I personally hope you can help this girl. She could shock you with a big positive turnaround.

Pancakeflipper · 15/02/2011 16:28

Sorry - loads of spelling errors. On my tiny keyboard and my fingers go everywhere....

Resolution · 15/02/2011 16:31

Good, positive contribution from pancakeflipper. More of the same please.

Rhadegunde · 15/02/2011 16:49

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Pancakeflipper · 15/02/2011 17:03

If I am sadly honest - I would be petrified of a strange 12 yr old whose reputation goes before them moving in. It's going to be a huge adjustment. Complete change and currently none of it looks cheery.

And I'd feel awfully guilty for letting it get this far.

I'd be sorting out what help is there, what's going on with this girl ( warts and all) try to get to know her. She's very probably full of anger towards you and your DP ( and the world) .

I don't think you can avoid it any longer - you and your DP have to take action and help this girl out. If you know what's there in your area then it saves time. You need to speak with her mother and begin building a new relationship. You need to get in contact with the school and its going to be better for all if you grown-ups are working together. You might find with you all working together things improve.... But it will much easier if you adults get onside.

ImFab · 15/02/2011 17:05

Do you have any idea what being in care can do to a child?

Do you care about this child at all?

Legally, I suspect no one can force your loving husband to house his own child but morally...

SecondMrsS · 15/02/2011 17:11

My 12 DSD 'divorces' us every time we deny her a new Jack Wills T shirt and is pretty much a pain in the arse.
My tactic is to cuddle her in to submission and have her round here as much as we can. If her mum was going to die I can only imagine how much more she would need us and how much harder it would be.

But as all you wanted was legal advice, no they can'tr force you to have her.

I'll have her by the way. Gladly! Breaks my heart.

Pancakeflipper · 15/02/2011 17:15

From what I have seen in past experience SS would try to work with family members to avoid the child going into care. Foster care may be used as a temp measure but they would try to avoid it.

They would look at reasons why it may not be suitable for a child to not live with particular family members. But they'd be big reasons. Not cos it's inconvenient.

They will work with you but you'd need to be honest and say what help you want and why....

scaryteacher · 15/02/2011 20:43

'ScaryTeacher, is that because you agree with child neglect and selfish parents.
You should look up new career options, I do hope you are never a teacher of my child.'

No, I agree with neither, but having taught, and having been a mum and an adult for a long time, I am aware that there are two sides to every story and that the world isn't black and white, but varying shades of grey.

Thanks for the career advice; I won't be taking it.

Original poster
birdsfoot · 15/02/2011 22:38

Scaryteacher, Resolution and Pancakeflipper,
thank you so much for your support and advice.

I am astounded at the response here on mumsnet. Sickened actually. And what sickens me - your posts - is alot more detailed and concrete than what I originally posted. I did not think a Mumsnet-phrased life history was required. I asked a simple question.

OP posts:
Rhadegunde · 15/02/2011 23:02

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
birdsfoot · 15/02/2011 23:16

"Preventing"? Can you please read my post again... I asked whether the LA can (legally) insist on her living with us.

OP posts:
Resolution · 15/02/2011 23:18

Er.... no. This part of it is a legal forum.

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