Father not paying maintenance, can courts force contact?

[SK1ER]

Hi,

My teenage son's father has never paid a regular and reasonable amount of chicld support.

We have never been married and I ended the relationship when our son was a toddler.

Last year my son's father said he was out of work and paid just £5 per month! I later found out from the CSA he had been in work.

Am I right to say he can't have contact because he's refused to pay?

I know my son has a right, and wants, to see his father but it worries me that he will learn this negative behaviour.

There is fine line developmentally at my son's age, between understanding something is wrong, and my son understands his dad's behaviour is wrong, but still learning by example.

'Cash for contact' seems a cruel term but if the roles were reversed and he was the parents with care and I asked for access while refusing to pay a reasonable amount I would expect him to tell me where to go.

Morally am I wrong?

And legally am I wrong?

Since being forced to pay by the CSA he's decided to apply to court for contact and parental responsibilities.

We're both funded by Legal Aid so I'm worried he has too much leeway.

his solicitor is a member of Resolution yet no offer of mediation has been made.

Court should be a final option not a first step shouldn't it?

It'd be pretty hard to stop a teenager seeing his father though wouldn't it?

Morally & legally you are wrong.

I must be a fully paid up member of the "kids are not pay per view" brigade.

Oh and for the record, I say that as a resident parent and my ex pays me practically nothing too.

Don't make your son pay for your own bitterness.

My Ex has our son every 3rd weekend and every 5th weekend, our son doesn't really like going, but does, he has to, as it has been court ordered. He seems to have an ok time when he is there. My Ex pays no maintenance and the court cannot enforce it. I've got to go through CSA, but Ex keeps dodging it somehow, very annoying.

Personally I think that makes him an arse and I do think it's wrong that he gets away with not supporting his son, even though he has a full time job that pays rather well. He's very much a Disney dad and splashes the cash on our son when he sees him, buying him computer games and toys etc etc. But when it comes down to paying for clothes, school trips, school uniform, shoes, food, all the practical and necessary things he is not willing to.

I can understand your frustration that your Ex is not supporting his son in anyway, but if your son wants to see his dad then you shouldn't stop him, especially as he is a teenager, he's old enough to know that his dad is out of order not supporting financially, but to him he's his dad and he loves him and wants to spend time with him, that's all it's really about to him.

part of being approved for legal aid involves agreeing to mediation to avoid court if possible. So ensur you get writtem confirmation he is not willing to go for mediation. His sol will tell him this though and he will go for mediation as a result.

Also court will expect mediation to be tried and again will want to see this. Of he refuses then that will go against him.
If he attends mediation and is clearly not trying to resolve things (but simply going to get his legal aid paid) then ensure that you get this in writing from the mediator.

As to your points about can he expect contact if he's not paid maintenance - yes he can. Paying and contact are not contected. Although it does rather point to him trying to reduce his payment by insisting on contact now. Maybe mention that but don't keep on about it as your reason not to allow...

If your ds wants to see his dad and is a teenager (you don't say what age) then the court will look at his wishes and feelings and take that into account. You should be looking at ways to help him with this process and be agreeing to some contact. Otherwise you will look in court to be unresonable (your ds is wanting the contact and you're syaing your ex can't have it as he hasn't paid is unreasonable to the court i'm afraid)

You have to put your ds first here and look at what he wants and needs. Your ds has a right to contact with both his parents should he want it, The court will help him achieve that if he wants it. You and your ex have no rights, only responsibilities to your child (regardless of if he has met them or not your ds's right to see his father will take precedent)

you have NO right to stop your son seeng his father, unless you think he is being abused or neglected whilst in his care.

He's a complete wad not to pay for his child, but his child still has the right to know him, and the rights of the child supercede everyone else's

but this isn't about what tyhe father wants at all. It's about the child, and the child wants to see his father. SO he SHOULD see his father for as long as his father is available.

If, as a teenager, the child had said that he didn't want to see his father, I would say don't bother pushing it ... but this isn't about money, or the split, or how much of a dickhead Dad is - it's about the child's right to a relationship with both parents, even if they dislike one another.

Can someone remind me to whom I send the cheque to make sure I'm a fully paid-up member of the "Kids aren't pay-per-view" club? I don't want my membership to lapse.

Your child wants to see his father. His father wants to see his son (even though I agree that's probably for cynical reasons). As long as there isn't a child safety issue, you have no legal or moral right to refuse based on how much maintenance has or has not been paid.

Yes, your ex sounds like a proper twat. But in the long run it's better for your DS to learn that his father is a twat for himself. It will be a painful lesson (been there, done that) but an important one. As I'm sure you've done a good job raising your son with a sound sense of right and wrong it's more likely that your son will see his father's twattishness and resolve to not be like his dad (again, BTDT). But that can only happen if your son has contact with his dad.

If you deny contact based purely on financial reasons then you risk damaging your relationship with your son as, in your son's eyes, it will look like money is more important to you than his happiness.

I know maintenance is important - my ex is crap at paying maintenance and it drives me up the wall - but denying contact is a big thing and if it has to be done it's got to be done for good reasons.

Going to court should indeed be the final option. However, mediation is only going to work if both parties are willing to negotiate a mutually satisfactory solution.

As others have said, the law is clear. Contact and maintenance are separate issues. If your ex goes to court for a contact order the court will not be interested in whether or not he is paying maintenance. I'm afraid there is nothing in your post that suggests a reason for the courts to refuse contact. It is also highly likely that he will get parental responsibility.

Morally, as you have said yourself, your son has a right to a relationship with his father. I do not see how a dispute between the parents over money takes away your son's rights. Refusing contact due to lack of maintenance is, in my view, treating your son as a possession to be used as a bargaining chip.

I suggest you agree to contact and a parental responsibility agreement. Since the courts will give him both of these anyway you aren't losing anything by doing so. You can then go to mediation to work out the details.

Maintenance is the CSA's problem. I know they are inefficient but that's the way it is. If there are arrears you need to chase the CSA. If you think the assessment is too low you need to object to the CSA.

Courts thankfully keep access and maintainance seperate as it should be. Children should never be used as pawns and certainly not pawns for financial reasons. If your son has a relationship with his father and wants contact, surely it would never enter a mothers head to stop that unless there was a physical danger to the child.

As for "If you don't financially support your child, you are a shit father" - lots of PWC dont financially support their child/children either and let tax payers do it so does the same apply? Both parents, whether together or not, should financially support any child they chose to have, its part of being a good parent.

Thank you all for your replies :)

To clarify a few points,

I don't agree with any parent without care being allowed feee access to a child they don't care enough about to contribute to financially,

But, I wouldn't use this alone as a reason to withdraw contact.

I primarily stopped contact last year between my son and his dad because his dad refused to make his house safe, I've asked him for a long time to do this but as it's me asking he won't do it. I'm hoping Cafcas, when they do their home visit to him, will ask him too.

I'm not using my son as a bargaining chip.

My son's father knows I'm open to mediation, so does his solicitor since last week yet no suggestion from them has been forthcoming.

My son's dad had all last summer to take action yet he didn't, a solicitors letter would have been no great expense whether he was working or not and could well have been the first step to mediation yet he did nothing.

His statement made to his solicitor is signed less than 2 weeks after the CSA contacted him and told him they would be taking money from him whether he liked it or not.

This isn't about contact for him, it's more a 'tit-for-tat' or 'if I have to pay for him I WILL see him!'.

It's that attitude that is worrying as he doesn't have his son's best interests at heart.

I'm not contesting his contact request, as long as it's in a contact centre until his house is safe.

I am contesting him having parental rights as I think he will use them/ abuse to be awkward just because of his anger towards me, as he has done with legal aid this time.

He applied 11 years ago and the court did not let him have them, he's told his solicitr he DOESN'T know of a previous court case re this.

Legal question: Will him having been refused them before go against him? His behaviour has got worse if anything, not better, and I think it shows a questionable reason for his application given that he's only know reapplying, our son is nearly 15 so he's had 13 years to reapply or appeal.

Thank you again for your replies, it's my first post on here and I love the honesty, whether I like what's being said or not :)

Have to agree with the majority of posters here. I don't think I could look a child in the eye and tell them that for my own financial reasons I'm going to dent them a relationship with one of their parents.

How is his house not safe? If it is genuinely not safe, couldn't he have contact away from there?

If your 14 year old son wants to see his dad, he's going to see him. trying to get in the way may serve to make dad seem more interesting, and you may find he starts to feel sympathy for him.

Children should never be made privy to what goes on between warring parents. Be careful, or he might take sides against you.

In law, to get PR you need to have shown a commitment to the child. I know you say he hasn't because of the maintenance issue, but if he's sustained contact over most of the time then I think he'll get PR.

Comfort yourself with the comments of one judge - I think Wall LJ. PR of a young child gives a parent the right to make decisions. PR of a teenager merely gives you the right to give them your opinion (I'm sure he phrased it better, but you get my drift).

Resolution:
Lol at your quote from the judge :)

I probably wasn't clear, it can be difficult to try to be concise and stick just to details when feelings are running high :)

I don't believe a parent should see a child they're not commited to supporting but I wouldn't use that as a reason for stopping contact as I know the law wouldn't back me up and yes there is a risk the child may be seen as a commodity.

His father's house has loose wiring coming into the kitchen underneath the bathroom.

The front window pane is rotted through and the large glass panel is dangerously cracked.

It would take only a small amount of pressure for the whole thing to implode.

There's no point me telling my son to steer clear of the window as it has to be passed to get into the livingroom fully and he's a teenager who is a different distance from objects than he was a week ago due to growing, I guess this is why teenagers are clumsy?

The house would be dangerous for an adult. His dad lives up in the back bedroom due to the problems downstairs!

I don't believe his dad has shown commitment, he's had sporadic contact, withdrawing it when I 'give him hassle' i.e ask for a little more than £5 per month maintenace, ask him not to insult his son's family within earshot of his son, for him not to put his son is a position where he has to lie to me, his mum, all totally unreasonable requests according to him.

He has made no contact with my son for 5 months and then texts him Christmas Eve to say he's ill in bed at his girlfriends, (TMI) and will be back in a few days. Doesn't make any more contact then 2 weeks after christmas leaves my son's Christmas presents in a bin liner at the side of our house on a rainy day, despite there being a large notice on our front door giving a safe (and dry!) place for any deliveries to be made.

His, my son's dad,'s behaviour is not much different from a 6 year old who has done something worng, is spoken to about it but instead of accepting responsibility for their own behaviour chooses to believe they are being victimised and cries to anyone who will listen, even my son can see this.

My son's dad went into a solicitor only days after hearing from the CSA that they would definately be starting to take money from him.

So now he's forced to pay for his son he seems to have decided he's being 'got at' and so to drag his son and me through the courts.

His solicitor is a member of Resolution yet offered no mediation, the first I heard of anything was papers regarding a first hearing at court.

Mediation is more likely to have a satisfactory outcome for his dad but it seems he wants me forced into a situation like's he's been with the CSA.

How would the courts view his behaviour with regard to whether he would use parental rights for a positive use rather than abuse them to further cause trouble? which is what we suspect.

Hi Skier

I think you need to get something clear. If he goes to court, he will get PR. CAFCASS will ask your son what he wants to do and at his age, the court will pretty much rubber stamp that. .

Whether or not you think its a good idea, or if the ex should be contributing more is rather irrelevant. The court may also hate the fact he's been inconsistent and refused mediation but the principle they must uphold is what is in the best interests of the child

Also at 15 I think you will find it hard argue ex should not have contact due to his house being "dangerous". Your son is practically an adult and am sure he can work out for himself not to mess with a cracked window or poke loose wiring. Those things are also minor in the greater scheme of things. All ex needs to do is say "yeah i'll fix them" and your arguments are scuppered.

OK, I get he's made little effort but again if this went to court, he'll simply play it as "I want to see DS now and he wants to see me". What then? Court say "no mate, you should have done it x years ago. Too late?" They simply won't do that. As long as your son is happy to see him, they'll let him.

Your best course of action is not to fight him on this. The more you do, the more unreasonable you will look to your son and in turn the courts. One day your son will grow up and realise who it was who was there everyday. Who scrimped and saved for him, wiped his brow when he was ill and brought him up and who swans in & out of his life like a fair weather parent.

Lastly, I'm sorry if it sounds like I'm being blunt/borderline rude. But I've been to court, had first hand experience of it and trust me this is nothing compared to the shoeing you'll get there.

Hi Niceguy2 :)

Our concern, that is mine, my sons and my mum, we all live in the same house as a family unit, is that his dad will abuse the parental rights.

He has always had all the same benefits as PR would give him, access to e's education, a say in schools etc, the only thing Pr would give him is a legally approved whipping stick against me should he decide, as he almost always done in the past, that a reasonable request is an attack on him.

None of us, me, mum and my son, want a life ahead for my son of his father applying for Prohibited steps orders, Specific issue orders etc. Whether a court would approve them is the lesser concern, the biggest concern is the stress this would put my son under.

My son has, diagnosed by a medical practioner, low blood pressure, this causes his problems with balance and some spacial awareness issues so it isn't as simple as saying 'avoid the window' or 'avoid the wires'.

I sppreciate your comments very much and wonder do you have any response to the further information I've just given? :)

It is not unreasonable to ask he make a safe environment for his son.
It is not unreasonable to request more than £5 per month.
It is not unreasonable to ask that he do more with his son than have him in his, his dad's, back bedroom because he would rather spend his money on parties, girlfriend's, computer componants etc than pay for an adequate heating system to be fitted.

On a legal note, he has lied on his application to court, in his statement he says he knows of no other court case regarding his son yet he made the same application in 1998 and the court did not give him PR as he had not shown anymore responsibility then than he does now. The court also decided the issue of contact should be down to me as well.

I understand my son is now old enough for his wishes to be taken into consideration, and quite rightly so, they should be paramount! this si about what's best for him

but...

my son does not want his dad to have PR either!

Where, legally, does my son stand on this? I know he has a say re contact but does he legally have one re whether his dad gets PR or not?

Can anybody advise a website where it will list a child's rights re parental responsibilities?

Parental resposibility here...
www.childrenslegalcentre.com/Resources/CLC/Documents/PDF%20N-Z/Parental%20Responsibility%20leaflet.pdf

child right's (some at least with links to more) here
www.direct.gov.uk/en/Parents/ParentsRights/DG_4003313

Thank you Gillybean2 :)

op said 15....by the time its been to court he'll be 16 and nothing is enforcable!

also,he can vote with his feet

I agree.