Father not paying maintenance, can courts force contact?

[SK1ER]

Hi,

My teenage son's father has never paid a regular and reasonable amount of chicld support.

We have never been married and I ended the relationship when our son was a toddler.

Last year my son's father said he was out of work and paid just £5 per month! I later found out from the CSA he had been in work.

Am I right to say he can't have contact because he's refused to pay?

I know my son has a right, and wants, to see his father but it worries me that he will learn this negative behaviour.

There is fine line developmentally at my son's age, between understanding something is wrong, and my son understands his dad's behaviour is wrong, but still learning by example.

'Cash for contact' seems a cruel term but if the roles were reversed and he was the parents with care and I asked for access while refusing to pay a reasonable amount I would expect him to tell me where to go.

Morally am I wrong?

And legally am I wrong?

Since being forced to pay by the CSA he's decided to apply to court for contact and parental responsibilities.

We're both funded by Legal Aid so I'm worried he has too much leeway.

his solicitor is a member of Resolution yet no offer of mediation has been made.

Court should be a final option not a first step shouldn't it?

Thank you everybody, for your time and effort :)
Even when views can be opposing they're a great help as it's always a big help to be able to see as many angles to a problem as it can show more potential solutions :)

I spoke with the childrens legal service today, kindly provided by one of the repliers on here and they said the same as most of you have just said, that a contact order takes a considerable length of time and he would be almost 15 and a half by the time it would be finalised so it's not worth it cost wise.

Cafcass are hopefully going to resolve the unsafe house issue so with any luck DS's dad will listen to them and DS can have contact again with his dad which will make him very happy :)

BabyBarrister:

DS is 15 in April, hopefully this will bring him in line with being old enough for the court to listen to his wishes and not his father's?

A CAFCASS report has been ordered and they have written to me regarding a telephone interview. There have been previous concerns re his dad and one case of him absconding with DS so the police were involved, one of the resons the court refused him PR when he last applied. Will this be the reson CAFCASS are involved now or is standard? as I realise, or hope! things have changed since the 90's :)

Cafcass involvement is fairly standard and being 15 will mean that your son is listened to. And he wants to see his Dad. At this point in your son's life it is hard to see what possible relevance PR might have, or how your ex could possibly 'abuse' it - particularly given that he could apply for all the orders you mention without it.

Balia:

I didn't know he could apply for those without PR :) That changes things entirely :) Would you be so kind as to point me to any links where I could read further about that?

I think that's probably the best news I've read all day :) :) :)

It saves a horrible battle through the courts and my son would have peace of mind!

Do you think there is a possibility you may be being a bit over protective towards your son?

In a few years he's going to be an adult and can go anywhere in the world he wants with whoever he wants and pretty much do what he wants. I can't see any point in any courts etc being involved.

Truckulente:

I like your username by the way :)

Yes, you could be right, perhaps, like most mums who's children are starting to grow up it takes time to let go of the reins :)

If Balia's advice is accurate I will be very happy as it mean there would be no point in contesting the PR although given his history in court a judge may well not award it anyway but it saves me the fight.

People have helped me a lot on here, from a legal point of view, and otherwise. I'm not very good at expressing myself, I aim to say black and for some reason it comes out white and so there have been a few who thought I wasn't listening but I've taken in everything everybody's said and it's given me a lot to think about.

I can't, with all concience, allow my son into his dad's house the way it is, it really is a dangerous place and SS have advised against it too but we'll see how CAFCASS get on with pursuading him :)

One of the things said a lot is about my son's age, and how much the court will pay attention to his wishes so I'm a lot more confident that the court won't force him into situations he doesn't want to be in.

I'd been scared by a report I read online on another forum where the father applied for contact, the judge made an order (not with consent) and the mother, even though the girl had expressed a wish not to see her father was made to make her daughter go in case she, mum, was penalised by the courts.

Do you know if the above scenario is a rarity? the girl was a few years younger than my son

Ooops, I worded it wrong, when I said 'CAFCASS get on with pursuading him' I meant pursuading his dad to make it safe, not pursuading my son to visit anyway :)

I wouldn't bank on CAFCASS saying the same thing today that they said in 1998. Not least because your son must've been a toddler then - and so concerns about the safety of the house would be paramount - whereas now he's a teenager and may be expected to have a bit more awareness of his surroundings than a 3yo would.

There are cases where younger children have said they do not wish contact with the non-res parent yet the court orders that such contact should go ahead. Age of the child plays an important part in such decisions. Up until around 11 or 12 (there's no set age; it depends on the child) then the child's views are listened to but not necessarily given full weight. The reasons given by the child can also play a part as, very occasionally, the parent-with-care can coach the child to refuse contact or will demonise the non-res parent in the eyes of the child. History of the case can also affect such decisions.

In general, though, courts do tend to order contact unless there is a compelling reason not to.

In your case, let's imagine that CAFCASS reports that as your son is old enough to decide for himself, and your son wants to see his dad, they think contact should go ahead regardless of the state of his dad's house. What will you do then?

if your 15 year old is of normal intelligence then i cant see any of the issues re: safety being an issue .

and as to what they do together - again - not an issue. what do teens do anyway? hang out over a computer?

PR is not relevant to contact. myexP does not have PR but has been granted contact.

Snorbs:

thank you for your advice :)

It's a great comfort to know DS will be listened to by the court :) He wants access and I want him to have access.

I don't think Cafcass would look at his house and not make comments, it really is in a very poor state and even DS's dad has to live in a back bedroom due to the general neglect of the house, we have discussed the very same probelm you've raised though but have come up with nothing, do you have any ideas? :)

Cestlavielife:

I appreciate what you're saying but DS has a problem with losing his bearings if he moves too quickly or stands suddenly so a window that's about ready to implode and is unavoidable in such a small room is an issue.

I wish it wasn't, I wish DS's dad would just get his house sorted, it's not like he's been asked to put down Persian rugs and gold chandeliers lol :)

Social Services recommend I have a solicitor apply to the court so DS's dad is forced in some way to make the relevant repairs, SS have said that until he's done that I'm not to let my son have access at his dad's house.

We just want it sorted asap and so DS can have contact again as he did until last summer :)

have SS been to visit dad at his house and explained to him what is needed?

babybarrister: He's 14 until April, somebody said it takes 6 months to complete an order for contact, is the same in all cases?

I really want my son to be able to see his dad and a lot sooner than that but he can't at his dad's house due to the conditions, I don't want to go against social services saying he shouldn't go there until it's put right and DS's dad won't do it (because I asked) so:

Can the court make him make his house safe?

I've found a contact centre who will take someone DS's age but A: I don't really want that situation for DS, it's much more natural and relaxed to visit his dad in his dad's home (when it's habitable :) and B: it has a 12 to 14 week waiting list.

Are there other options I'm not aware of? DS's dad says he can't afford to take him anywhere else although he seems to have the funds to travel long distance at least once a week to his girlfriend's and to parties (?!).

Thank you for responding and for your advice

cestlavielife: SS have not explained to him, it's related to a contact issue and they say contact issues are a matter for the court.

If DS's dad continues to refuse mediation and it goes to the first hearing next week and still won't agree to the contact offered (3 days a week) the judge will instruct CAFCASS to address both parents issues don't they?

I was contacted by CAFCASS a few days ago and I did voice my concerns but they say they won't be involved unless instructed to do so by the court at the first hearing.

DS's dad has asked for contact with no set days or hours but we don't think that's a good idea as DS has an active life out of school and some after school educational activites and we feel it would be in the best interests of DS to have a regular 'timetable' so to speak with his dad, so he can make arrangements with his friends around contact :)

Thank you for taking the time to respond :)

DS wants set days and times, his dad doesn't, who is the judge likely to listen to?

Your son of course. Cafcass may be asked to do a short wishes and feelings report.

Resolution:

Thank you :)

Do you know if the court and/ or CAFCASS can make DS make his house safe?

Oops, DS should read 'DS's dad' :)

They can't, though they can make plain if they think it's too dangerous for contact. I'd agree with previous posters view though on your sons age meaning this may not be a make or break thing. It's not like he keeps a pet crocodile.

Resolution: Hi again :)

I can see people's points of view on this and yes, I agree with you it may not be a make or break thing, I have to say though when I read your reply my first instinct was "I wouldn't be as worrried if DS's dad did have a pet croc lol, that should give you some idea how much concern there is over his house! :) The local kids have nicknamed him "The Rat Man" and in my nearly 40 years of being in this neighbourhood nobody ever got a nickname like that!

I'm still unsure about this open contact DS's dad's asking for, how can a court enforce that? Say they give DS's dad what he's asked for yeah? and he then asks to see DS on say on a Saturday but I've made plans to go see a movie with DS on that day, can DS's dad object to that and go back to the court?

How does an open contact order without consent work?

I'm scared after seeing cases where children have to go see their dad's even when they don't want to otherwise the mother can be penalised in court.

thank you, again :) for your time :)

I suspect given his age he just wants to arrange contact through your son, who probably has his own life to lead and wouldn't want to be tied to a set timetable.

SK1ER: I'm sorry, but from the things you say and the manner in which you say them it sounds to me like you've got your own axes to grind in all of this. I don't doubt that your ex partner has been and is being bloodyminded and has some mistaken priorities. I may be wrong, but I fear you've been on the other side of this more than you realise.