Massive Parent Issues HELP!

[onlyhereonce]

Hi,

Where do i start? I'll just try and give you an idea of the situation and then let you know the problem. I am married to X (name held for privacy reasons) (been together 7.5yrs), and have 3 lovely children who we both adore (5,3 and 1). We are fine with his parents and his side of the family, my nan and grandad and brother and have a good relationship with them, as do the kids. All my auntys and uncles have washed their hands of me due to being fed a load or rubbish by my parents.The problem is my parents.

We have had 4 years of hell with them ever since Child 1 was born. (first 2 years were manageable). The problem is that they are very controlling, judgemental, ignorant to our wishes, and seem to love making life hard if we dont adhere to their every whim.

Because we are very hands on parents, dont palm them off all the time, dont go out alot as we prefer to be at home with the kids, they resent this as they crave having the kids all the time.

Theres been so much hassle it would take me hours to write but it includes my dad threatening X over the phone twice, whispering things in the kids ears, trying to brainwash my kids into thinking my side of the family are only the important side, constantly undermining and shouting over us when we are trying to guide our children. My mum works in the education system and since doing that has totally changed. She now thinks she knows the lot, seems to think she knows everybody and has more rights than anybody else, including us as parents. It took a bad turn 3 xmas's ago when they purposely withheld the kids xmas presents as we were living with X parents at the time due to our house being renovated. They were only prepared to let the kids open them a their house, which totally went against the whole santa thing. When we let them know how unhappy we were it took a bad turn from then on. We have been blackened to people. slagged off, been called "fu**g crap parents" in front of the children etc etc

We had to get married abroad instead of here due to the hassle they would have caused. We have had my sister turning up at my son's school playground calling me all the names under the sun, crouching down to my eldest and saying "aunty && loves you, this is your mum and dad stopping me seeing you".

Recently we have got a harassment order on them and my sister as they will not leave us alone. We have made our wishes in writing that we no longer want any contact of any sort as it is damaging the children. They have come down at 6:30pm, knowing full well the kids are still up and caused holy hell, hurling abuse, shouting, accusing of all sorts in front of the children, passed things to me through other people, text numerous times with abusive texts and left abusive voicemails so we have called the police 3 times now.

The last time the police officer spoke to my dad she said how difficult it is to speak to him (well we know that anyway) and he was seeking legal advice to get access to see the kids).

My parents have started telling everybody that X is conrtolling me and very manipulative, which is total nonsense. Even my grandparents who we are on good terms with know that not to be true and is probably why they have not got involved and have a good relationship with X.

We are in turmoil to the thought of them going to court and geting access as this will damage my children and their future, not including ruining our quality of life. My eldest has been very touchy and loving (especially with his dad and telling him he loves him like 50 times a day) and i feel this is due to him hearing rubbish like "your f***g crap parents" as he came up to me only a few days ago and said " mum i dont think your rubbish parents".

I could cry, im at the end of my patience and dont know what to do. We are seriously thinking of moving away if they do get an access order as i know this will cause massive upset for us and especially the kids.

Anybody out there who has experienced this or can help?

Thanks

Amy

Your parents will have to start by applying to the courts for permission to apply for a contact order. To succeed they would need to show that, prior to you stopping contact, they had a meaningful relationship with your children which significantly benefitted their lives. The court should consider whether continuing contact with the child will damage your family.

Based on what you have posted here I think you would have a reasonable chance of blocking any application by your parents.

Hi,

Before us saying no more contact they saw them once a fortnight (combination of us always doing things , days out etc and us not wanting to palm our kids off to grandparents or anybody else for that matter). This was seen by them as us pushing them out ,when in fact it was just us wanting to bring our own children up. Is that so wrong?

When they came down the last time and refused to leave for 3hrs until X threatened to call the police , our eldest came to the top of the stairs as my mum pushed through the door and she said "hello mate , nanna loves you2. he replied "no , im not talking to you as your naughty2. She went into the front room where my sister and nan were and said "see , hes just said"im not allowed to talk to you as ive been told your naughty".
Do you see what we are having to deal with?

Amy

"hello mate , nanna loves you2. he replied "no , im not talking to you as your naughty2 should actually be "hello mate , nanna loves you". he replied "no , im not talking to you as your naughty"

Why do you let them in the house at all? I wouldn't have anything to do with them, and would call the Police if they continued to harass.

well we have just called the police again as they dropped presents off at X parents house which is wrong as we said no more presents and its involving people that dont want the hassle. Police have said they cant arrest them as its not harassing as in threatening but we can go to a solicitor and get an injunction. SO basically the police dont want to know.

Well we are going to call a solicitor tomorrow morning and go from there as this is just going to carry on and carry on.

I'm afraid they are likely to be granted leave to apply for contact. The good news is that this is not a qualitative assessment of their chances of getting any.

I don't fancy their chances much.

what do you mean leave to apply for contact?

leave = permission. Granparents don't have an automatic right to apply for section 8 orders (contact, residence, specific issue and prohibited steps).

What that means is that grandparents have to apply for permission to apply for contact.

A parent applying for contact doesn't need permission to apply for an order. They just go straight to court and ask for a contact order.

Grandparents, on the other hand, have to first ask the court for permission to ask for a contact order. When they have that permission they can then go back to court and actually try to get a contact order. So whereas parents only need one visit to court to get a contact order, grandparents have to go twice.

As Resolution says (and I apologise for my first post being insufficiently clear on this point) they will probably get permission to apply for a contact order but, based on what you have posted here, it is unlikely they will get a contact order.

Hi,

i really hope they dont as this will ruin our family. My eldest is so touchy at the moment as he knows what is going on by hearing the crap that they have been shouting out. If they did get a contact order, we wouldnt have restrictions on where we could live would we? eg: we couldnt move abroad as they have contact rights? as if they do get access we will just move away for the sake of our kids.

Amy

don't do anything so drastic. I can't see them getting contact unless one of the children really wants to see them, in which case I suspect it would be supervised.

Your parents would be able to apply for a Prohibited Steps Order to prevent you from moving. If you were moving purely to stop contact there is a good chance they would succeed.

However, I wouldn't worry about this. As both Resolution and myself have told you, it is unlikely your parents will get a contact order.

I disagree that they'd get a PSO to prevent you moving, whatever your reasons. It's a human rights issue. They are very rarely used in disputes between parents. I suspect that they would never be used in a case like yours where the grandparents have never lived with the child. Have to disagree with prh for once.

I disagree that they'd get a PSO to prevent you moving, whatever your reasons. It's a human rights issue. They are very rarely used in disputes between parents. I suspect that they would never be used in a case like yours where the grandparents have never lived with the child. Have to disagree with prh for once.

well we have an appointment with a solicitor on tuesday to get an injunction. How long do they normally take to issue one and is it definite we will get one on them?

Depends what you want the court to order. I thought you had an injunction? They normally should be heard within 2-3 weeks. I assume your case isn't urgent. But don't you want to keep them away from the courts? This might encourage them to apply for contact? If they are harassing you, see if the police might issue a warning under the Protection from Harassment Act.

We have got a harassment order on them but it does no use. They still try to sneak things to kids and me (they think that im being bullied by my husband and only say no to contact because of him , which is absolute garbage). I called the police last week and they came out to speak with me. They said they cant do anything further. I know it might seem petty little things but when we have had 5 years of it and lots more grief that i have written down here its just come to the point where its really starting to screw our kids up listening to all the arguments and comments.

They will apply for contact , thats a certainty as my mum thinks she is a cut above and sees this as a competition (one she wants to win) , its really pathetic.

Amy

A properly worded non-molestation order should criminalise otherwise lawful behaviour - eg communicating with someone when that communication is unwelcome. Breach of a non-mol order is a criminal offence.

Agree with Resolution, including agreeing with her disagreement with me! I meant to put "small chance they will succeed" on the grounds that, whilst parents have been prevented from moving when it has been clear that the move is purely to frustrate contact, that is rare and I do not know of any instances of grandparents succeeding with such an action. No idea how that turned into a "good chance".

Must keep taking the pills...

Their behaviour seems very over the top for a dispute about how much time grandparents spend with their grandchildren.

Surely they understand that behaving like this to you lessens their chances of you wanting them to spend time together.

Their behaviour is totally unjustifiable but some of your isn't entirely reasonable either.
eg- not allowing your DCs to be given Xmas presents at the grandparents house. Surely you should be grateful they give presents at all- some grandparents dont. Also I only consider presents from parents as 'from Santa', I've never heard of all the presents being presented as such.
-your comments about 'palming off children' are a bit offensive to other parents. I dont see time that my DCs spend with their DGPs as 'palming them off' but as a normal part of family life. Your attitude to them implies distrust which could well have got their backs up.

Why do they think your DP is a 'controlling, manipulative bully'? If they have cause to believe this then maybe you should listen to their concerns.

I dont think they will have any chance of legally forcing contact btw, so I wouldnt worry about that.

In response to darleneconnor..

I call it palming off and dont see it as offensive to others at all. My husbands sister does plenty of "palming off" and shes the first to admit it. If my sister in law and my mum in law are happy with that arrangement then fine, its the right thing for them. Its not for me.

Also with all respect the kicking off about them withholding presents may seem trivial to you but its not to me. They purposely did that as to stick 2 fingers up.

The following xmas we asked for 1 present each for the kids as we have big families both sides and we cant fit the presents in our front room! They turned up a few days before xmas with wait for it.... 22 presents , 11 each for the kids , with a smirk on their face. We refused 20 of them and we got slagged off to the rest of the family. Why could they not have just listened to our valid requests?

Also on my husband being a controlling bully , well thats just a line they use when people ask them why they arent seeing their grandkids. They arent going to own up about all the emotional abuse they have tried with my kids , its easier to say its him. Im not stupid and know the ways of the world and i can tell you with certainty if he was the bully they are depicting him as i would have never got married. Hes a wonderful husband and even more a wonderful father. He certainly doesnt deserve the lies that they have spread about him. The silly thing is , my nan and grandad get on so well with him as they know hes not like that.

Im going to talk to the solicitor about the non molestation order instead.

Thanks

Amy

Sounds like this has become a nightmare, a real battle of wills and very stressful.

Although I sympathise hugely, more legal action is going to be more stressful.

Is there any chance of you having a series of mediated meetings with your parents to try to see things from both points of view and sort something out amicably? It might be less stressful in the long run and allow you and your children to reclaim a relationship.

If that didn't work out, then the legal process would be the way to go, knowing you'd exhausted everything else.

I suggest this because it does sound as though there are some areas that I could see would wind them up being the sort of people they are - e.g. you and your dh demanding only 1 present per child and them taking it as a challenge and bringing 11. You could've saved a lot of problems by not saying that, then quietly giving away or selling the stuff on eBay afterwards.

It sounds like they have major emotional issues which might be helped by talking through with a third party present. I speak with some experience - my late mother was a toxic parent but she herself had had a dreadful childhood with major issues she never resolved.

This put a strain on us when our dc were born, as she, for example, would over-compensate with way too generous presents, which were always in some way conditional.

Good luck, it may well be past the stage where mediation would help, but thought it worth suggesting.

Hi,

The thing is , why should we have to accept 11 and give them away? Why can they not just listen to our wishes and support us?? If i was asked not to park on double yellow lines and i did i would get fined. Why do they think that they can just undermine what our wishes are???

Also, we have tried and tried to sort this out , by us going down there all the time only to be shouted over by my dad and for my mum to try and be clever. Mediation would not work as they cant see they have done ANYTHING wrong in all of this.

We have made our minds up , for the long term benefit of our children we are willing to go to court if the need arises and tell them just why we feel ANY contact would be emotionally crippling for my kids. If they ever did get any contact whatsoever we would just move away and put a gap between us permanently.

I cant tell you how much i regret not doing this sooner as the past 5 years have just been hell.

Amy