Mumsnet is getting worse

[LondonMummer]

Seriously. Is it the same few people just name changing or is it really this toxic in the UK? There is so much poisonous Jewish hatred on here. I'm not talking hatred of Israel, just vile antisemitism on so many posts now.

I truly think I have to step away before I lose faith in humanity. Why does MN seem to attract so many hateful posters? Maybe it's the anonymity.

I can't keep calling it out. Im exhausted and actually deeply disturbed by it now.

Charlotte Church owes her fame to her manager Jonathan Shalit, who is a Zionist Jew. Love that for her 😆

Perfect.

Soon you’ll be able to recognise which of those share the sole communal brain cell, identifiable by their incredibly limited vocabulary and derivative posting style.

I’m staying away from the Middle East threads. I have enough proof that antisemitism is deeply entrenched in the Uk without choosing to read about more of it on SM. Those who reduce the current conflict, along with centuries of antisemitism, to Palestine good, Israel bad, there’s no point engaging.

I think you're being very sensible 🙃 It's pretty bad on there

Saw so many things on Instagram Today... prominent woman calling out the left and the 'yummy mummies of Notting hill' on their marches screaming for intifada.

Not sure if reposting someone's posts is a good idea though. Especially in light of stalkers :/

Elyon levy's made me chuckle earlier as well.

Perhaps they think intifada is the latest trend in gourmet delicacies, perhaps some kind of ciabatta with salsa?

I was thinking of reporting a thread for antagonistic derailing but it wouldn't be fair to the OP.

Sometimes MN punish the derailers instead of OP if you report for derailing

@etmoiandme it's strange I know exactly the one you mean!

I struggle a lot with the whole derailing thing. I'm possibly one of the worst offenders, but it's because I can't let things slide. If someone makes an on-topic and valid point but then also says something outrageous or uses particularly hateful rhetoric, I can't just let them get away with it. That often leads to the whole thread being derailed as I've picked up on something unrelated to the topic at hand 🙈 I just can't let it slide though. I always feel bad but I think people need to be called out when they're saying something completely wrong.

Perhaps they think intifada is the latest trend in gourmet delicacies, perhaps some kind of ciabatta with salsa?

😂

It's so awful on here but omg Twitter... I went on there the other day and ended up down a rabbit hole of the worst blatant anti- semitism I have ever seen. No trying to hide it.

I reported about 10 posts and got an email from Twitter saying none of them breached their guidelines. Wtf.

I think derailing is also just the way antisemitism goes. It’s easy to throw accusations and hard to defend against them. The strategy of antisemites is to flood the world with accusations against Jews so that we can maybe defend ourselves against individual ones but not against the whole tsunami. The antisemite doesn’t need to be coherent or honest but their interlocutor does which puts us on the back foot.

‘Zionists harvest organs!’ And off you go to read what they’ve shared and it transpires, nope, it does not say zionists harvest organs at all, but too late they’ve already moved on to the next thing! ‘Here’s a contextless video of an Israeli shouting at a Palestinian boy!’ So you go to find context, find out the boy stabbed 2 people, but too late! ‘We’ve moved on to how Jewish doctors forcibly sterilise black women!’ So you read what they’ve shared and no, no they don’t, that’s not what it says at all, but too late! ‘We’ve moved on to how Israel is committing war crimes every day!’ No they’re n- ‘Jews think God promised them the land 😂’ No you’re confusing the story of the exodus from Egypt with- ‘Netanyahu!’ ‘Zionists control the USA!’ ‘Settler occupiers!’

Yes that's the difficulty really because in amongst the emotive hyperbole and hateful rhetoric there's a huge amount of misinformation being spread and it absolutely needs countered. I just got so frustrated yesterday by that thread in particular because it's an important subject that's driving a huge amount of the hate just now. There's a few posters now who seem quite focused on just turning up to every thread going that has a strong presence of Jewish women when they could quite easily discuss their points in the countless other, more relevant threads. There must be hundreds now! It's hilarious though that they start off under the guise of "I'm just here to learn'"(the new "please excuse my ignorance") but with absolutely no intention of listening - the motivation is to antagonise and shut down Jewish women and derailing is the easiest tactic. It's just driven by antisemitism.

There's been a couple of really good threads on the FWR board recently that have been a lot more cordial because most of them stay away from it and the few that do turn up get their arse robustly handed to them. I find these threads really useful for links to articles that basically have a lot more nuance and objectivity than the Electronic Intifada and Instagram!

@etmoiandme thank you, I might have a look at that board later. I keep thinking I'll stay away from the other board for my own sanity but then keep being drawn back in. I'm just horrified. At this point I really want people to stop using the words "anti-zionist" unless they also openly acknowledge that they are against the existence of the state of Israel. If they're willing to say it openly rather than hide behind fancy-sounding words, other people can see who these posters really are and that it's not peace they're after. They'll get a little feel of what we're up against.

It's difficult, isn't it. I've mainly stopped visiting those boards too.

"I'm not antisemitic, just anti-Zionist" - this seems to be viewed as some kind of get out of jail free card and definitely needs challenging although i just cba on mn any more. I don't know if it's ignorance or wilful misunderstanding.

It’s easy to throw accusations and hard to defend against them.

It's called the Gish Gallop. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gish_gallop

I'm not antisemitic, just anti-Zionist

Ah yes, Hamas claim this too.

You mean Hamas the freedom fighting resistance group? Well, if it's good enough for them...

@cauliflowerwaterfall @etmoiandme that thread was awful.
I had to speak to Mumsnet several times about getting things deleted that were blatantly untrue.
Some posters on the threads especially under the guise of 'learning' are so mean.... and I have a suspicions about being 'followed' off Mumsnet.
I mean wtf (in a calm measured way)

What do you mean followed off Mumsnet?

@noblegiraffe onto other sites. On which I have a different name. I am not the only one. I have spoken to Mumsnet.

This was my concern too. It's why I not only changed my username but deleted my previous account and now only post from random IP addresses.

Jeez some people need to get a life. How creepy.

@noblegiraffe I've never heard of Gish gallop before, but yes this does make perfect sense

Gish galloping prioritizes the quantity of the galloper's arguments at the expense of their quality

(although I'm hesitant to credit some with the intelligence for knowingly using the technique)