Really strange error & now mum owes thousands- help

[Helpmymum]

I'll try and keep this as simple as possible, I'm just seeing if anyone has any advice or insight into how this might play out before we start contacting people tomorrow.

My elderly, widowed & (totally alone for the past year 😪) mother got a letter late Friday afternoon which was spent special delivery from a pension company. In short, it said that she took a bond out 20 years ago which was cashed in 15 years ago and her account was closed, she was no longer a customer. They then said that they are really sorry but they have just discovered during an audit that they had mistakenly used her bank account details with another bond for another customer and she has been receiving a monthly payment for the last 20 years in error. This amounts to an awful lot of money, tens of thousands of pounds. And it needs to be repaid. We have checked and she has been receiving the payment in her account.

She was widowed a long time ago and when my father died, my sister and I where both toddlers and so she employed a financial advisor to deal with the finances, obviosuly to eliviate the stress. She is not wealthy by any means, she owns a modest house (which was paid for by my dad's life insurance policy), has a small amount of savings (which is with the financial advisor invested in whatever he thinks) and collects her pension.

I can understand why she wouldn't question this money going in as she just left everything to the financial advisor, he obviously opened the bond and cashed it out and payments of this nature were expected/ perfectly normal.

After receiving the letter, my sister immediately called the financial advisor who said he had never dealt with anything like this before and was working from home, he would need to go into the office on Monday morning to have a look at the records. My sister then called the company in question, it's a large, well known company so she didn't take the number from the letter just incase it was a scam and found the number from Google. She called and a person in the company could not find any record of this or the letter having been sent out, however she did say she wasn't part of the relevant department and the person who's signature was on the letter did infact work there. It was so late on Friday afternoon, there was no one there who could help or knew anymore.

My poor mum has been in an absolute state all weekend, she's thinking she is going to have to sell her house to pay this back. I think technically she does owe the money as we can see she has recieved it. Does anyone have any idea of what might happen?

First thing tomorrow is a call to citizens advice and legal advice, obviosuly talk to the financial advisor and the company in question too.

I think I'm just asking if anyone knows what we might be in for here?

Thanks

@ChessieFL

Tatiana that’s what happened when the OP first rang the company but OP later confirmed she had rung back and spoken to the person who wrote the letter.

She has not spoken to the person who wrote the letter. When she called: “the contact person on the letter was not available to talk so we left a message”.

@Helpmymum

Regarding it being a scam or not, I'm almost 100% convinced it isn't. Like a few people have pointed out, we contacted the company from the official telephone number on their website and left a message, this message was then directly replied to via email from the person mentioned on the letter (who weve established does work there) and the email came from an official email address of the company. I have also spoken with the FCA who regulate the company and confirmed the number was genuine. Mum has also recieved the payments, with the reference on her statements being that company. So although I would usually be skeptical about such an unusual situation I just can't fathom how it could be a scam 🤷‍♀️.

Xpost, it’s not impossible for someone who works there to use information they have found.

My first post on this thread takes the case as genuine, but given the details, as I said, I would get official confirmation first.

You already know the phone number is genuine as you got it from their website. But you haven’t spoken to the woman directly on that phone number.

@Helpmymum - has the IFA come back to you with any records yet?

You're sucking me in @TatianaBis

So the scammer steals the bond company info, sends a letter with the genuine phone number and the same of an actual person who works there say Sally Smith. Then relies on Sally not being available when the OP phones up and random Julie who answers the phone is in on the scam and passes the contact details to fake Sally who has spoofed the email system of the company to respond?

It's way too far fetched. Have they invested all this effort on one scam on the off chance that the person who gets the recorded delivery effort is financially not very astute and has poor mental health or have they sent It to everyone who had bond payments?

Don't offer £1 a month. That will acknowledge the debt as due and her estate will be liable for the balance in due course.

I would be very nice about it. Tell them she is elderly and vulnerable that this is causing her huge amounts of anxiety and a

Whoops posted too soon and as you have said here that she did not realise that the money should have been paid to her, she legitimately thought it was hers and does not have the means to repay. I suspect they will write it off.

I have no idea if the legal. But too would consider not paying even £1 back. Once you offer/commit to that, they've got you.

If it's a big company and they are regularly audited and all their finances are regularly reviewed the fact that this hasn't been spotted before is an absolute disgrace, they are really chancing it here!

and as pp's have suggested I would tell them to absolutely sling their hook and it was taken in good faith and there will be no repayment at all ! in a very polite but very hard nosed way.
Maybe with solicitor wording aswell!

@FlyingBurrito Surely you can do better than that?

[quote TatianaBis]@FlyingBurrito Surely you can do better than that?[/quote]
No, I genuinely can't see how calling the actual company would fit with a scam. Can you explain please

I know this is a theoretical discussion as the OP knows it's not a scam but I'm still interested

There have been scams from employees within companies misusing data. But equally scams are very chancy by nature and depend on people not checking. Consider the number of people who’ve lost £££ sending payment to a fake account during legal transactions for example - if they had just rung the lawyer involved and double-checked they wouldn’t have lost money.

Never acknowledge that you owe a debt under such nefarious circumstances.

I spent some time working in the debt collection industry and it is notable for its corruption. They would not even have got a reply from me until letter #8 or #9.

They could only really recover six years plus the current financial year, I believe.

Seek legal advise but essentially it may be more costly for them to try and reclaim it, don't pay it back without a fight.

Then again it could just be a scam!

Yes - there is a point at which many debts (but not all) become statute barred. OP needs to look into this by seeking the advice of a specialist solicitor. In the meantime she should neither "admit" the debt or specifically refuse to pay it back. Keep them hanging.

Back in the early 2000s I had some old debts but because of changes in the Consumer Credit Act the original paperwork had become worthless and unenforceable. The original creditors had sold on the debts to sleazy debt collection agencies who buy up old debts for pence in the pound. I took great pleasure in leading them a merry dance until all became statute barred.

@Helpmymum

Just thought I would update incase anyone has invested. We recieved an email from the lady who was mentioned on the first letter asking questions about mums opinion on what had happened. It mentioned that they were sorry for the upset caused and they would like to discuss what is an affordable repayment. The email wasn't written very well, I expect it was done in haste without much care. We have replied with what the solicitor friend suggested and ignored all her questions. So far, no reply. When we get one and if it seems serious, I'll look to instruct a commercial litigation lawyer. Thanks again for all opinions and advice.

Sorry if I'm being naive but would you need a commercial litigation lawyer?

The important thing is to establish a repayment plan, surely. So you need a solicitor to look at statute barring etc

I wonder if a good accountant would be better and have knowledge of these disputes being resolved without litigation.

@Helpmymum

Regarding it being a scam or not, I'm almost 100% convinced it isn't. Like a few people have pointed out, we contacted the company from the official telephone number on their website and left a message, this message was then directly replied to via email from the person mentioned on the letter (who weve established does work there) and the email came from an official email address of the company. I have also spoken with the FCA who regulate the company and confirmed the number was genuine. Mum has also recieved the payments, with the reference on her statements being that company. So although I would usually be skeptical about such an unusual situation I just can't fathom how it could be a scam 🤷‍♀️.

Did you ask the FCA about money paid in error?

www.money.co.uk/guides/can-you-keep-money-accidentally-paid-into-your-bank-account.htm

Your mums situation is very similar to a rare case described in that link where they were able to keep the money. Similarly your mum would be able to demonstrate she genuinely believed the money was hers.

Moreover the large company would've conducted dozens of audits if not hundreds.

The letter will be heavy handed but that is to convince you to VOLUNTARILY return the money via a debt agreement.

Do not admit liability. Do not even respond. At all. Get a solicitor to respond.

There is a lot of misinformation on here - but also some good advice. They are trying to get your mother to acknowledge a debt to increase the time for which they can claim repayment. Therefore she needs to keep denying that there is a debt. When asking for what she thinks happened they want anything that admits there is a debt. Therefore you keep denying there is a debt. Your mother received - and spent - money that she reasonably believed she was entitled to. You can admit that much, make no offer to repay at all.

Keep the faith, they will probably write it off.

I would suggest contacting Age UK and CAB for advice. I would do a lot of research and ask a lot of questions before and if parting with any money. Like other posters have said, could be a scam.
Also - a post on the money saving expert forum might help too and see what others say there.

Best of luck, hope it gets sorted and saves a lot of worry

A lot of unnecessary talk about debt here.
It is not debt the poor lady did not borrow this money there is no credit agreement.
The company made the 'alleged misrake' of paying money into the ladies account over many years.
The lady owes nothing. No payments should be offerred and the company should leave her alone and investigate the employee who started these payments -.where did their system go wrong?

OP please don't blame your mum for this it is just a mistake - and not your mum's mistake.
Tell the company in no uncertain words to leave your mother alone.

Pensions funds are very sensitive about their reputations. Im sure they would not want their maladministration exposed on social and national media, or TV. Much less their harassment of a vulnerable elderly person.

I used to work a for a large bank, in these circumstances a ‘mistake of fact’ letter would be sent out, i.e. ‘we’ve made a mistake in paying you this money, you weren’t entitled to it, how do you propose to pay it back?’
If you compose a reply saying your mother is elderly, vulnerable and incredibly distressed at the situation and try to out some owners back in the company especially as they have failed to discover their error in a timely manner, making it worse.
I actually would raise a complaint, especially as they are an FCA regulated company.
Although it was their error, I think the thing going against them here is the timescale it went on for. , They are entitled to ask for it back but really is it reasonable after such a protracted period that they didn’t identify their mistake?
They may back down, however I have known these cases be sent on to a legal department to take forward.
My personal opinion is make a complaint stressing all of the above, say you’ll take it to the Ombudsman if you don’t get a satisfactory answer / fair outcome. If they still Pursue it, offer a very small repayment amount that won’t put your mother into financial hardship,

Should say ‘ try to put some owness back on the company’ not ‘and try to out some owners back in the company’

Gah - ONUS not owness!!