Really strange error & now mum owes thousands- help

[Helpmymum]

I'll try and keep this as simple as possible, I'm just seeing if anyone has any advice or insight into how this might play out before we start contacting people tomorrow.

My elderly, widowed & (totally alone for the past year 😪) mother got a letter late Friday afternoon which was spent special delivery from a pension company. In short, it said that she took a bond out 20 years ago which was cashed in 15 years ago and her account was closed, she was no longer a customer. They then said that they are really sorry but they have just discovered during an audit that they had mistakenly used her bank account details with another bond for another customer and she has been receiving a monthly payment for the last 20 years in error. This amounts to an awful lot of money, tens of thousands of pounds. And it needs to be repaid. We have checked and she has been receiving the payment in her account.

She was widowed a long time ago and when my father died, my sister and I where both toddlers and so she employed a financial advisor to deal with the finances, obviosuly to eliviate the stress. She is not wealthy by any means, she owns a modest house (which was paid for by my dad's life insurance policy), has a small amount of savings (which is with the financial advisor invested in whatever he thinks) and collects her pension.

I can understand why she wouldn't question this money going in as she just left everything to the financial advisor, he obviously opened the bond and cashed it out and payments of this nature were expected/ perfectly normal.

After receiving the letter, my sister immediately called the financial advisor who said he had never dealt with anything like this before and was working from home, he would need to go into the office on Monday morning to have a look at the records. My sister then called the company in question, it's a large, well known company so she didn't take the number from the letter just incase it was a scam and found the number from Google. She called and a person in the company could not find any record of this or the letter having been sent out, however she did say she wasn't part of the relevant department and the person who's signature was on the letter did infact work there. It was so late on Friday afternoon, there was no one there who could help or knew anymore.

My poor mum has been in an absolute state all weekend, she's thinking she is going to have to sell her house to pay this back. I think technically she does owe the money as we can see she has recieved it. Does anyone have any idea of what might happen?

First thing tomorrow is a call to citizens advice and legal advice, obviosuly talk to the financial advisor and the company in question too.

I think I'm just asking if anyone knows what we might be in for here?

Thanks

@winniestone37

The best scanners use legit names sorry. I’m betting this is definitely a scam. If not they can’t force her to sell her house.

Read the thread (or at least all the OP's posts). It's not a scam. The OP/her sister is fully in touch with the genuine company. They researched the phone number and the person and are phoning and emailing directly with the large, well known company.

@SchadenfreudePersonified - Your mum hasn't perpetrated any fraud; she has spent money which she legitimately believed - and had every reason to believe - was her own.

But why would she believe this, if she'd just had a lump sum from cashing in the bond that was apparently paying out a monthly sum??? 🤔

Haven't rtft sorry no time, but I believe they can't necessarily go back more than 6 years since the date they informed you, although this matter is complicated. Even with that if your mother has relied on that income in spending decisions that would otherwise not have been made then she may only have to repay some of it.

I wouldn't be paying a penny without an excellent solicitor.

A debt cannot be enforced after six years
Once a debt has become statute barred, there aren't any actions the creditor can take to unbar it. Once six years without contact or acknowledgement has passed, legal action to enforce the debt is still barred even if you were to make a payment or acknowledge the debt.
Hopefully your mother shall just have 6 years to pay back as they have not chased it.
If it isn't a scam that is.
My other thought was that they are scammers who somehow hacked a file of pension customers who's contract had ended which contained customer information and details of the account.

@winniestone37

The best scanners use legit names sorry. I’m betting this is definitely a scam. If not they can’t force her to sell her house.

Well it's a pretty darn long and complicated one involving a financial advisor and a bond company and 20 years of payments.

It was established yesterday that it's not a scam so I'm not taking any betting tips from you

I don’t think it’s by any means certain yet it’s not a scam, it may be a sophisticated one. OP needs to establish if the claim is indeed genuine.

@Gnomewithaview

How can it be a scam if the money is being paid into the account and no-one knows why? I’m pretty sure if you kick up a big enough fuss the company will back down, good luck

They're demanding money back. They know somehow your mother is receiving money from the pension co, or can make a good guess. They know the name of the department head who (supposedly) sent the letter They can copy the logo and print their own headed paper

When they have convinced your mum to pay it back they will give their own bank details to pay it back to. Not the pension company.

Pop their own phone number on the letter on google, is it coming up with the company? also google ,(number) + scam, and see what comes up

Even if it IS legit, it is a major error on the part of the pension company and shouldn't be refunded (IMO) as it's been received in good faith - as someone above says the Telegraph lady seems very good.

oops just realised I missed out reading a page. And it's not a scam

But that is how a scam would work

@Moonstone1234

I have POA for both my parents. You can do yourself which I did for £82 each. Solicitors will charge 3-4 times this but they will still need signing. It needs to be strictly signed in a specific order and think who your Mums certificate provider will be i.e GP or similar.

If your DM loses capacity it’s very difficult and time consuming to organise and costs £££

Ugh, I didn't know you could do it yourself. Dad's solicitor advised he do this years ago and charged £350 for each one.

It could easily be a scam, but regardless, this was an error on the part of the company. They should be willing to make a reasonable repayment plan with your mother. However, do not agree to anything until you have spoken with a solicitor who specializes in things like this.

BTW. There is a difference between a power of attorney and a lasting power of attorney. (England).

GOV.UK info HERE

Which website info on LPAs

Sounds like something that would happen to my mum, she is clueless re finances and has shoved all her account details at my uncle who deals with everyone for her. She won’t even accept a work man calling her, he has to go through my uncle, who is thoroughly fed up. I’ve had to be super forceful recently re POA, god knows what she thought we’d do if she were to become unable to deal with the doctor/future care. She didn’t want to do it until I told her we knew her wishes, but her doctor might not do what she wanted.

She should only be liable for maximum 6 years worth, at a payment plan of say £20 a month.
She’ll barely pay it off but that’s their problem, not yours.

I haven’t read the whole thread so apologies if someone has already mentioned this, but it could be worth a call to the Financial Ombudsman to see if anyone there can advise.

Does none know the legal definition of a debt in the UK. Posters are talking about the OPs Mum paying back the debt but is she legally a ‘debtor’ 🤔

I’ve no idea.

Sounds like a scam. Do not reply.

@Helpmymum
What the solicitor friend advised is absolutely, 100%, the thing to do.,

Follow the sol advice to the letter. Do not add anything or take away anything from what the sol suggested.

To be honest it sounds like a scam. It wouldn’t be unheard off someone working into their own pocket under the companies name and Weblinks on google can still be faked. And technically it would be the financial adviser at fault for not noticing but as it’s been going for so long I’m also fairly certain as it was their error they can not request it back for the full amount. That is if it is genuine.

If you were going to ask for advice from the media I’d always chose Martin Lewis from Radio 4’s MoneyBox

I'm quoting myself as I made a mistake. I meant Paul Lewis not Martin Lewis.

(Paul is the one with the lovely soothing gentle voice and Martin is the one with the extremely hyper over-excited irritating voice. Both are great at what they do though😊)

First of all, instruct a solicitor specialising in this field. I would suggest professional negligence as it has signs of it in respect of the company that was paying in to your mother's account wrongly and/or possibly (but a big question mark as s/he may not have anything to do with this at all (and that's what it looks like, but do get advice), the IFA in the context of your mother's capacity or lack thereof. The solicitor should advise in respect of your mother's potential liability, how the Limitation Act applies in this case and the above at least, and then prepare a response letter, from what you wrote.

I have some concerns about your mother's capacity now, so establishing a PoA is the right thing to do, asap. Like pps have said, it currently takes around 3 months to have it registered. You should also ask your mum not to sign or respond to anything without talking to you or her other attorneys first. Secondly, does she have a will? If not, now is the time to do it.

Do not rely on advice of an uninstructed (and possibly not a specialist one?) "solicitor friend". This is not a straightforward area.

Get all the relevant paperwork in order, everything that you can dig out from your mother's records.

Legal expenses insurance even if you've purchased one now is unlikely to offer you any cover because the cause of action has already arisen - it's like buying a life insurance policy when you already found out you have stage 1 cancer. Having said that, it depends on the policy, so do read it and check what types of claims are covered too - not all of them will be.
Another option is the after the event insurance.

Don't cut corners on this now, it will lead to an even bigger mess which can be avoided.

Good luck.

@maqsv

Sounds like a scam. Do not reply.

It's been established that it isn't a scam.

This sounds like it is the company at fault here .I would take legal advice .If they are at fault then they will have to sort it out I think .No way would an elderly person be expected to sell their home surely?

You say that you phoned the company( by getting the number through google) and they cannot find anything of that nature on their screen(computer) but it's not their department. Whether it's their department or not' once they put your mums details in computer'all transactions'letters ect will display on their screen' so something isnt adding up hun. Also why hasnt your mums financial advisor flagged this if hes been dealing with all your mums finances for such a long time. I would still deal with this as though it's a scam. Hope you get this sorted out so your mum has peace of mind.

Whilst it screams 'scam', given that the mother has been receiving payments for years, it is likely to be a company mistake.
But surely the onus would be on them to fix this? If it were me I'd definitely seek legal advice on this one. Good luck OP.

Either the company or the financial advisor may have some kind of indemnity insurance to cover this (PI) for company made errors