Really strange error & now mum owes thousands- help

[Helpmymum]

I'll try and keep this as simple as possible, I'm just seeing if anyone has any advice or insight into how this might play out before we start contacting people tomorrow.

My elderly, widowed & (totally alone for the past year 😪) mother got a letter late Friday afternoon which was spent special delivery from a pension company. In short, it said that she took a bond out 20 years ago which was cashed in 15 years ago and her account was closed, she was no longer a customer. They then said that they are really sorry but they have just discovered during an audit that they had mistakenly used her bank account details with another bond for another customer and she has been receiving a monthly payment for the last 20 years in error. This amounts to an awful lot of money, tens of thousands of pounds. And it needs to be repaid. We have checked and she has been receiving the payment in her account.

She was widowed a long time ago and when my father died, my sister and I where both toddlers and so she employed a financial advisor to deal with the finances, obviosuly to eliviate the stress. She is not wealthy by any means, she owns a modest house (which was paid for by my dad's life insurance policy), has a small amount of savings (which is with the financial advisor invested in whatever he thinks) and collects her pension.

I can understand why she wouldn't question this money going in as she just left everything to the financial advisor, he obviously opened the bond and cashed it out and payments of this nature were expected/ perfectly normal.

After receiving the letter, my sister immediately called the financial advisor who said he had never dealt with anything like this before and was working from home, he would need to go into the office on Monday morning to have a look at the records. My sister then called the company in question, it's a large, well known company so she didn't take the number from the letter just incase it was a scam and found the number from Google. She called and a person in the company could not find any record of this or the letter having been sent out, however she did say she wasn't part of the relevant department and the person who's signature was on the letter did infact work there. It was so late on Friday afternoon, there was no one there who could help or knew anymore.

My poor mum has been in an absolute state all weekend, she's thinking she is going to have to sell her house to pay this back. I think technically she does owe the money as we can see she has recieved it. Does anyone have any idea of what might happen?

First thing tomorrow is a call to citizens advice and legal advice, obviosuly talk to the financial advisor and the company in question too.

I think I'm just asking if anyone knows what we might be in for here?

Thanks

Surely if a big company made a mistake that’s their problem. They can’t expect someone to pay back money twenty years later, that’s ridiculous. Their error, their loss. Clearly they don’t do very good auditing if it’s taken them this long to pick it up. Good luck OP!

Not 100% sure on this but I have been lead to believe that if a company has not contacted you within 6 years of your account going into debt then you are no longer liable for that debt.
www.citizensadvice.org.uk/debt-and-money/help-with-debt/dealing-with-your-debts/check-if-you-have-to-pay-a-debt/#:~:text=For%20most%20debts%2C%20the%20time,is%20longer%20for%20mortgage%20debts.&text=Your%20debt%20could%20be%20statute,any%20payments%20towards%20the%20debt

The payment have stopped which is good, I would start by going through their own complaints procedure and if this doesn't resolve escalate to the financial Ombudsman. (you usually have to have been through the company complaints procedures first but check, you might be able to go directly). Also if your Mum is struggling to cope with the stress talk to her about you and your sister having Lasting Power of Attorney so that you can act on her behalf.

@Helpmymum

Do nothing in haste! I would guess it's a scam but if not there is a limitation period for recovery of a debt. It used to be 6 years but I have not kept up to date sadly these days. Please get professional advice from a solicitor

@PurplePansy05 - I would suggest professional negligence as it has signs of it in respect of the company that was paying in to your mother's account wrongly and/or possibly (but a big question mark as s/he may not have anything to do with this at all (and that's what it looks like, but do get advice), the IFA in the context of your mother's capacity or lack thereof.

The IFA sold the OP's mum the bond 20 years ago and she encashed it 15 years ago. How do you suggest we go back in time to 20 years ago to see what OP's mum's state of mind was?

There's absolutely no way to prove this.

I suggest you re-read my post @tenlittlecygnets, you got the wrong end of the stick here.

What did you mean then, @PurplePansy05? Your post was quite convoluted.

@tenlittlecygnets I disagree, but ok. I meant that once OP obtains professional advice from a specialist solicitor this should cover potential liability of all parties - her mother, the company paying her and the IFA. I have also explained that in case of the IFA any such liability is unlikely. In the context of her mother's mental capacity of course it is not possible to consider it 20 years later, however if the IFA did not follow the procedure and failed to assess it more recently then clearly there is a failure to obtain valid instructions on their part in respect of recent financial decisions - which is a separate issue to OP's mother's main issue. Her mother may, from what she wrote, have capacity issues now and if that's the case then the advice should also cover this element. I trust this clarifies the position sufficiently for you.

@PurplePansy05 - Ah, your revised version is much clearer. Thank you. You originally said:

First of all, instruct a solicitor specialising in this field. I would suggest professional negligence as it has signs of it in respect of the company that was paying in to your mother's account wrongly and/or possibly (but a big question mark as s/he may not have anything to do with this at all (and that's what it looks like, but do get advice), the IFA in the context of your mother's capacity or lack thereof.

Can you see why this was so confusing?? You've got a stray opening bracket and lots of waffle.

@tenlittlecygnets It may have been confusing for someone jumping on the majority of posters on this thread. Have a cuppa

@PurplePansy05 - what do you mean?

I'm horrified by the number of posters on this thread who haven't RTFT and who blithely give 'advice' without having the faintest idea what they're talking about, whether they're right or wrong, or what an IFA's duties and responsbilities are.

@tenlittlecygnets Well, I think we've all noticed that.

You're right the advice isn't correct in many posts and people don't read. That's MN though. I think, however, it's enough to say it once and hope the OP will be able to pick up on those pieces of advice that are valuable. To begin with, looking for help with this sort of issues on MN instead of heading to a specialist is a bad idea. Lawyers exist for a reason, despite them being frequently slagged off for a multitude of largely unfair reasons. I am sure it applies to all regulated professions but there is no need to get overly invested. You won't win this battle, that's my POV.

You're right, you're right. Off for that suggested cup of tea.

Lawyers and IFAs both!

Sorry no advice for op as it sounds like she's going along the right channels anyway but man, I would like to see temporary banning for posters who blindly post 'it's a scam!', 'not rtft but...' 'cancel the cheque!' etc without at the very least reading all the op's posts. How bloody rude and arrogant.

My 2 pence. Do not let your mother deal with this company directly. She's a vulnerable elderly person with a record of signing things without reading and understanding them, and she could easily be browbeaten into paying up when she doesn't need to. So get all communication with the company done through an intermediary.

(I accept you can't actually stop her doing stuff on her own, but do what you can.)

Even scams will get details correct (the sneaky done it before ones not the ones who can't even spell the basics type) some scams are extremely realistic to the point of companies finding it hard to tell someone is impersonating them.

Hold on til Monday and see what happens when you speak to the actual person on the letter and speak to the financial advisor. Chances are if neither have records of it then it is a scam or a mistake. But just hold tight until you know all the facts

Agree with @safariboot OP. Might your mother need you to be her financial POA now? Sorry this must be stressful.

@bemusedmoose

Even scams will get details correct (the sneaky done it before ones not the ones who can't even spell the basics type) some scams are extremely realistic to the point of companies finding it hard to tell someone is impersonating them.

Hold on til Monday and see what happens when you speak to the actual person on the letter and speak to the financial advisor. Chances are if neither have records of it then it is a scam or a mistake. But just hold tight until you know all the facts

The OP started the thread last weekend, Monday has been and gone anothe knows it's not a scam

I have two points to make.

First to OP. It's fine to tell folk you are helping your mother with this confusing situation - it's confusing to everyone, as it stands. But be careful not to suggest that your mother does not have mental capacity to deal with her financial affairs, until you have got POA registered. POA can only be obtained in one of two ways: either she signs up to you/your sister having POA (the easy way) or, if she has already lost capacity, then you/your sister have to go to court to be appointed (the hard way). The easy way is much cheaper and much quicker. Once POA is in place, your mother can carry on managing her financial affairs as long as she wants and is capable; but it will be much easier for you/your sister to take over as and when necessary.

Second point, to everyone who is blaming the IFA. We have recently engaged with 3 different IFAs. They take a snapshot of your financial situation, and provide advice on the basis of the information you supply. They did not, and will not, see our bank accounts, not even a copy of statements. They just wanted a summary of incomings (value & source) and outgoings (value and destination/category, eg £x on utilities per year, £y on car costs etc) and an indication of future needs and wants (eg pension, moving house etc). It would be extremely unusual for any IFA to have the kind of detailed information about funds coming into this lady's bank account long after she cashed in an investment on his advice.

Good luck, OP, sounds tricky. Glad your Mum has you on her side.

It's something you'd expect a family accountant to pick up on but not an IFA - they don't have access to the minutiae of what's in your bank accounts.

An accountant doing tax returns would be aware of all declared incomings.

@TatianaBis

It's something you'd expect a family accountant to pick up on but not an IFA - they don't have access to the minutiae of what's in your bank accounts.

An accountant doing tax returns would be aware of all declared incomings.

What's a family accountant? That's not a thing is it? I know some people who have their own businesses have an accountant to do their tax but I've never come across it as a routine thing for a family to have. The

Hi Op, did you manage to get to the bottom of this?

@SoMuchBadInfo You sound like you actually know what you are talking about 😅. Out of interest, do you think it would be a bad idea (and if so why) for the OP to do nothing apart from telling the Company that there was no reason for the OPs Mum to ever think that the money was being paid in error, that the money is long gone and that she won’t be giving the company any money.