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Original poster

Really strange error & now mum owes thousands- help

441 replies

Helpmymum · 28/03/2021 19:18

I'll try and keep this as simple as possible, I'm just seeing if anyone has any advice or insight into how this might play out before we start contacting people tomorrow.

My elderly, widowed & (totally alone for the past year 😪) mother got a letter late Friday afternoon which was spent special delivery from a pension company. In short, it said that she took a bond out 20 years ago which was cashed in 15 years ago and her account was closed, she was no longer a customer. They then said that they are really sorry but they have just discovered during an audit that they had mistakenly used her bank account details with another bond for another customer and she has been receiving a monthly payment for the last 20 years in error. This amounts to an awful lot of money, tens of thousands of pounds. And it needs to be repaid. We have checked and she has been receiving the payment in her account.

She was widowed a long time ago and when my father died, my sister and I where both toddlers and so she employed a financial advisor to deal with the finances, obviosuly to eliviate the stress. She is not wealthy by any means, she owns a modest house (which was paid for by my dad's life insurance policy), has a small amount of savings (which is with the financial advisor invested in whatever he thinks) and collects her pension.

I can understand why she wouldn't question this money going in as she just left everything to the financial advisor, he obviously opened the bond and cashed it out and payments of this nature were expected/ perfectly normal.

After receiving the letter, my sister immediately called the financial advisor who said he had never dealt with anything like this before and was working from home, he would need to go into the office on Monday morning to have a look at the records. My sister then called the company in question, it's a large, well known company so she didn't take the number from the letter just incase it was a scam and found the number from Google. She called and a person in the company could not find any record of this or the letter having been sent out, however she did say she wasn't part of the relevant department and the person who's signature was on the letter did infact work there. It was so late on Friday afternoon, there was no one there who could help or knew anymore.

My poor mum has been in an absolute state all weekend, she's thinking she is going to have to sell her house to pay this back. I think technically she does owe the money as we can see she has recieved it. Does anyone have any idea of what might happen?

First thing tomorrow is a call to citizens advice and legal advice, obviosuly talk to the financial advisor and the company in question too.

I think I'm just asking if anyone knows what we might be in for here?

Thanks

OP posts:
LionLily · 28/03/2021 19:59
  1. Who cashed out the bond all those years ago, and where did the proceeds go. Into whose bank account precisely. And 2) how inefficient can a company be that they don't discover this for decades.

If it turns out your mother does owe the money, well they can just put a charge on the house to be paid after her death and blimming wait for their money. After all, they're clearly a bit lax on the accounting front, they probably won't notice.

ArosGartref · 28/03/2021 20:01

How is it a scam? It's basic numbers.

If you send out a 1000 letters from Legal and General saying we've paid you in error for several years. Maybe 300 of those 1000 would have income from legal and general. Maybe 1 of those would be scared enough to pay a few grand without question.

Obviously we don't have the full content of the letter but scams work by targetting large numbers of people. Look at the delivery scam that's happening now - increased numbers of people at home and using online delivery - more chance of sucess.

alreadytaken · 28/03/2021 20:02

@FlyingBurrito I can think of at least one way of easily finding the information - not going to encourage scams by describing it. As I'm not a scammer there are probably any number of other ways.

MM321 · 28/03/2021 20:03

Oh @Helpmymum your poor mum 😓 I can imagine how distressing it would be when that kind of money is involved. Are you and your sister able to take over and deal with this on your mums behalf? I can imagine there’s going to be lots of back and forward phone calls 😓

Completely agree with what some others are saying - pay absolutely nothing until you have proper legal advice!! This is an error by the pension company. If your Mum has been receiving this payment does that mean that someone else has not been receiving it? 🤔 Surely if that’s the case then it would have been flagged to the company by that person that they weren’t receiving a payment? 🤔

ThatsNotTheTeaHunty · 28/03/2021 20:03

I'd say it was a scam but because she has received the payments I highly doubt it isn't.

Ultimately it's the companies fault. You need to get legal advice as your mother has someone else dealing with her accounts she was not aware where this money actually came from. If she had I'm sure she wouldn't of accepted the money.

Do not set any payment plan up. Do not hand over a penny. Communicate with them a lot so they are aware you're willing to speak to them etc.

Get legal advice ASAP as I don't think she should pay a penny back. That's their mess up and she wasn't in control of her accounts.

PeonyRose80 · 28/03/2021 20:04

A company would be regularly audited both internally and externally over the past 15 years. Technology has improved so much in the past 15 years that audits pick up so much more. (guess my profession) In this case the most obvious answer is likely to be correct and that is a scam....!

alreadytaken · 28/03/2021 20:05

My method is not the same as crazycatlady83's - so now we have 2 people who can think of simple ways to scam an elderly person.

PeonyRose80 · 28/03/2021 20:06

An audit could have picked this up but for it to be happening for 15 years, the company will likely be liable as would be their error.... although I still think it’s a scam

Original poster
Helpmymum · 28/03/2021 20:12

Thanks for all the replies everyone. My immediate reaction was that it was a scam too but after delving into it, it looks legitimate. She has been receiving the money for the whole time and the letter also stated that the incorrect payments also stopped 6 months ago, we have checked and again this correlates with her bank account. I also have so many questions, if they stopped the payments 6 months ago then why have they only just sent this letter now? There was no payment details on the letter, it just said due to the significant figure please can she call to discuss repayment. My sister also got the phone number for the company from their website but she has just confirmed that the phone number was the same as that printed on the letter. At this point I'm thinking it's not a scam 😭 but I really hope it is! Life is so u fair sometimes. My mum is literally the most honest, lovely, kind and generous person I have ever met. She's had quite a few shit blows in her lifetime, she's been really ill the last couple of years and then of course for this to happen after a year of covid, I'm so sad for her.

OP posts:
Loopylobes · 28/03/2021 20:13

Don't have any further conversations with the company until you've had legal advice.

They have put the money into her account. You need to establish whether they are entitled to reclaim it before doing anything.

FlyingBurrito · 28/03/2021 20:15

I absolutely agree that there are lots of scams of all sorts and maybe I'll be wrong but this doesn't instantly feel like one to me.

Please come back and post when you find out more information @Helpmymum . Don't invest your time in calling all and sundry until you've spoken to the person who sent the letter at the pension company. Posters on here have a tendency to jump right to the end of something without gping through all the proper steps

BenoneBeauty · 28/03/2021 20:17

Your poor mum - hope you get sorted. I'd kick up a massive fuss - they can't make a pensioner homeless in order to force her to repay the debt (if in fact she is liable to repay it). It was their mistake so they need to own that.

NoSquirrels · 28/03/2021 20:19

At the moment, all you know is

  1. That your mother receives a monthly payment from the company in question
  2. The name on the letter matches someone who works at that company.

Both these things are plausible for a scammer to know - employees of either bank or company could have sold details, for instance.

Financial advisor first to check records - it’s perfectly possible your mum’s receiving these monthly payments correctly.

Don’t panic!

SirGawain · 28/03/2021 20:20

She needs proper legal advice not the combined efforts of the Mumsnet jury.

FlyingBurrito · 28/03/2021 20:21

@Loopylobes

Don't have any further conversations with the company until you've had legal advice.

They have put the money into her account. You need to establish whether they are entitled to reclaim it before doing anything.

Why would you need legal advice to call to discuss the situation?

That's not necessary at all, the OP's not stupid she's not going to be signing a legally binding repayment agreement for heaven's sake she's calling to establish what on earth has been going on for the past 15 years.

Original poster
Helpmymum · 28/03/2021 20:22

Yes I also thought straight away too that surely there's a person out there that has been missing this payment for the past 20 years and they would of noticed! I havn't had a chance yet to look through all her bank statements or confirm with the bank where the money has been coming from yet. We will hopefully get a call from the financial advisor in the morning with more information. I'm just not sure whether to speak to the company first thing before getting legal advice?

OP posts:
Saltyslug · 28/03/2021 20:23

Run the telephone number through Google with the word scam

PopcornPeacock · 28/03/2021 20:23

I also think it's a scam from someone with possible inside knowledge of the company who has been making these payments to the DM's account.

Just think - elderly woman, receives payments for years, builds up to quite an amount, then ooh sorry, it's a mistake you've got to pay it back.....Here's the (FAKE) non-company account to pay it to. It side steps the company nicely.

thebabessavedme · 28/03/2021 20:23

Do nothing - let the company involved get back to your dm, they need to provide absolute proof of what they are saying with extensive evidence, you then need legal advice. This sounds an awful thing to say but if your dm is quite elderly you could spin this out for quite a while, meaning she will not be paying anything back. (sorry for sounding heartless, I dont mean it to be, just cant think of a better way to put it) Above all, dont panic! and pay nothing!

Nith · 28/03/2021 20:24

Even if this isn't a scam, I don't think she could be liable for more than six years' with of payments anyway. But she obviously needs proper advice.

WetWeekends · 28/03/2021 20:24

@Timeandtune

If you struggle to get anywhere with the company or the IFA I would contact Sally Hamilton at the Daily Telegraph. This is exactly the type of situation she specialises in. Good luck!
I agree with contacting the Telegraph, they have more sway because obviously companies don’t want bad press. I also think as a last resort I’d offer £1 a month, say that’s all she can afford. I’d be very surprised if they didn’t accept it. Wouldn’t offer anything until you’d had legal advice though. I think if you made an offer now it would be considered accepting that she owes the money.
Roadtohades · 28/03/2021 20:24

Consider contacting your local newspaper and councillor and MP and get them on your Mum's side if you have difficulty with the company. Good luck!

callmeH · 28/03/2021 20:25

@redcandlelight

how can it be a scam?

unexpected letter demanding money.
to a vulnerable older person.
of course a scam needs to be considered.

Sadly I don't think it's a scam they don't seem to have expected a cheque in return and there had been payments into her account in the period referred to. I don't know what the solution will be, it sounds a bit like the Inland Revenue who assured my son-in-law a number of times that his tax coding was right yet came at him three years later for a repayment becuase they'd made an error. Hope it works out for your mother.
Nith · 28/03/2021 20:26

The average scammer doesn't send letters by special delivery, nor are they likely to have precise details of what L&G have been paying out that would match with OP's mother's bank account.