ERA EMMA ALICE testing thread 8

[Gardenlady543]

@2021ivfagain @kerrym87 @Janefx40 @seven201 @thislittlebird @Spin101 @Enfys23
@CailinInUK @BewilderedBee @Loz2467 @Lori2022 @VenusStarr @clhiu @Faithhopelove83 @APSR @ChickenT2b @Mina209 @IVF22 @Lizzybeth1988 @AM08 @Fluffykins33 @Sar1010

Continued in from thread 7 :)

Oh no @clhiu what an entirely shit series of events!! First things first, getting this infection resolved is priority number one, if this ends up being a wasted cycle then it will just have to be, honestly I worked on critical care in the past and saw the most horrendous infections that originated form a tooth abscess. You definitely need to take the antibiotics. You don't need to worry too much about the gynae microbiome, I took coamoxiclav as my first antibiotic which has amoxicillin in it, so we know the body can take antibiotics and then recolonize. I would go with a daily vaginal probiotic while on them just to make sure. I wouldn't worry too much about pH at this point, you are passed the ovulation stage now aren't you? There are some anecdotal stories of people getting an infection and that's the cycle that worked, they feel that their immune system was distracted, so who knows this could be a positive. The immune drugs will make you more susceptible to picking infections up and make it harder for your body to fight it, but this cold I just had was the first infection I've had in years and I've done these immune drugs since last year and I feel like it resolved in a normal amount of time. Sorry about the work situation being the icing on the shit cake!! I think for now we can feel positive that you're on the right treatment to get this infection resolved with a plan of escalation if you need it.

I’m so sorry to hear all this @clhiu definitely sounds like treating the infection is top priority here. Sounds like you’re well planned for looking after microbiome while on antibiotics. Really hope this is all sorted soon ❤️

Thank you both ❤️

@Gardenlady543 thank you so much for always finding the time to share medical advice and wanting to help us all so much, I’m really grateful. Interesting point about the immune system being distracted whilst fighting an infection, I hadn’t thought about it in those terms so you never know.
Most importantly thank you for making me chuckle, I really need that ‘cherry on top of the shitcake’ I’m going to start using that 😂

Oh @clhiu that sounds so so stressful! I completely agree with @Gardenlady543 on getting the infection sorted now. But yes how frustrating with the timings… there’s always something though. If it wasn’t this it could be something. Fingers crossed for you. Are you still going to wait til next week to test?
have you had any more twinges or pulls?

I had a very annoying morning this morning. I have been using the clear blue fertility monitor (cbfm) this month cos we thought we’d try natural (who are we kidding) whilst we prep for EC in September. And the last 3 days it’s been saying high. I put it in this morning and it said pregnant. Now I know with my whole entire heart that it’s just basically impossible (I am on day 11 on this last cycle and my period was very very heavy). But it was just pretty triggering to see it there as bold as anything. So yeah I’ve been googling why it would say that and the only thing I could find is perhaps there was too little urine on the stick. So yeah. Frustratingly it does mean that I can’t test anymore on the monitor because it ends the cycle when it says pregnant.

i completely agree with what @clhiu said about you @Gardenlady543 . I really appreciate all your advice and knowledge! You must be a very lovely person x

@Sar1010 what the hell! And I take it you out in an ovulation stick and not a pregnancy test l. I used the CB fertility monitor and it would often say high for over a week before a LH surge but I never got pregnant. Some times it didn't pick up the surge so I used cheap Lh sticks as well.

@Sar1010 LH and HCG are quite similar hormones chemical structure wise apparently so the sticks can confuse the two. I’ve only heard it in context of people thinking they have late surge but actually started testing too late or just missed the surge and then pick up the HCG rising when preg test positive as an LH surge on ovulation kit. But it must also work the other way I guess. That must have been so hard. Sending hugs ❤️

Oh no @Sar1010, I'm so sorry the CB test played such a nasty trick on you, I had no idea that could even happen, but it's unacceptable they would build them like that. I suppose seeing what @Enfys23 said about similarities between the two hormones it's technically possible.
For what it's worth, I used the CB ones a couple of times then decided they were a waste of money and I only use the cheap ones paired with the cycle tracking app Natural Cycles these days you can bulk buy those tests on Amazon and you can take several a day so you make sure you don't miss the surge. It's worked well for me, but I do have 6 years worth of cycle data in my app as that's when I started using it, originally as I wanted to switch to natural contraception.
I'm really sorry this has now also thrown your cycle tracking out of whack now. Could you please remind me if your factor is known and what it may be since you say it feels pointless to you to try naturally? Sorry if you explained previously and I missed.
Still waiting for next week to test yep, absolutely it's only 4dpo today and of course I cannot help to be already symptoms spotting, but testing any sooner than next Wednesday could show up lingering trigger and would be too early. even if I test next Wednesday, that would be 6 days before my period so I could still get a false negative even on a FRER, I'm gonna try holding off till Thursday.

Having said that, does anybody know if Superdrug completely stopped stocking FRER products or where else to get one in person? I could only get one on Amazon.

@Enfys23 what's the latest update with you? I hope you're hanging in there waiting for news x

Hope you’re feeling okay as can be @clhiu
Thanks for thinking of us. We did not get good news at our day 3 update sadly. I’m finding it all quite hard. While I know our chances are low with few eggs we’ve previously always had 100% fertilisation and progression to good quality blasts so while wouldn’t ever assume will be the same, it’s really devastating that it’s been such a poor cycle in comparison. Especially as this is the one I tried the DHEA for 3 months and upped ubiquinol etc. Feels like wasted time now. All 3 embryos were still “going”, and one looked good but two were still at 4 cells which is poor. So just hoping so much we have an embryo to transfer tomorrow. It seems so cruel might have finally got my lining to a decent level to possibly not have an embryo for transfer. Really trying to be positive and remember it only takes one but really hard. Also hate myself for having thoughts like if we do get a blast and this does work this time, and nothing to freeze, then that might be it for any hopes of having more than one child as my ovarian reserve is already so poor which would be sad, which I kick myself for as then feel I’m jinxing things and also that I’m being ridiculous as not even close to any hope at the one child yet.

I'm sorry you haven't got the update you had hoped for @Enfys23 sometimes in this situation they recommend a day 3 transfer did they discuss this at all? It sounds like you're day 4 now, I hope there is something to transfer, I think if the embryos are still going but developing slower I would consider a double transfer at this point, I know I said the opposite before, but especially if the embryos end up being ok for transfer but not freezable, I would transfer up to two in this type of situation.

@clhiu I think probably 9-10dpo is going to be the earliest test time, I always bough frer from Amazon.

@Enfys23 I am so sorry the updates have been so disappointing, especially since you doing things differently including the DHEA, I can see how you'd feel disheartened after all that. Still routing for those other 2 embryo to catch-up, to @Gardenlady543's point would they consider a double transfer with the two best ones? I think your clinic should really offer you that at this stage.

@Gardenlady543 @clhiu
thank you. The embryology team did call me to discuss yesterday afternoon and they would consider a double transfer for me but still made it clear they think unlikely the embryos will make it to a point they’d advise this. However I can only hope. And just really really hope the one makes it to a good quality blast.
They didn’t discuss a day 3 with me@Gardenlady543 but I remember from our cycle with one egg that thankfully made it that they take the view it’s best to know if it can make a blast and would rather see what they can transfer on day 5. They don’t want to give me false hope I guess. But yes pretty close to 100% won’t have anything to freeze this cycle so at least if one does catch up it’ll be given a chance given they’ll allow me a double transfer.

@clhiu also only able to get FRER on Amazon recently x

How are you @CailinInUK hope things progressing well ? X

@Enfys23 I’m really sorry that you have had bad news. It’s so hard. I can certainly empathise. I’m keeping my fingers crossed for you. A lot can happen between now and transfer day and at your age you only need one good blastocyst.

@clhiu Sorry you’re having a difficult time. If I were you, I would continue with vaginal probiotics ie canesflor. You can take cyclogest rectally and it’s faster absorption. That’s what I’m doing.

@Gardenlady543 It’s actually not that warm in Plymouth only about 19-20 degrees in my house but my hands get very very warm. In fact, with progesterone I’m get fast heartbeat which I have had before with higher progesterone levels. I keep Vagibiom in fridge now as they quickly soften up and they are hard to open.

Had a frustrating day today. My Dad is still in hospital. Doctors were supposed to call me back but didn’t. He needs a brain scan as he’s not improving so I don’t know what’s happening. He’s very frail after stroke 3 years ago due to the hospital. Plus I had my results through which showed gardnerella infection. I was waiting and waiting for consultant to get back to me from clinic. The doctor from Home Diagnostics said to get treatment but a consultant at my clinic said as one test showed normal in spite of my symptoms to delay treatment and to do pregnancy test early. I also asked about canesbalance as an alternative and got different information. Apparently, it’s safe in pregnancy but must be avoided in conception as it affects sperm. So I could’ve started it earlier. Feel so worried about testing. I’ve only had rapid heartbeat from progesterone, sweating and twinges in womb.

@Janefx40 Hope you’re ok. How did you pluck up the courage to test? Did you have any symptoms? With my son, I was on lots of oestrogen so I had more symptoms earlier such as food aversions, nausea, fatigue, twinges and rapid heartbeat. This time I have only had twinges in womb day 2, 3, 4 and 5 and the odd day recently. I also get out of breath a bit/ raised heartbeat when anxious due to higher progesterone.

@Enfys23 I think a double transfer is good because refreezing can be risky.

Thanks for all the love everyone. It was a triggering day with the pregnant symbol on the monitor. I’m still confused how it could have happened… it was an ovulation stick so perhaps it was just a fault in the monitor. Frustrating and weird but I’m moving on.

@clhiu we are still doing lots of tests to see why it’s taking us so long. But so far we’ve had 2 CP in 3 years plus 2 failed FETS (both were euploid from PGT/A testing). I’m 33 and my husband is 37- low morphology of 1%, they have spotted adenomyosis (endo) and also suspected pelvic endo too. Still no clear answers though. My Ema, era and Alice came back normal accept low (in fact zero) Lactobacillus. in an early blood test I was found to have MTHFR- though I have forgetton what this means I do know I take aspirin for it when we have transferred.

im doing a monitored cycle with Bill Smiths, he has scanned me week 1 week 3 and next week will be week 4 of this cycle. To see how the endometriosis could be affecting my womb.

im taking DHEA, folate, vit d, coq10 as we may do another egg collection in September but waiting to see how this endo search goes. But yes that all my info!

@Enfys23 sending you love and hoping things change for you tomorrow! XXXX

@clhiu hope you got your infection under control? Have you noticed symptoms of pregnancy very early in the past? May the week go by faster for you.

@2021ivfagain So sorry to hear about your Dad. My FIL is very ill. It’s hard.
I’d be testing by now if I was in your shoes but understand your worry and why you wouldn’t. I read somewhere on Insta recently that anxiety is partly due to trying to control things that are out of our control. You’ve really done all you can. The twinges sound promising. I felt the most beautiful twinges in the early days following transfer for my three pregnancies, I knew the embryos had implanted. But I know every cycle/person is different.

@Enfys23 sorry about your Day 3 update, I was thinking of you yesterday. Things can turn around so keep the faith for a while if you can. One good blastocyst could equal a baby. I know it’s hard and the ‘you only need one’ can grate but it is true.
I just counted how many blasts it took to get my DD - 25! OMG :( . I have the added complication of the genetic condition testing that eliminates many viable embryos ( we were unlucky with the 50:50 odds), plus a high percentage of aneuploids and poor cycle management by clinic in early four cycles. Two children out of one cycle is fairly uncommon so no need to beat yourself up about losing the possibility of frosties, though I understand where you’re coming from if you have concerns about egg reserve. In hindsight I should have tried to batch more at age 38 when I found out that only two out of seven euploids were transferable. My SIL who went through the same process, due to the genetic condition in the family, had two transferable embryos out of three blasts from one cycle. Her first transfer worked and she discarded her second embryo as partner didn’t want another child. I couldn’t do that. Her AFC and number of embryos was worse than mine, smoker, poor diet and exercise etc but she was younger by four years and done and dusted in one cycle compared to my eight for DD. Sorry, I’m rambling. I’ll be thinking of you tomorrow. Let us know how you get on if you’re up to it.

Thanks for asking after me @Enfys23 , despite what you’re going through. I had my Day 11 scan this morning. I have nine follicles between 10 and 19mm, mostly 14-19mm. Clinic recommended triggering tomorrow for EC on Monday. Ideally I’d prefer to have EC on Tuesday but they only do them on Mon/Weds/Fri nowadays, another cost cutting measure. I forgot to ask for my estradiol when they called this afternoon and of course you can’t get through to the nurse directly these days, it’s all through reception, so couldn’t find out. Anyway, they recommended another stim inj at lunch tomorrow and trigger tomorrow night at 23:15. I think I’ll maybe get six/seven mature eggs based on the follicle sizes. One euploid (but affected) in March and none in May cycle. What will it be for July?? If nothing comes of this one or the next two stim cycles, I probably should call it a day. It’ll be so hard to give up though.

Pardon the long message, got carried away. I hope everyone else is doing ok and @Gardenlady543 , it’s really kind of you to stick around even though you’re on the other side.

@Sar1010 just read your messages, the pregnant symbol must’ve been so triggering. So sorry. Sorry to read of your tough journey too. ‘MTHFR’ is typically a gene mutation regarding how folic acid/folate is absorbed. If you’re taking a reasonable amount of folate (instead of folate) then that’s probably the main thing to do.
What was the composition of your endometrium if the lactobacillus was 0%?
I hope your appointments with Bill will be useful. What did he say after week 3 scan? I need to book my consult with him.

*above should say (instead of folic acid).

@2021ivfagain I'm sorry to hear about your Dad. With testing I usually felt that I didn't want to test/break the illusion that I could be pregnant. But then one day I would suddenly get the courage /urge and would just go for it. The thought of testing was always torture but usually worse than the reality. I always tested by 9 dp5dt as that is the equivalent of 14dpo. Although of course if you wait longer you should have a definitive answer but I have no barometer for that. I know what tests should ideally look like at 9dpt but not at 14dpt. Ultimately it makes no difference of course so if you can hold out that is great.

Love to everyone else.

@Sar1010 sorry about your false reading. That must have been very upsetting.

@CailinInUK good luck with the EC. I hope this is a good one for you x

@Enfys23 I'm hoping for you and thinking of you today, let us know what happens.

@2021ivfagain sorry to hear that you have stress with your dads being unwell :( when are you going to test?

@Sar1010 this is really frustrating it sounds like you will need to use the LH sticks instead, I get the 5 pack from poundland.

@CailinInUK great news on the follicles, exciting that you're close to collection day!

@Gardenlady543 @Janefx40 @CailinInUK

Thanks. I usually wait until test day as I hate testing. When I was pregnant with my son, I had so many symptoms. Even though we were in lockdown, it was a less stressful time.

A doctor at CRGH told me to test to determine if my slight infection needs treatment. I tested today and it’s positive but I don’t have as many symptoms as last time. All I have had is twinges. But last time I was on lots of hrt.

@Janefx40 It’s 11dpt. I’m praying my results stays the same. I used two tests: one pink dye from Asda and one blue dye from Tesco. They both showed up before the required time.

@Enfys23 Keeping my fingers crossed for you.

Omg @2021ivfagain this is amazing news!

@Gardenlady543 @Janefx40 thank you!
@2021ivfagain thats good news!