ERA EMMA ALICE testing thread 8

[Gardenlady543]

@2021ivfagain @kerrym87 @Janefx40 @seven201 @thislittlebird @Spin101 @Enfys23
@CailinInUK @BewilderedBee @Loz2467 @Lori2022 @VenusStarr @clhiu @Faithhopelove83 @APSR @ChickenT2b @Mina209 @IVF22 @Lizzybeth1988 @AM08 @Fluffykins33 @Sar1010

Continued in from thread 7 :)

@Gardenlady543 I have definitely had implantation twinges but really worried by my bad BV symptoms. Canesbalance works well for me and it’s safe in pregnancy. It just says avoid with conception as I think it is bad for sperm, but surely I could start taking canesbalance soon?

@2021ivfagain you should be able to take it after implantation then if it's safe in pregnancy.

@Gardenlady543 I have ordered tests from Home Diagnostics as they do quick tests for BV, but they don’t pick up on atopobium vaginae which I often get. Do you know any quick tests which will pick up atopobium vaginae? Most only test for gardnerella vaginalis.

Hi ladies, I’m just stopping by to say hello, I’m still here but haven’t caught up in a while. I have my endo excision and bowel resection booked for august 26th so we’re not trying for the time being. Following MRI, turns out my left tube doesn’t looked blocked after all but most likely scar tissue. Still trying to figure out what to do about LIT and neupogen.
Did book a cheap return flight to Athens for October since I can buy the neupogen there for a third of the price 🙈 so we’ll see.

I hope you are all well.

@Gardenlady543 how many weeks are you now? I hope everything is going good.

@2021ivfagain you're the expert on vaginal swab tests, I haven't done one before. The only test I know is the menstrual fluid test with fertilysis. They use a vaginal swab and menstrual fluid but next to atopobium vaginae there is only one result so maybe they only ran it on the menstrual fluid.

Hi @ChickenT2b that's great you've got surgery booked in, what happening to your bowel? Can you have a session of lit while you're in Athens, I think it's cheaper there. I'm 14 weeks now, I know how triggering this stuff is but if you wanted to see I got a cute video of a tantrum imgur.com/a/VOwlFNU and a big stretch imgur.com/a/cX7AFpe was nice to end the week with these videos after the nhs scan.

Good luck with your surgery @ChickenT2b

I’ve just come out of my EC. 4 eggs. The anaesthetic assistant stank of aftershave which freaked me out. I hope those eggs are okay. Nerve wracking wait to tomorrow’s call now.

@Gardenlady543 My clinic have said they will not look at results from
Invivo. The problem is Home Diagnostics only tests for gardnerella not atopobium vaginae. The only thing I can do is to involve my gynaecologist, but he does not specialise in IVF. He’s on annual leave until 25th July which is my test date! My clinic will not even entertain the idea of canesbalance!

I did take vagibiom last night which did help, but went through 3 of them as they were melting in my fingers! It says you can put them in the fridge but doesn’t say how long. Have you had to do this?

@Gardenlady543 those videos are very cute! 🥰

@Enfys23 sorry the person stank of aftershave. Surely that’s not allowed. Hope you are able to get some rest today and I have everything crossed for high fertilisation rates for you x

@Enfys23 that is so annoying when they tell us not to wear perfume etc! How are you feeling post collection?

@2021ivfagain I haven't had an issue with them melting it must be hot where you are, fridge temperature should be 5c and I've kept oral probiotics in the fridge so if it says you can do that it should be ok. Can you not just do the test with invivo and treat based on the result?

Thank you @Spin101 @Gardenlady543 it’s definitely added a source of anxiety about how things will go now over next few days, as if there wasn’t enough already. I just hope they know their air pressure/filtration systems are actually good enough to circumvent these issues.
I am a bit sore @Gardenlady543 and feel a little like I’m tipsy still but am okay. Am always quite uncoordinated with poor spatial awareness anyway so DH is watching me like a hawk. Good excuse to put feet up! Loved your videos btw, so pleased for you ❤️

Seemed a bit of disagreement and controversy today about when inhixa 40mg and when progesterone (I’ll be doing lubion and Cyclogest) started some saying tonight, others tomorrow, one opinion that inhixa not until ET day. When did you ladies start yours post egg collection? I upped my pred to 20mg today. My protocol does state to start progesterone tonight so think will stick to this but be interested to hear others as I’m sure in my previous fresh transfer I started it the day after EC. Aiming for blastocyst transfer on day 5 again. However part of the debate was because I queried if I would start the high dose blood thinner tonight given I’ve just had the egg collection, feels safer to delay it a little but my protocol does say from tonight (but then I think the consultant who wrote it now said probs from ET day ok). Reading about immune protocol seems more common to start day after EC.
Sorry if a bit garbled 🤪

@Enfys23 you definitely deserve a rest. I'm pretty sure I had to start the Progesteone about 2 days after collection but then that seems really odd because with receptivity stuff they say usual timing is on day 6 of Progesteone. And I've heard people say the follicles are drained so there won't be much Progesteone coming from the corpus luteums.

I started low molecular weight heparin on CD6 in FET, a lot of people start it on transfer day, I think it's not a good idea to take it before collection because of an increased risk of bleeding, but you should be fine to start it now the procedure is done and they would use it routinely the day of surgery after an operation, so I would start that now.

@2021ivfagain thank you, how are you coping with the TWW? I had the usual stretchy egg white moucus (sorry if tmi) after the trigger alongside an LH surge (based on the strip tests) so hopefully the environment was sperm-friendly enough and taking that one Vagibiom 3 days before the timed intercourse won’t have messed things up.

@Gardenlady543 thanks for the advice on antihistamines, you’re right by the way, I meant to say 25mg. I started the Pred this morning (2 days after trigger as prescribed) 25mg straight away, do you think there’s a chance it may interfere with ovulation at all? I see for EC cycle it’s recommended to start or go full dose after collection, I hope it doesn’t mess things up, unless my consultant was adamant I’d have already ovulated by that point. Does it give you any stomach problems or just sleep? Do you take omeprazole or other gastro-protectors with it?
Those videos are absolutely amazing 😍😍😍

@Enfys23 well done on the egg collection and glad you’re feeling ok, praying for all to fertilise, were you doing ICSI or just straight IVF?
I’m sorry about the stress with the aftershave (what the f??) and confusion around the meds protocol, all things that should be easily avoided, but there you go.
Are you doing a fresh transfer then testing and freezing any blasts left?

@ChickenT2b good luck with the surgery, I hope it comes round quickly for you and you can move forward x

I have rather tender ovaries since this afternoon and seems to be getting worse. Is it possible I’ve developed OHSS just on Letrozole and trigger?? I didn’t for my EC cycle almost 8 months ago on really heavy stims, growth hormone and double dose of trigger (10000mg instead of 5000mg this time), 16 eggs collected. I’ve no other symptoms like nausea or vomiting, but the pain is unusual and concerning. Unless it’s not my ovaries, but it’s lower abdomen outer ends. If anybody on here has experience of OHSS please let me know what you think. Thanks x

@clhiu I’m catching up, so sorry you had that experience at your scan, it’s unforgivable and downright hurtful especially as I wonder if it was done intentionally/knowlingly.
Fingers crossed for this cycle for you. I doubt the vagibiom affected anything but we can’t help worry about everything given what we’ve been through.

Speaking of EWCM, I’m on Day 7 of stims and just had my first blob today (sorry TMI back at you!). Of course I’m freaking out that my response is low/slow, we’ll see tomorrow at my first scan.

@2021ivfagain sounds positive that you’ve had similar implantation twinges as before. I don’t know how you can resist testing! Sorry you have worries about your biom. If it was atopium vaginae, what would the treatment be? More Antibiotics? it’s fine to store the vagibiom in the fridge or somewhere relatively cool in the house. I’m on Day 7 of stims so EC is likely some day next week.

@Enfys23 good you’ve had your EC done. So frustrating about the anaesthetic assistant after all we put ourselves through. Will you feed back on that? I’m hoping you get good news tomorrow.

@Gardenlady543 so so happy things are progressing well for you. Are you weaning off the steroids now? I can’t watch the vids as too triggering for me :(

@ChickenT2b best wishes for your surgery in August. Get yourself to Greece in Oct ;)

@Spin101 hope you’re doing ok. x

@clhiu I did a natural modified cycle so needed to ovulate and started on prednisolone on CD6 and it didn't effect ovulation in me. I have moon face pretty bad now, I think it's helped with a lot of symptoms, it's a treatment in severe morning sickness, a lot of people on steroids don't have typical pregnancy symptoms. I didn't vomit at all, just had indigestion and burped a lot. I had OHSS once and it was really random as I always got the same result at collection so there was no reason for me to have it that time, the symptoms tend to be fluid accumulation, so bloating, most is self limiting as long as people don't get pregnant and severe OHSS there is fluid around the lungs, that is pretty rare though. I think you'd be really unlucky if you got it from the type of cycle you're on, I could just be the pain of the follicles being big, I had a lot of pain as they grew on letrozole.

@CailinInUK I understand, I wouldn't have been able to watch them either :( I just blocked everything out as that's how I coped. I have gone down by 5mg every 3 days starting with my dose of 25mg and I took my last dose of 5mg yesterday, now I need to do day off, day on x 3, so I have 3 more doses but none today. I'm going for intralipids again today. My cold seems to have cleared up now luckily, hopefully I don't pick anything else up. Good luck for your scan tomorrow :)

@CailinInUK thank you so much, we're basically in the mindset that it may take a few natural cycles to catch the good egg and possibly a few more MCs so we're having a very clinical approach, but it's all we can afford to basically use my body as the PGT-A tester best way I can describe it...of course it will largely depend on if, how and when any further losses happen, but it's really our only option at the moment.
I hope your scan provides some reassurance that your response is better than you're fearing based on your EWCM (thanks for teaching me a new acronym btw, does the E stand for Egg?), let us know how it went, fingers crossed for you.

@Gardenlady543 thanks for explaining about OHSS, the pain has completely subsided now so I think it might have either been something else like enlarged follicles paired with a lot of intercourse, I've also be making sure to drink plenty of water since I started worrying about that as they say it helps. First day on Prednisone went well, early doors, but I slept just as well as any other night for now. I started getting indigestion pains in the afternoon, despite the Omeprazole, however I had them the day before too so wonder if unrelated to the Pred, it subsided after a few Gaviscons and a very light dinner.
No rest for the wicked though it seems! Since last night I developed tooth ache and woke up first thing this morning with it throbbing and the pain going right down into my jaw so pretty sure from past experience that it's an abscess. Have an emergency dentist appointment booked for this afternoon and waiting for the clinic to advise whether it's safe at this stage to have a dental X-Ray, Dental anaesthetic, dental work and potentially antibiotics and which one. I know radiations aren't recommended in pregnancy and concerned about taking any antibiotics due to my low lactobacillus, but if it's an infection it has to be treated, cannot do anything about it.

Oh @clhiu I hope it's not an abscess! Yes you're right you will need antibiotics, I have seen some terrible consequences of untreated abscesses. The consequence of difficult to access dental services :( glad things have eased. I have slept fine on prednisolone but I mean this is with nytol.

Just had intralipids, got another one in 3 weeks then more immune blood tests 2 weeks later.

@Gardenlady543 thank you. I went for it and started everything. Are you still taking LMWH or will you stop that with the pred? Glad the intralipids are on board.

@2021ivfagain hope you’re okay; remember you are doing everything you possibly can.

@CailinInUK thank you. I hope today’s scan goes well. I was panicking I had no EWCM until late but then realised the viagra tablets were acting as an absorber 😂
I did raise it at the time. They said someone else had commented as if we were just noticing a strong scent rather than any more significance to it so I explained why it would be concerning for us as patients and the potential impact etc. I will probably raise it again.

@clhiu I really hope it’s not an abscess. I can imagine if your ovary is swollen with mature follicles and you’re having timed intercourse too then they’ll be quite uncomfortable. Even with my 3 big and 2 medium follicles on left ovary I felt lots of pressure and sharp twinges and couldn’t imagine having to have sex with that! 😂
We went straight for IVF as we’ve historically had excellent sperm results and fertilisation. We’ve been told it’s not a good idea to do any PGTA due to our small numbers and age so if we have extras we will just freeze these as blasts.
I usually have a very sensitive tummy and will get discomfort with any ibuprofen etc but I seem to have been okay with pred for my last transfer and so far this time. I’ve not really found it’s overly affected my sleep but I do make sure to take it early with a good breakfast to line my tummy. I more find I wake for a wee with the progesterone and that tends to disturb my sleep as I don’t usually wake for a wee normally, but I was like that with progesterone in cycles I’ve not had the pred.

Only just had a call very late before midday with fertilisation report. I was in a right panic as they’ve normally phoned early doors. But it’s good news. 3 of the 4 eggs were mature and all 3 fertilised normally. Makes sense given probably only the 3 follicles were good size for the retrieval. We’ll get next update on Thursday (day 3). I really hope the DHEA has at least helped with quality and euploidy rates. So far our egg collection and fertilisation report are identical to last cycle.
I also got my medichecks bloods from trigger day with progesterone nice and low <1nmol/l and estradiol 1586pmol/l which seems decent for 3 mature follicles.

Have people done both pre and post transfer Acupuncture? I’m not sure I’ve found the post transfer session that helpful so thinking I might just do the pre one.

@Enfys23 that's great news about the fertilisation, I did pre and post, my acupuncturist followed the German protocol and said there is evidence that it improves outcomes. So LMWH is basically the only thing I'm on now, I'm almost off prednisolone and have a terrible breakout on my face which could be withdrawal :( I am due to come off cyclogest this week. Dr Gorgy said for me to take LMWH until week 36.

@Gardenlady543 thank you. I can empathise about the breakout. I had such clear skin before all this and between the DHEA (which I have now stopped as advised post trigger) and pred I’m a mess. I hope it clears up for you as things stabilise. Are you just on Cyclogest now as progesterone now? Do you wean them or just stop?
That’s good to know - thank you - I think with my raised cardiolipin antibodies on two tests they will likely want me to continue for some time if things work out but no one has quite pinned down a timescale yet.
I might just do it again. I just don’t feel that good from it (which is weird as usually feel great from acupuncture) the two times I’ve done the post transfer one and obvs hasn’t worked out so far so just feel like I’m wasting money. But I’ll probs do it as otherwise might have regrets.
As I’m having to take lead in blood monitoring myself I think I’ll arrange another progesterone blood test for around Transfer day to make sure levels ok.

@Enfys23 that's a good idea, there are studies that show if your Progesteone levels are low pre transfer and the dose is increased as a result the outcomes are the same as people who had a good level to begin with. So my clinic wanted me to stop everything at 12 weeks- LMWH, prednisolone, all Progesteone. Dr Gorgy told me to stop prednisolone as planned as in wean from 12 week, he said to stop PIO at 12 weeks and cyclogest at 14 weeks, then I've seen in the immune group people weaning off and checking levels and some needing progesterone throughout, I'm not sure if that's needed but I have decided to do a sort of wean. So I went from 1 pio a day and 2 cyclogest to 2 cyclogest from 12 weeks and if I do my last 2 on 14 weeks (as per transfer date) then I have 4 cyclogest left so I'll do those 4 daily and then stop. I have seen a lot of people stop progesterone by week 10 so hopefully this should be safe.

@clhiu thanks. Yes E is for egg! Egg white cervical mucus! I do hope you strike it lucky with a good egg sooner rather than later. Ouch re your tooth :(

@Enfys23 that was a good maturity and fertilisation rate. Fingers crossed for a couple of blasts. Will you get a Day 3 update?

My scan went fine. I have seven follicles of a decent size for Day 8 with a few small ones too. My E2 was 1659, which is decent for Day 8 for my age. I predict I’ll be triggering on Saturday, based on my own extrapolation. Next scan is Friday.

@Gardenlady543 sounds a good and thorough plan 👍🏼

@CailinInUK that sounds very promising 🤞🏼. Hope you’re feeling okay.
Yes we should get a day 3 update.

That's good news @CailinInUK I hope the next few days go quickly for you!

Oh dear! What a week has been for me so far...if I have fallen pregnant this cycle and it doesn't end in another miscarriage it will truly be a miracle at this point...

The dentist yesterday confirmed an abscess in my tooth, he showed me on the x-ray that whoever root-treated it many moons ago (I don't even remember which dentist or when, but it will have been minimum 10 years ago and possibly as many as 20!) didn't properly fill in all of the root and that's why over time it got infected again and lead to the abscess. He felt positive that he could just drill through the previous filling down to the very bottom of the root, clean with anti-septic and put a filling in today. He gave me Amoxicillin (which my clinic said is fine to take), but told me it was optional, that my anti-bodies should be fighting the infection by themselves so I decided not to take it yesterday and also felt encouraged that after yesterday's appointment and clean-up I was able to just chew on it again last night without feeling any pain. Anyway I woke up at 3.30am last night in agony, wouldn't subside until I took paracetamol and when I went back to the dentist and he opened it back up he told me the the abscess was so aggressive he couldn't just refill it, that I must take antibiotics for a week and providing they do the job, he should be able to fill it back up for it to resolve next week. The clinic advised that if it is an infection, I am to stop the Pred until resolved. I'm now wondering if the infection was in the first place triggered by the immuno-suppression with intralipids and a couple of days on steroids, or could just be appalling timing. Thing is, I have no idea what's intended by 'when they infection has resolved' as dental abscesses and infections never go away completely and just sit there until the tooth is removed, plus he was able to see another tooth next to it on the X-Ray in a similar situation where the filling fell short of the full root and that infection so far hasn't flared up, but will it if suppress my immune system again? This is really a headf*ck now as immune treatment was literally the only thing I was doing different this time and I may not be able to have it at all anymore unless I'm prepared to loose multiple teeth. Anyway, I'll find out more next week.
I also wonder if the reason why my NCK are so elevated in the first place is precisely because of these dental issues.

As I'm concerned about my microbiome taking antibiotics (if I'm not pregnant when I test next week and the infection still looks nasty at my next appointment, he will give me another stronger antibiotic on top that's not pregnancy friendly, but can fight the anaerobic bacteria too as the penicillin does not) I've decided to double up on the oral probiotics form today, taking one Inessa on top of the daily Optibac I'm already taking and thinking of using up the rest of my box of Vagibiom, maybe on alternate days since ovulation has past so until my next cycle I won't have to worry about making the environment to acidic to sperm. Does it sounds like a good plan @Gardenlady543 to protect my microbiome as much as possible? Since I have to take 2 Cyclogests vaginally every night, I'm gonna have to do the Vagibiom in the morning, do you reckon it'll still be effective even with all the Cyclogest up there and even if I'm not going to belying down afterwards?

On another jolly note, we were given confirmation today that after 5 days of technical issues and downtime of critical systems, the company I work for fell victim of a serious cyber attack, which is still unresolved and is causing us to haemorrhage sales, which probably means I can say goodbye to my bonus this year I was absolutely counting on to pay off some of the IVF debts and continue paying for the treatment I'm having at CRP and now all of that is in serious jeopardy too 😥

Sorry for the rant, but FML!!!