ERA/ALICE/EMMA testing thread 2

[seven201]

Link to the old thread
https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/infertility/4187520-era-testing-after-multiple-implantation-failures-anyone-had-it-done?msgid=110302437&utmsource=mentions&utmmmedium=email&utmcampaign=2020-10-19&utmmterm=You+have+been+mentioned+in+a+post&rei=438192#110302437

Welcome to the new thread. Anyone welcome.

I hope everyone's ok.

I have been thinking about what to do next with treatment, as me and the specialist had spoken about doing a transfer with one of my euploid embryos but with a stims cycle.

We spoke about trying a FET first, but I need to know if this is even an option so called my finance package and I just assumed it would be fine because essentially everyone's a winner I pay for the fresh cycle, a transfer happens and if it works I'm out of the contract, so great for them. Plus I don't have to go through this hell any more and I know there are banked embryos for the future.

The call handler didn't think it would be possible though, but will check with their manager. I'm quite upset about it, I just assumed it would be fine, my contract says you can't have IVF outside the programs if it could adversely affect the probability of becoming pregnant. I assume people are allowed to do cycles on stims but not do the egg collection, which wouldn't be an option for me because spontaneous ovulation of my 34 follicles would be horrendous.

There's people on these boards where they get a great lining on stims and the transfer works. I just want to know the option is there :(

@Gardenlady543 that's really hard, I'm sorry that your finance package is so restrictive. Are you waiting for them to come back to you, I hope they would take each case on the individual circumstances and with what the doctors feel would work best for you.
I wonder if doing a cycle with clomid or letrozole would work as an alternative? Big hugs x

I feel like this week has dragged, on the final countdown to af arriving, hopdflyu Wednesday or Thursday next week. X

Thanks @VenusStarr he called back and said he spoke to his manager and the options are basically no fresh transfers outside of the program or withdraw from the program. He said they could discuss it with my specialist and see what they think, which I said to hold off on because I want the results of my biopsies and to have a consultation to discuss the plan together first.

I suspect the decision has been made for me, I need to have a FET first and maybe then allow my specialist to discuss it with them if it doesn't work in the hope some kind of mutual decision can be made.

I just don't want to end up getting success while using up all my embryos and looking back in the future and having none left with much lower chances of getting good rates. Plus any option that might improve my chances would be good, I ended up crying down the phone saying I'm not sure how many more unsuccessful transfers I can take.

I started very lightly spotting today, I was going to carry on progesterone until Monday but I'm only using utrogestan 200mg twice a day to hold off a period (I don't want to use up all my supply) and it's probably not enough. So I think I'm feeling particularly hormonal and just generally run down and tearful. I filled in the forms for the counsellor for next week, so I've had to write down how awful I feel which only made me more upset.

I hope you're ok @VenusStarr it's a strange feeling suddenly hoping for AF to progress on.

@seven201 how are you? When are you having your appointment with Mr Lower?

@Gardenlady543 oh that is frustrating! I think you're right. Get the results then make a plan with your doctor. No point arguing with access fertility (I assume it's them - I'm with them too) yet as you don't know what you want yet. A problem for later! At least it's Friday. Hopefully stopping the progesterone combined with the weekend will lift spirits a little.

@VenusStarr that's great it's starting this week. Hang on in there.

My coil is being removed on 4th, then follow up scan 18th. Had a panic today when I thought the coil was coming out on 18th and was worried that might not leave enough time for FET before Xmas shut down but that was a false alarm! Hoping to get pgta results next week so I can book the FET in properly. I did cave and ask the secretary for my operation notes. I didn't understand most of it but it sounded fine to me. I know he drained the cyst and divided the adhesion but I can't understand what he did to my c-section niche exactly, but I'll just ask him when I see him as I know he did something to it, so it will be improved somehow.

I'm sorry you're feeling emotional @Gardenlady543 it's really difficult and filling in those pre counselling questionnaires is horribly triggering as you feel even worse ticking the all the times boxes, I usually end up filling those in with tears streaming down my face 😢
I've been feeling a bit more distant from it all and wondering how much longer we can keep on doing this, I don't want to stop but I don't know how much more I can keep going.
I hope you can have a peaceful evening and weekend, doing things that give you a lift and make you feel a bit lighter ❤️

Not long until your results @seven201 🤞 it's a strange feeling that time is passing quickly but then not quick at all, very odd. Not too much longer with the coil now. I'm glad your operation notes all seem OK.

You've hit the nail on the head @VenusStarr I was in a right state crying as I filled them in trying to summarize what's been happening. I've had an unproductive day after as I found it hard to read anything with my eyes all sore and blurry.

Completely agree with the not wanting to stop but also not knowing how much more to endure. I suspect I will keep going, I just found the calls today really hard. To feel no control over what steps I'm allowed to take is hard.

@seven201 yeah I expect I'm going to need to have a proper chat with my specialist and just agree on what to do. I was going to keep going with the progesterone but don't know if I should just stop it and move on to the next stage. Hopefully it's been long enough to get results, act on them and for me to start the cycle in November.

Well done for getting the notes, it sounds like you could do with hearing it from him, operation notes are always brief. Sounds like it's all moving forward, I hope things are timed well so you can cycle at the same time as me and get in the transfer before Xmas, there is plenty of time still. And I hope you get some good Pgt a results.

Just had a phonecall from my clinic. We had 4 embryos biopsied 2 weeks ago, 1 didn’t survive the thaw, 2 are good/eupaloid, 1 is bad/aneuploid. Mr Lower said at my age it would be 50% ish so it's quite good. Obviously would have loved all 4 to be good but 2 is still good I think. Hoping to now get on the list for a FET!

Fantastic news that you have 2 good/eupaloid embryos 🥰 @seven201 hope you can start prepefor your FET :)

I'm 12dpo, so just waiting for af 👀 👀

Thanks @VenusStarr. Feels good to have something else ticked off the list.

Did you try naturally this month? Just wondering what kind of eyes 👀 we're talking about here .

That's great @seven201 with 3 biopsied, 2 being euploid is great news!

@seven201 logged on hoping u had ur results
So glad 2 are normal. Now with lower magic touch and normal embryo we got to keep everything crossed for u!!!! I
@VenusStarr good luck for ur fet
@Gardenlady543 hope ur feeling ok on this crappy ride and hope the psychologist is able to help . Did u see a counsellor in end? Hopefully getting into another FeT with some reassuring microbiome use will make you feel better and hope it’s ur time soon. Glad to hear u got biopsy and Emma done on same biopsy.

@seven201 lower “ablated” my niche to make it less deep and vascular. Wonder if he did same to urs. Think it’s postive there was a adhesion and it’s been removed

We didn't try @seven201 but turns out we did dtd about 3 days before ovulation but on our track record I'm not hopeful! Hopefully af will be here by Thursday at the latest 🤞

Thank you @Cream123 hope you are doing well.

How are you @Gardenlady543?

@Cream123 I'm booked in with the psychologist to start the counselling on Friday. Really needing it right now, just feeling so hopeless at the moment. I hope you're doing ok 

Oh you never know then @VenusStarr I am only going to aim to have sex once this cycle as I don't want to mess up my microflora.

I've just had some pink spotting, so I think I'll be starting soon. Would've been a bloody miracle!

I hope your appointment with the psychologist helps this week @Gardenlady543 ❤️

Thank you everyone 

How many weeks are you now @Cream123 ?
@VenusStarr ooh at the spotting. Hope AF arrives soon so you can get properly started.
@Gardenlady543 it's good you've not long to wait until your first therapy appt.

Hello everyone. Sorry to jump on but I was hoping to ask a couple of questions of those more experienced with these tests.

I have been reading this thread on and off and wish you all well. @Gardenlady543 for what it's worth, I found counselling really helpful. I've had therapy before but for some reason I was a bit resistant to this but it helped clarify things in my head.

@VenusStarr best of luck for this next round.

@seven201 congrats on your 2 euploids.

I'll be doing a natural cycle ERA from my next period which is about 10 days. Has anyone done one? Will I need to go in for a Day 1-3 scan? Am trying to make weekend plans in advance and factoring it in.

I'm also doing Emma, Alice and NK cells. I was considering using Canesflor in advance (just to start prepping for transfer in a couple of months) but would this skew my results? Would it be better to let them test me in my "natural" state or get going on potential treatments now?

Hi @Janefx40 and thanks I've only seen the clinic's counsellor twice so I'm hoping more regular sessions with a psychologist will be helpful.

I think all of us did the ERA EMMA ALICE in a medicated mock FET. I did have the NK biopsy in a natural cycle though, the doctor checked the lining thickness with US before he took the sample.

Will you be having your transfers in an unmedicated FET in the future? As you'll need to replicate what you're doing for the ERA.

Have you had any transfers yet?

Don't take the vaginal probiotics until you have had the biopsy, it will mess up the results. You can always start them after the biopsy has been taken if you like, you generally need to take one daily for 10 days and the results will take longer than that, so you have more than enough time.

@Gardenlady543 thank you for the response and the advice. I'll keep away from the canesflor for now.

Yes I will do Natural cycle FET hence the natural cycle ERA. I've had a few transfers before. Fresh (chemical), fresh (successful), FET (miscarriage at 9 weeks), fresh (BFN). My consultant thinks it unlikely that I need the ERA but I'm 44 and we have 2 euploid embryos so this is the end of the line and we want to do all we can to help this work.

I saw a psychotherapist for 2 years before we did IVF. At the time I was single and late 30s and I originally went because I wanted to figure out if I would have a baby on my own or if I was going to not become a mother. In the end I met my DP and it all changed. It was really really helpful but in a slow and subtle way. I hope it brings you clarity too xxx

@Janefx40 welcome to the thread.

My clinic do insist on a baseline scan cd2-4 for the ERA cycle too.

I do think it's a great idea to do the camde floor after the biopsy. My next FET was nearly delayed by a month as had to fit in enough canesflor.

Thanks @seven201 x

That sound sensible @Janefx40 my friends specialist has all his patients do an ERA EMMA ALICE before the first transfer. Have you had some imaging, either a saline scan, HSG or hysteroscopy if not you might want to book in a saline scan or HSG before another transfer.

@Gardenlady543 yes I had a saline scan a couple of weeks ago (ouch!!! I am dreading the ERA quartet as I'm expecting it to be similar). All looked fine apparently. I've also had 2 previous hysteroscopies but he wanted the scan as I hadn't had one since my miscarriage surgery. I absolutely hated that scan. I've done 7 treatment cycles and that was by far the worst thing I've ever done. When he told me afterwards that everything looked good, he seemed really pleased but I was just thinking "great - I needn't have bothered doing it then!" 😂

Oh no don't think like that @Janefx40 it's so important to rule out there being a structural issue, as ultrasound can miss so much. Sorry to hear it wasn't nice, great news it came back ok though, that's another big ✅ off the list.

Thanks @Gardenlady543 I know you're right really!!