ERA/ALICE/EMMA testing thread 2

[seven201]

Link to the old thread
https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/infertility/4187520-era-testing-after-multiple-implantation-failures-anyone-had-it-done?msgid=110302437&utmsource=mentions&utmmmedium=email&utmcampaign=2020-10-19&utmmterm=You+have+been+mentioned+in+a+post&rei=438192#110302437

Welcome to the new thread. Anyone welcome.

@Gardenlady543 sorry it wasn't good news. I don't know much about surrogacy in the uk. I guess there's no harm in doing some research into it while you're deciding/doing tests/potentially another transfer. I wish I had something useful to say.

I'm so sorry @Gardenlady543. Can understand the slight bit of hope being dashed. Such a big mental load to carry.

@Gardenlady543 I’m so sorry :(
It would be very unlikely to be all ur high quality embryos causing the issue something is happening at implantation stage….have them girls u spoken to given u any ideas of other things to try? Things which have passed my mind include
Lap for silent endo - only go to a super specialist for this
Gcsf wash or injections - some evidence in implantation failure
Continue to work on ur microbiome like u r doing

Totally Understand why u don’t want to chase immunes more. It’s a rabbit hole I hated being in…

Sending hugs ur way

@seven201 hope ur ok? Enjoy Xmas drink eat and be merry and I hope next year one of ur embryos sticks and stays.

@VenusStarr how r u?

Good luck for those with upcoming scans xxxx

Thanks guys

@Cream123 I hope you're ok. I agree, it is pretty much statistically impossible for my embryos to look good on every objective measure and yet I've never had a positive test before, even ignoring the 4 transfers, it makes no sense that my husband seems to have great sperm, that was capable of fertilizing all my eggs in IVF, and yet we have never conceived. I just feel like continuing to try in myself is wasting embryos :( I'm not even going to speak to my specialist about what to do next until I've figured out what the best option is.

@Gardenlady543 it just doesn't make sense does it. So sorry that it's so unknown for you.

@Cream123 how are you and bump doing?

I'm alright. I had my first clearly dark opk in years on Monday, which seems like progress to me and means for the first time in years that we don't have to keep on having sex until my period arrives 'just in case' 🎉. I've even had a little bit of cervical mucus, which again I'm take as a good sign tact the surgery did good things. Got my ivf dr appt next Friday so hoping some plans are made then.

@Gardenlady543 good idea. Have some time to work out which way you want to go. Sometimes there is no explanation. I know a lady with 6 failed pgs normals. Her sister carried for her. She then tried for no 2 herself and the first pgs normal worked???? Like how do u get ur head around that…so she carried her second baby. She did do full immunes with that one but she did them with a few of her ones which didn’t work too

@seven201 great news :) happy ovulation sex!

I’m ok thanks….i had another bleed but again all looks fine. Feeling anxious but think that’s to be expected.

Xxx

Thanks @seven201 yay on the LH stick!

@Cream123 I mean at this point my only hope in myself is to just keep doing transfer after transfer, I just don't know how long I can do that for. And do I want to be someone that does like 20 unsuccessful transfers in themself. When I do speak to my specialist I'm going to insist on unmedicated FETs.

@Gardenlady543 I think if you do go for more transfers then unmedicated sounds a really good idea. Will make it less horrible side effect wise and therefore slightly less of a big emotional thing too.

@Cream123 oh gosh. That sounds very stressful but I'm glad all is ok now. Yes, totally normal to feel anxious if you have bleeds. You're in the final stretch now at least.

I also agree re unmedicated FET. If you’ve got a regular cycle it could be a lot easier on you plus your ERA results seem to be a bit inconclusive so there is no need to go medicated from that perspective.

Did you get the results back from fertilitysis yet @Gardenlady543

What are you thinking over the next while? Would it be worth taking a break until the new year just for a bit of a rest - mentally and physically. Could you go away over/after Christmas somewhere sunny? Then another egg collection to bank some more embryos? Then revisit transfers?

It’s so relentless. We always took Christmas off to eat drink what we wanted and then went away for some winter sun to adult only places. It did tend to set us up for our next year of IVF upset.

@Cream123 Sorry to hear about another bleed. How far along are you now?

@seven201 that’s great re ovulation test.

@Janefx40 is your FET set up for end December? Only a few weeks away now.

Hope everyone else is doing ok.

@Dochas1211 yeah, I am worried by the ERA results since both were done when I had bad microflora, so the result might not be reliable. The very long course of progesterone may also indicate progesterone resistance. I have got my bleed now, so have collected the menstrual fluid sample, the test also includes two vaginal swabs which have to be done mid cycle, so I can't send it for a couple more weeks and then the result will like take another 2 weeks, maybe longer since Xmas is there.

I can't go away unfortunately since I use all my leave for IVF, I don't have any left for holidays.

Sorry to hear that about your annual leave. Could you start using sick leave going forward? My clinic have always given me an official sick note for any procedures (I.e. day of and after egg collection or transfer) and my GP has also signed me off for two weeks during treatment so I had no stress around getting to scans. It is medical treatment so legally you are entitled to sick leave for it.

Does anyone else take sick leave or are you all using your annual leave?

Good you are getting going with the sample. That’s a pity about the wait but it could be good to just use that time as a mental health break. Do something nice with your DH over Christmas even if you can’t get away.

I just use stealth mode. Never complain, never explain. A bit like the queen.

Lockdown and wfh has been a real saviour from that point of view this year. I'm lucky to have an office job, be kind of my own boss, and have quite a long track record with the company. I'll be using annual leave for scan on Monday but only because I was already taking it.

I have joined conference calls from all sorts of weird places as a result though. The waiting room/corridor at care London was a particular low point and many of the cafes around Harley street and the Portland have hosted me and my laptop for a few hours. I've had to take a number of black cabs home in order not to be underground for my next call.

My work has absolutely suffered but it doesn't seem to have been noticed yet. I think the fact I'm back from mat leave this year probably has protected me a little. It might have been better to be upfront but I just couldn't really bear to be and cope with the pressure of people wondering why it hasn't worked yet. I may tell the girl who works for me if I get to the point of telling her I'm pregnant. As she has saved my ass a number of times without knowing it.

I also used annual leave for all my ivf but eventually I went part time when ttc my first. It was just impossible with the number of admissions I had due to mc and medical and surgical management I had. Plus ivf stuff on top. most My care was in London which is a 4 hour train journey away. I made a list of all my appointments and admissions in 3 months and it was like a page long. Which convinced me. I was lucky we could afford me to do it. But it meant my life was so much easier planning appointments and if I needed surgery for a mc I only ended up taking the odd day off rather than longer. And I planned scans on day off.

I’m so glad I did that. It really affected my professionally and I resisted it a while but my husband pushed me to do it. I know some people would say I allowed infertility to have a huge impact on my daily life but it made life easier for me and i was like a dog with a bone I wouldn’t stop or take a break.,..

I would always enjoy Xmas. Try rem I had my hubby and other good things and would go into the new year with hope that maybe my time would come one day…

@Cream123 I don't have any hope :( my therapist said she usually works on what a childless life might be like, but says that I refuse to accept that. She wants me to move onto surrogacy as it will have a higher chance of working, she says if something else goes wrong I would be a high risk. She said normally people can focus on good things in their life. I don't though, nothing matters to me. I don't know how I'd afford surrogacy, I definitely can't cut down my hours if I go down that route. I think I could just about scrape it with all mine and my husbands savings, but then I wouldn't be able to afford to be off on maternity.

This is partly why I elected to go down the short protocol route and chose a clinic close to home and a train station for work. I managed to do all scans at 730am and often used the London branch instead of my local one if I happened to be working there that day. I only took annual leave of it was a transfer or egg collection but was lucky that in 5 cycles most of them fell on a weekend. I'm also lucky that I can work from home and did so during all my ectopics and miscarriages

@Gardenlady543 in terms of surrogacy I know a few couples who have done it but they had a very very lovely family members offer each time (usually sister or even sisters in law).
There was a documentary on BBC not so long ago about surrogacy which might be worth a watch? In terms of cost I don't think it works out much more than a full cycle of IVF due to the surrogacy rules in the U.K. x

I found surrogacy in U.K. too much to get my head around but I did contact brilliant beginnings. I was more into the usa model but it’s eye wateringly expensive I spoke to circle who works a lot with U.K. couples. But now with covid it’s so much harder ….I know it’s got all sort of ethical issues but I didn’t have a friend of sister who could do it for me…

I also couldn’t accept a childless life. I just couldn’t. That’s why I kept going and going . Not sure why ur therapist wants u to work on that??Maybe u need a counsellor not a therapist just someone to off load too….if u want a family u will have one it just might come at a different time Or in a different way or look different to how u planned it to look…

Nothing else mattered to me. But I knew to stay strong and To keep going and not to give up I had to have resilience and strength. And I found that in my marriage , fun with my husband and doing things which brought me some happiness. Ow I wouldn’t have had the strength to keep going and going like I did. If I had just shut down to everything I wouldn’t have been able to continue on my journey…every medical appointment I’ve had since getting preg last time Or this time starts with “gosh u have been through a lot” or “your complicated”.

I honestly sometimes wonder, like all of us on this board how we do it and did it. It’s really so so though.

I don't have a family member either. I don't know what to do at the moment, it seems like continuing to transfer embryos into me when they never implant is just wasting them, I'm not sure how many to do before coming to the conclusion that it isn't going to work, especially when they're euploid.

@Gardenlady543 there is a famous enough case of surrogacy here in Ireland if you want to look it up - Rosanna Davidson. She did it in the Ukraine.

I think you mentioned this therapist before and she had some very questionable views then. Suggesting someone ‘move on’ to surrogacy from a therapist view seems a bit off to me. I can’t imagine trying to do a deep dive into my emotions while doing IVF. Too stressful and bringing emotions up when you’re already going through so much. Counselling to offload and get coping strategies is different. I’d wonder if this intense therapy is benefitting or harming you? I know we don’t know you in real life and what your mental state is but often this therapist seems to upset you more than help.

I know I keep saying it but it is also so important to just take a break. You’re now one of those people for whom IVF doesn’t work easily and in that case it really is a marathon not a sprint. Would you consider just taking these swabs but otherwise forgetting about it until Feb and having December & January off? We always did this and found it helped and it’s not a very productive time to do treatment anyway with clinics closing and slow to get results.

I am so sorry @Gardenlady543 ❤️ I know we're in different positions but that sense of hopelessness is really strong. It's really overwhelming trying to navigate the here and now whilst grieving and also think logically about the future.
I don't feel like your therapist's approach is helpful, at all. You are seeking help and the sessions should be guided by you, not her agenda. Of course surrogacy is an option but you don't need her pushing you to make immediate decisions.

We're having to take an enforced break, which I understand for multiple reasons but I am struggling with it, even though I am not ready to start thinking about more ivf or ttc naturally (we have spoken about this but I still need to understand why my immune protocol didn't work this time, so we just have to wait for the baby's tear results). I know long term its for the best but day to day I am struggling to get through. It's an uphill battle.

I just wanted to say thank you to you all for thinking of me. I'm not in a good place, hence not being around much. I'm finding recovery from the surgery difficult and I'm questioning everything and am constantly feeling anxious. I've managed to book in with my baby loss counsellor who I saw last year as I am not able to process what's happened. I still struggle to believe I was pregnant and it's over. I do appreciate everyone's support 💕 hope you're all OK @Cream123 @Janefx40 @Dochas121 @seven201 @whatcangowrong xx

As I'm a teacher I can't use annual leave. I have to fill in a form and say exactly what type of ivf appointment it is (I quite enjoyed writing drug infusion directly into my uterus on a form!) and then I get 15 hrs paid per 12 months, unpaid after that. I wouldn't want to use sick leave personally as I've been given an ivf policy, so I guess I'm meant to follow that and 5 days of absence a year triggers meetings etc. I know I always bang on about this, but I do find juggling ivf around work the hardest part. I work 3 1/2 days per week and often my time off is spent on fertility admin or appointments. I'd really struggle to work full time. I went for a clinic closest to work thinking that would be best but it is very inflexible on timings. No early, late or weekend appointments and always very booked up so often given no option at all on times.

I'm glad you've collected your sample @Gardenlady543 . Sorry, but I'm another one who is not liking the sound of what your therapist is saying, it sounds like she's pushing her views on you. Surrogacy is an incredibly personal thing and it certainly isn't the answer for everyone. I'm not saying it's not right for you, but I don't think she should be guiding decisions that massive to the extent she sounds like she is. I am like you in that I don't like any delays, I just want to be either in a cycle or doing some kind of test that is going to help in some way. Any month off seems like a waste, even though I know that it can be valuable. I really wish I could get in the mindset of others of enjoying having a break from it and taking that time to enjoy life again. Although I do realise I am fortunate in that my surgery has changed things now, so I don't feel as much ivf pressure at the moment.

@VenusStarr good to hear from you. I'm glad you're going to speak to the baby's loss counsellor again. Be kind to yourself, you've been through such a lot.

I've a splitting headache so sorry not to give a full reply but I've read all you've said, I'm sorry things are rubbish for so many right now and I love you all...xxx our day will come, somehow xxx

@VenusStarr sending you much strength and love. It could be no harm to not be on the boards as much anyway while you’re on a break unless you want to check in or talk about something yourself. I know I have been thinking of you and been hoping you are doing ok.

Take care everyone. X

I'm the one that brought up the surrogacy by the way and how I don't know when the right time will be and whether I should be going for it now, I just can't see it ever working in me. I've had a very light period just a day of flow, I wonder if there are thin lining issues again.

I'm so sorry to hear this @VenusStarr gosh it's just so tough. I'm sending you a virtual hug.

@Dochas1211 I'm not sure about the break I don't want one, I need to sort the microflora stuff though. I've also sent off some day 3 bloods and an AMH today as well.

@seven201 yeah I definitely don't like the treatment breaks, in a year I've only done 4 transfers with all the tests.

@Janefx40 sorry to hear about the headache, I hope it's gone now!

It's really tough @Gardenlady543 definitely use your therapy space to explore your thoughts. Maybe the fact that you don't know for certain is a sign that you're not quite ready to move on yet?

Hope your headache has gone @Janefx40 hope every one else is doing well x

I think I've got an infection 😢 I just need closure on this now but I'm cramping heavily and had some concerning discharge, so epu gave told me to go in tomorrow for swabs. Feeling very helpless.