ERA/ALICE/EMMA testing thread 2

[seven201]

Link to the old thread
https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/infertility/4187520-era-testing-after-multiple-implantation-failures-anyone-had-it-done?msgid=110302437&utmsource=mentions&utmmmedium=email&utmcampaign=2020-10-19&utmmterm=You+have+been+mentioned+in+a+post&rei=438192#110302437

Welcome to the new thread. Anyone welcome.

Thank you @Janefx40 @Dochas121 @seven201 ❤️❤️❤️ I've had a little cry this morning. I bought some affirmation cards and picked one at random today and it says 'I let go of worry and tension and instead I choose joy'. So I have done a bit of journalling and reminded myself of the things I'm grateful for.

Are you having a scan today @Gardenlady543?

Glad you have a plan @Cream123 hope you're getting on OK

Hope you've had no further spotting @seven201 I don't know about the pessaries sorry.

Hope you're OK @whatcangowrong xx

I'm sorry about the delay @Janefx40 that really sucks! I don't understand why clinics insist on shutting over Xmas, my clinic is clearly really busy this month because of it.

@seven201 I'm going to keep using the pessaries, if I do get pregnant until the first scan (week 6/7). This is a protocol for a research project where the researchers are doing that: bmjopen.bmj.com/content/10/10/e035866.abstract

I hope everyone is ok. I have a scan tomorrow and was checking the appointment time and they've booked in the procedure for a week on Wednesday, so it looks like that is when the transfer will be if the scan goes ok. I hadn't planned on it being that early, I booked leave for the following Friday and Monday and have a full day of patients on the Wednesday!

Sitting waiting for transfer now, seems like maybe one didn't survive the thaw so they will defrost my final and seriously not great embryo if so and see if that one does.

Haven't taken the day off today, have generally been able to get away with it before but am so busy at work and it's just incredibly stressful trying to field calls and even be on a flipping zoom call in the waiting room of CARE London 😫. I think I'm going to have to change the approach, tell work, and take some time off if this goes on any longer but I'm in the middle of what should be a really career enhancing project and don't want to lose it. Would be a whole lot easier to fit in a few shags a month around work frankly!

@VenusStarr you poor thing but you're doing all the right things and sounds like you're being kind to yourself. Affirmations is a great idea.

@Dochas121 my clinic insists on cyclogest going up the other passage 😳 but I do think generally that's the best way once you get used to it as @Janefx40 says.

@Gardenlady543 good luck with the scan.

@seven201 thinking of you and your little trier (was going to call it an embryo but in the world of natural conception that sounds weird somehow!)

@Janefx40 I'm pissed off on your behalf re clinic closures and undisclosed further delays.

Good luck @whatcangowrong I hope it goes well!

@Gardenlady543 oh no that the transfer is probably sooner than expected. Very annoying having to rearrange all those patients, but it will be good to have less time to wait before the transfer.

Thank you for that link. I think I'll do one tonight. I had horrendous thrush through my last pregnancy that just wouldn't shift, so am keen to help prevent that from happening again and obviously want it to be a nice environment for the little embryo/little trier (I like that name whatcangowrojg) to get comfy in.

@VenusStarr affirmation cards sound a good idea. I had an acupuncture session booked for tonight in lead up to my transfer, but am going to go anyway to try and help the nerves of the moment.

@whatcangowrong oh gosh. I thought you only had two left, did you have three (the third lower quality)? I'm sorry that one didn't defrost well. I think it's quite common so don't feel disheartened. It happened to one of mine but only for pgta testing. It's so hard with work. Last transfer I had my bp was through the roof (and they nearly insisted on re-freezing my embryo and cancelling the cycle) as I'd rushed from a stressful morning at work. I decided I'd never work the morning before a transfer again.

2 on board! 🙏.

Woop congrats on being PUPO @whatcangowrong

Congrats @whatcangowrong delighted both embryos are transferred and hopefully snuggling down now!

@Gardenlady543 good luck tomorrow with the scan. Hopefully your lining is continuing on a good path and there won’t be any delays to your transfer. Very annoying about having to rearrange your work load but it’ll be nice to get the transfer done quicker too.

Had a call with my clinic today just about my progesterone levels and I asked about HCG. I didn’t make it to test day on my two previous transfers as I’d already started bleeding so I don’t know much about it but I read that 100 proper positive test but the nurse said to me 25 pregnant and happy to see that result so it’s all a bit confusing.

What have others been told? I do my bloods at satellite clinic and they cc me in the email to My London clinic so I want to know the interpretation when I get the email not waiting on the London clinic to call me to explain.

I’ve had some cramping today 6dp5dt so test day looming is starting to feel real and scary. I’m flat out at work too. I’d love to take the week off and just hibernate! Cant decide on whether to take Friday off or not.

What did you guys do on test day?

Ps I say hope a lot in my messages I realised! 😂 just to let you all know Dochas is the Irish word for Hope!

but the nurse said to me 25 pregnant

I think this is in accordance with NICE/NHS guidelines

But most clinics like to see a hcg over 100 on 9dp5dt as there have been quite a few studies which show that 100+ on this day the pregnancy has the best chance of being successful x

@Dochas121 I had a hcg of 13 7dp5dt with me son. And he was fine. He was then 35 9dp5dt.

Id say that was quite an anomaly! But anything over 5 I would continue tx and hope for best . The rise in hcg is more important than absolute numbers though I can’t say I was very positive at being told it was 13!

Good luck!

@Dochas121 in my fresh cycle my hcg was 5.2 at 9dp5dt and my clinic said it was negative, but I'd tested faintly positive at home. So retested on 11dp5dt and it was stronger, hcg was 14.9 them home tests were darker but by 16dp5dt my hcg was under 2. I was in the grey zone. With this one my hcg was 113 and the clinic were really happy with that. I didn't do a second test. That's reassured me a bit @tiggerwhocamefortea my anxiety has peaked today and I've got cramps this afternoon and just can't help but worry.
I kept my day fairly light on test day and spent the afternoon with dh, took the pressure off. I'd love to sleep until I'm further along, these early days from transfer are torturous.

Congrats on being pupo @whatcangowrong ❤️ I'm sorry one didn't make it x

Good luck with your scan tomorrow @Gardenlady543

@whatcangowrong congrats. So they did both defrost in the end? Two chances snuggling up in there. Thanks for being pissed off on my behalf. Made me smile.

@Dochas121 because I was at ARGC and they do bloods every 2 days from test day, there is a lot of information on the FB group on different Hcg levels and outcomes. So yes there are examples and quite a few of them of women who had very low Hcg on test day and had healthy pregnancies. However most healthy pregnancies have a result of over 100. But don't forget that clinics test on different days! A result like @Cream123 of 13 at 7dp5dt (what a lovely outcome!) would be very different at 10dt5dt or even 14dp5dt so obviously depends when your clinic designate as OTD. Fingers crossed for you and your bean. It definitely gets harder as OTD approaches.

@VenusStarr hang in there with your affirmations.

@Gardenlady543 good luck with scan. Can't believe transfer is so soon.

We've got so many transfers on this thread at the moment !

Thanks all that’s really helpful! It’s as clear as mud on Dr Google! That’s a wonderful HCG @VenusStarr sorry to hear you’re still in the throes of anxiety. I hope the week goes quickly for you to get to scan day.

@Cream123 amazing re your son. What a little miracle! Good to know there can be positive stories from lower levels.

I was initially told by clinic that I should test on Friday but that’s 10 days after the transfer and with all of you mentioning 9 days I emailed the nurse to see if I should be doing the HCG on Thursday instead. Today has dragged so much as I don’t actually want to test it would be better to just know.

I’ll see what they say back.

@whatcangowrong hope you’re home and resting up.

Both did make it yes 👍. They say they need at least 50% to survive the thaw and after a few hours out of the freezer they felt mine had perked back up and was at about 60. I don't think that bodes super well but I'm telling myself that identical twins always only have 50% of cells, and they make it often! The better one defrosted quite well and progressed to full from early blast.

I really hope something sticks this time (twins would be fine!). I'm really having some doubts about how much more of this I have in me now (hasn't been that long but an intense year with a round or transfer most months since March). Feels we are maybe out of time even though not quite 39 yet. I asked the embryologist some questions today about our PGT results and she said it's likely my age and there's not much more we can do other than play the numbers game 😒. I feel I need to take a break from life to focus on it or the other way around.

@Cream123 how brilliant that your son overcame those low numbers. I had a chemical in May and was 19 at 10dp5dt - I was searching for stories like yours but probably best I didn't find any and get more hopeful!

@Dochas121 love that little factoid about hope!

I wrote back to the head nurse. It wasn't really a complaint but I did ask whether they had informed patients about the closures and pointed out that IVF is traumatic and patients will want to plan their cycles. Expect I will be ignored x

@Dochas121 yes I was convinced it was over. I even had some wine eeek! But then he started going up the right rate…possibly implanted later still don’t know!

I was argc before him and I had a hcg if 250 on 9dp5dt and I miscarried that pregnancy at 8 weeks (twin pregnancy)

Obviously these anomaly stories are always there but generally the stronger the hcg the better the chance u have.

But u still have to have hope if it’s low but positive I suppose is what i was saying! Good luck u hate the 2ww

@whatcangowrong amazing that they both made it safely into your uterus. Hopefully they're finding a nice snuggly spot in there.

@Dochas121 oh wow, test day is soon for you! My clinic do it 13 days after transfer, but just pregnancy test, not HCG.

@Gardenlady543 I hope your lining is nice and plump tomorrow.

Hi all I think I commented on this thread in its very early days. I've got some sad news - our third PGS and PGD normal transfer following three NHS retrievals has just failed, and that is most likely the end for us. We have no usable embryos left.

It is so sad. As far as I know we are both fertile - we conceived our first and only child naturally and quickly five years ago, and the IVF was just for genetic reasons. Stats suggest 95% of people with three chromosomally normal embryos will take home a baby, so we seem to have been very unlucky.

We did ERA, ALICE and EMMA before the first transfer, which were all normal, a hysteroscopy before the second transfer, which didn't find any issues, and then NK cells testing before the third transfer. The NK testing suggested some imbalances so I've been on steroids and did an IVIG infusion.

The first transfer resulted in a very early chemical - I had a positive test at 5DP5DT that faded out by about 8DPT. The second transfer I didn't test until 9DPT and got nothing. The third time I tested 10DPT and got a positive, but my hCG was measured 12DPT and was very low, so it was a chemical.

We've got our follow up appointment with the consultant in a couple of weeks. But they've already told me they have nothing more to offer. We can afford to pay for more rounds but we'd need to embryo bank at this stage, which would cost £40 - £50k and it would be galling to pay it and still not end up with a baby. And the mental load of managing appointments around working full time and childcare has really started to take its toll. I feel spent.

We are very lucky to have our existing child, but the genetic condition they inherited meant the very early years were filled with stress. Prenatal testing isn't an option for us for various reasons, so I will most likely go onto long term contraception to avoid getting pregnant naturally, which feels such a head fuck.

Anyway, I don't really know why I'm posting this. I don't want to put a downer on the thread as clearly IVF works for so many people - we just seem to have been very unlucky.

@msgloria sorry to hear about your bad luck and that it has all worn you out - I feel the same at the moment. It's really gruelling and the cost/benefit analysis is different when you already have a child I find - personally I was much more single minded and determined when we were going through this the first time around.

How old are you? I wonder if you have the time to be able to take a break, step off the treadmill, and reassess next year some time? It does seem you've had bad luck and so if you commit to that money you have a good chance of not being disappointed but that's obviously a personal decision. It makes me feel sick how much we have spent on treatment this year with nothing (yet) to show for it other than poor performance at work :-/

In your shoes I think I would take the Christmas period to enjoy life with your existing family and revisit the decision with fresh eyes in a month or 2. Sorry you're facing this, it's really hard.

@msgloria sorry to hear of your bad news. I think @whatcangowrong has given very good advice to take this time to reassess.

The only thing I could think of if you wanted to go again would be to bank and test embryos but then do your transfers at ARGC who do very close monitoring and extensive immune supports. I know they are very expensive though.

@Gardenlady543 good luck today. Hope scan goes well.

@whatcangowrong how are you feeling this morning?

Hope everyone else is doing ok. Hope you’re surviving @VenusStarr this week is going at a snails pace.

Thanks @whatcangowrong. Sounds like we're feeling similar levels of weariness! Totally empathise about nothing to show apart from a poor work performance. I really hope your current transfer is a success.

I'm 36. I think we will take a couple of months to reflect, but at the moment I can't see us going again. When I say I think we've been unlucky, I suspect there is something not quite right with our embryos that hasn't been discovered yet. My consultant and the embryologists say there aren't any indications of a problem, but I'm conscious for example that, of the nine embryos I've produced over three retrievals, all of them were day six and not one reached blast and biopsy stage on day five. I think they might just be running out of steam.

@Dochas121 thanks, there's a lot to think about with respect to changing clinics. Overall I've trusted our current clinic and I don't know that I could face the ARGC boot camp approach - mine is already quite full on with monitoring. Something to think about though.

Thanks everyone, I'm at 8.1mm so looks like transfer will go ahead a week tomorrow. When I was there I asked the nurse what my AFC is, the last time it was checked was September 2020 and it was 17 on each ovary so 34. I'm now on 14 on each ovary so 28, so still high, but some decline, although there will always be a monthly variation. I was feeling pretty despondent during the scan even though I'm close to transfer and things seem to look good, all I know is failure and I'm just constantly thinking about the next step.

@msgloria I'm so sorry to hear about your situation. How unfair to get 3 euploid embryos without the genetic condition and none took. This is worth a watch:
They are discussing a paper, that found the success rates for euploid transfers remains pretty consistent, even without changing anything. The author said they have looked at people having a 4th transfer, so 3 unsuccessful euploid transfers had happened before and on the 4th the chance of a live birth is still 50%. On the patient side of the course the issue is maintaining a bank of euploid embryos, the ongoing financial cost and the emotional impact.

Thanks @Gardenlady543. I've seen that study and to be honest at the moment I'm feeling very sorry for myself that I'm not in the 95% or so that have success within three euploid transfers. Because the two chemicals were so early I've not even registered a clinical pregnancy at this point. I honestly thought the hardest bit would be getting the right embryos, yet it's worked out so differently.

I really hope your upcoming transfer brings you success, but I know how painful the hope becomes.

@msgloria I understand, it is a useful study for the majority of people but the authors agree there is going to be a group of people with recurrent implantation failure, it's just hard to identify who that group is. I have had 3 unsuccessful transfers, the first 2 untested and the 3rd one euploid. When I tested my embryos 83% were euploid so my specialist felt that it's likely the first two were as well. I am lucky that I have 4 euploids left, but at the same time there doesn't seem to be much purpose is transferring embryos into me when I've never had a positive pregnancy test, I think about surrogacy a lot these days.

I know what you mean @Gardenlady543 I’ve been feeling very crampy yesterday and today, according to my period tracker my period would be due today. So I am now worried I won’t make test day again and that it hasn’t worked.

It’s great your lining is looking good though - is this an improvement on previous FET? As that’s could be what makes the difference.

I contacted clinic about test day. Two nurses replied. One said yes 9dp transfer is fine to test. The other said it’s fine but might not be conclusive so wait till 10dp so now I don’t know what to do. I don’t know if I can hack waiting until Friday with these cramps driving me crazy.