Anyone doing IVF at 40+ pt 2

[lucymills1234]

Setting up a new thread as the old one was nearly at the limit.

@Anxiousbuthopeful
@Islandstars
@Woodcottage1
@Unicorn9
@SerenditySunshine

@Bryterlayter1 @lucymills1234 Thank you, in that horrible state of trying to keep busy, but not too busy!

@Anxiousbuthopeful Have you thought any more about what you're going to do next? It's so so hard to know what to do for the best. I have really struggled these last few weeks, and been feeling extremely isolated. I hope you are doing ok.

@Bryterlayter1 I hope the consultation went ok today.

Hoping to get some advice from all of you with more experience. Had the consultation on Thursday. Dr is saying for next round he wants to start with a higher dose of fsh likely gonal f and meriofert to see if follicle can develop quicker thus avoiding a longer stimming period and elevated hormones. I asked if we could wait until January for next cycle as work is crazy from October to December. Not a problem but wants amh tested in December to see if there is a drop (amh was 22.6 in June). So far so good.

Dr has advised there are some tests we could do hysteroscopy and immunology blood test (for killer cells and cytokines) also recommended growth hormones during the next cycle. I’ve costed this out immunology tests are about £1000, hysteroscopy £995 and the growth hormones are about £200 a shot and I’ll need 5. I’ve had 1 failed ivf cycle, I’m not sure I want to spend all this extra just yet. I have another cycle at this clinic though access, but I’m fairly sure I don’t want to carry there if this cycle doesn’t work. I’d rather try a completely different approach like mild ivf. Am I crazy?

@Bryterlayter1 To me, it sounds like your clinic are jumping to the most expensive tests without much justification, rather than tackling the obvious issue for over 40s of egg quality. Immunes are normally discussed after several failed transfers, or 1 or 2 euploid failures. Understand you’ve had a BFN, but your round in terms of eggs colllected vs blasts would still be considered a success, even for younger ladies.

I don’t know about higher doses, but less stimming days may be a good thing. I think it’s right they want to change the protocol if you feel things didn’t go to plan, but these tests can lead you down an expensive rabbit hole unless they are warranted and I think one failed cycle is sadly the norm rather than anything too alarming at this stage, especially when they will not do anything to improve egg quality.

@lucymills1234 Do you feel any clearer on your options? Can imagine you’ve been through a lot of stress these past few weeks.

@IslandStars thank you! This was my feeling as well. I believe the human growth hormone is to address egg quality, but it is a new experimental (and expensive) treatment that isn't yet licensed in the UK for IVF.

I think I am going to say no to the additional tests and treatments for the moment and see how I get on with cycle number 2.

Hi @Bryterlayter1 there's a lot there for you to think about, for sure. First of all, your AMH is great! So there's a positive. Mine was 9.6 when tested last year so has probably dropped by now (I only have one ovary though which lowers it anyway).

The tests you are being recommended sound a little early for your stage of treatment - first time success is unlikely at this age. After two top quality failed transfers I had blood tests for clotting factors and immune response but even now after four failed transfers (one of which was a chemical) a hysteroscopy hasn't been mentioned. That doesn't mean it's not right in your case, but if I were you I would definitely want to question the rationale. Your Dr may be telling you the range of what is possible rather than recommending what you should do, and just because you can do something doesn't mean you should (stating the obvious).

I don't know anything about the human growth hormone treatment to comment, sorry. On the stims, it sounds like there is logic to the revised approach though there is never certainty around how your body will respond. I had a high dose (300ui) of Ovaleap on previous cycles - first time I stimmed for 13 days and got 12 eggs, second time 11 days and got 18 eggs on exactly the same protocol.

Your approach to see how round 2 goes seems sensible. I do understand that feeling of not having complete confidence in your clinic and it is really unsettling, so I hope this time goes smoothly for you.

@IslandStars I hope your 2WW is going ok. I am looking to do two more rounds of collection at my current clinic, but paid separately so I can do one first and see how it goes. I should start in the next few weeks.

Hi all, sorry for the radio silence. It's been a rough few days.

The night before my egg retrieval a colleague announced her pregnancy, then when I got home a girl I'm mentoring messaged me to tell me she had just given birth.

The operation itself was awful. Kids running round the waiting room (which felt like rubbing it in, even though I know that's ridiculous) and the nurses forgetting my husband left a frozen sample, asking where he was because time is running out. Surgery was terrifying (I had to point out there were air bubbles in the drip they hooked me up to), when I came round I was told to go see the dr the next day.

Four of my follicles had "collapsed", and the one egg they did retrieve was abnormal with "weird fluid". The bedside manner out here leaves a lot to be desired...

I'm still sore, grumpy and bloated but trying to look at the positives. We have resolved never to use this clinic again, or do IVF out here in Qatar again. Pandemic or no, I can't deal with these clinics, and would rather be back in Europe where clinics seem nicer (still can't get into the UK without a pricey quarantine hotel). So on the plus side, I'll never have to see this awful doctor again

It's also clarified a lot of stuff for us. My husband and I met in our mid thirties, so there's really nothing we could have done to change our ages or the fact that we're trying for kids late. I've come to terms with the fact that my age is the issue, and the next step for us is egg donation. Everyone has their own decision to make on this, but the big plus for me is that I won't pass on my health issues (I've had arthritis since my teens) to any future child. We're happy to adopt, but because of our jobs, no adoption agency would touch us, so this is the next best thing.

I'm still trying to deal with everyone else's pregnancy announcements, and am seeing a therapist this week to help deal with it, because I recognise now that I'm really struggling processing other people's happiness.

And even better, no more IVF means no more of those blimmin' jabs, and vials that I kept exploding all over the kitchen! I never really got the hang of it properly, and my fingers are still shredded to ribbons!

@lucymills1234 my heart is so full for you. It is AWFUL doing this alone, and I really hope it works out for you in the end.

@Bryterlayter1I think you're right to say no to the extras. The first clinic I went to see was trying to push millions of extras on me, and it felt like a hard sell which was so off-putting. And Dr Doom at my last clinic tried to sell me on ovarian PRP treatment (injecting my own plasma into my ovaries ) before doing a double stimulation to try and get more eggs. When he said "I've had many women get pregnant this way" that's when I knew I had to say no. I know my body, and know it can't handle 3 successive operations in short order, and he should've known that too given the state I was in, and how long it takes me to recover from the general anaesthetic they insist on here. Instead, he tried to dangle the illusion of getting pregnant like "the other ladies" and that's when I knew he was just trying to get more money out of me.

Anyway, this is a ramble, but good luck to all of you. We're going to take a break, go on holiday. Drink a lot of cocktails, and in the new year give it another go with egg donation. I really hope it works out for all of you

Hi @noopsie it's so tricky when people announce their good news, isn't it - you want to be unreservedly happy for them but it's tinged by your own longing to be in their shoes. I really get that, there have been a few times lately when I've seen pregnancy announcements or people with a bump and it feels like a physical blow. I try not to let it, but it can put me into a weird frame of mind for days.

Sorry that you didn't have better luck with egg collection - either the procedure (which sounds awful!) or the results. I'm glad it was somehow still useful in helping clarify your options and making peace with the decision to try egg donation next.

I struggled to come to terms with where I am in life vs. how I expected to be trying for a baby but as you say, you can't go back in time and you sound like you have a very healthy acceptance of your circumstances.

Great plan to have a holiday and return to it next year. Loads of luck - keep us posted.

@lucymills1234 Glad you’ve got plans sorted, not long to go too.

I’m 6dp5dt now, had a few symptoms, but nothing I could pinpoint for certain and with the amount of meds I’m on, I can’t get my hopes up. I’m undecided on whether to test tomorrow or Thursday, am really scared of another BFN, so may live in the unknown for a bit longer.

@IslandStars thanks. I don't know whether I am doing the right thing or not but I knew the decision wasn't going to get easier and no-one was going to help me make it so I had to just go for it.

As for testing, I know that the fear of a BFN can be paralysing. I've always tested on OTD but am probably in the minority. Stating the obvious, when I've been hesitant I've reminded myself that the result is already determined in my body, the test is just to let my head in on it. I understand that ignorance can be bliss though.

@IslandStars did you test, or still waiting? Fingers crossed.

@lucymills1234 Sadly it's almost certainly BFN. Negative late afternoon yesterday on frer and again on a clearblue this morning. Clinic have kindly let me book a review already for next week - i rang them as i expected to wait 3 weeks. Still doing bloods tomorrow so i can stop all these meds.

Am devastated and feel like IVF has just caused me more trauma at being childless than i had before i started it. I've had 2 euploid failures now and fallen on the wrong side of the 60% success rate each time, so i can't help but feel i will never have that element of luck needed. I'm prepared to do another round, but need an honest discussion with the clinic as to whether it is worth it. Also not sure whether to PGS again, as with a single round, i may not get enough to make it worthwhile. Am considering a fresh transfer, then freeze and/or PGS any others.

Oh crap @IslandStars I'm really sorry... that must be a huge blow and I can see why you'd feel totally despondent and also somehow cheated to have had 2 euploid failures. I realise that you've not had a definite BFN yet (I'm sure some people would say there's still uncertainty at 8dp5dt) but I don't want to patronise you by saying keep your hopes up when they must be in tatters.

It's helpful that your clinic have let you book the review already. I think you're right to have that discussion with the clinic and see what they say - maybe there are tests that they'll now recommend? It should be possible for you to do the round and make the call about whether to transfer or test once you have an idea of numbers, I don't think clinics like playing it by ear but it's a reasonable request. If you know that you are doing one round only, then you're probably going to want 4 or 5 blasts I guess to justify PGS. Without PGS you could lose time transferring that number one by one as I have discovered. If you got 1 or 2 then transfer is more attractive. I suspect that if I only get 1 blast from round 1, I'll really have to think about whether to freeze and try to get more from a second round then test everything, or just carry on and transfer...

There are no easy decisions in IVF, and we never get to know what might have been had we made different ones. As awful as it feels that IVF has caused you more trauma, it may help in the future to be able to know that you did all you could and there are no unexplored avenues that you wish you'd taken. A small consolation when you're grieving, I know.

Hope you're able to get some sleep and that the beta gives you the clarity you need to move forward.

Thanks @lucymills1234 I know you’ve just been through all this so appreciate you taking the time to offer advice, as you’ll obviously still be really hurt yourself.

Good suggestion to hold back the PGS decision until I know how many blasts. I’ll try to get the clinic to be more flexible. I didnt realise how expensive the testing would be outside of the multi cycle package, so with just 2 blasts for example, it won’t be worth it.

I always wanted to give myself the best of 3 euploid transfers and another 3 cycle package would be cheaper than 2 separate rounds, but I just can’t face that long banking wait again without transferring anything. It takes up the best part of a year and that’s without any unexpected problems occurring.

Am worried the problem is with me & not the embryos. At my age, I don’t have time for extensive immune testing, or the money if I’m going to do more rounds. Part of me thinks I may have struggled with implantation even if I was going this in my 30s. I get the blasts, but have never had a chemical or mc, as distressing as they are, not wishing them obviously, but I am not progressing either.

Hi all I was on here before nc. I’m sorry to see so many of you struggling, it really is so brutal. I found the years of loss and issues the worst thing I’ve ever experienced.
@IslandStars the immunes testing isn’t that complicated and doesn’t take long but is expensive. If you try Gorgy or Shehata privately , you could try and test killer cells , lad ( whether your body protects pregnancy with antibodies or not) . Implantation issues are often associated with immune response. It might be worth testing before more ivf x

Hi all, sorry for not responding earlier MIL died earlier this week, so life is a bit chaotic and sad.

@lucymills1234 thanks for your perspective on the treatments. I think the clinic were offering me possible tests without insisting they were necessary. Dr did mention that we would have to weigh up the costs against benefits. I do think they are a good clinic and I have confidence in them, it's just that if we need/decide on a 3rd round, I'd probably want to try something radically different like mild IVF which they don't do at my current clinic. So many things to weight up in this process!

@noopsie I'm so sorry to hear about that happened at EC, that sounds just awful and I don't blame you for wanting to wait until you can get back to the UK.

@IslandStars I'm so very sorry about the BFN. This whole process just feels fo cruel. I can't offer any advice beyond what as been given, but I am sending you good wishes.

@Rubyrebel Thank you, I’m going to have a real think this week on whether I can justify another round, as much as it will destroy me to stop.

@Bryterlayter1 Thank you, sorry to hear about your MIL, a horrible time to be dealing with so much stress.

Hi all,
I popped on here a while back as we were considering a last fresh cycle following a failed FET (my partner and I are 41 with two IVF miracles, I have low AMH and he DID have sperm issues but we have both had super results on vitamins and supplements recently so he currently has supersperm!).
I'm just leaving my clinic in Prague following a hysteroscopy and have the go ahead and medication to start stimms my next period (end of month). My protocol has been changed and I have new stimm medication called Pergoveris and a 10 day estimated stimm time with cetrotide being introduced mid stimm. I wondered if anyone had any experience of this medication?
I will read back over the thread shortly and try to catch up with your current situations but I do hope all is well xxx

Hi @firefly37, I've not heard of that medication but I've hardly heard of anything! I'm 43 and have done 2 egg freezing cycles previously, one of which was a disaster with only 1 egg retrieved. Going ahead with a fresh cycle in the new year using donor sperm and seeing if any of my frozen eggs fertilise too, so would be keen to hear about your supplements. I'd looked into Prague but they don't accept single women I believe! Hope you have a safe journey home x

Hi @LouScot... I think ur right in that Prague don't treat single ladies ... What protocol were u on where only one egg retrieved? Do u know ur AMH? Mine is 5 which is the same as it was 3 years ago somehow... Possibly due to my vitamins! I take Dhea, coq10 ubiquinol, wheatgrass, proceive for women, omega 3, alpha lipoic acid, manganese and melatonin! In May this year my FSH was 15 and not suitable for ivf.... 3 months on the vitamins my FSH is 6. Xx

Hi @firefly37, it was a short protocol. I actually did it twice, first time 5 eggs and 4 suitable for freezing, next time 2 ans only 1 suitable. I'm overweight so they just said it was that and my age. My Amh was 10 3 years ago when I was almost 40 which I'd thought was alright , then went to 4.8 last year at almost 42 and was 5.5 this year at almost 43 they've said it didn't actually go up though, just variation between tests.... But seems stable, I was worried sick it'd drop even more as it did drop between 40 and 42. I'm taking ubiquinol and alpha lipoic acid as well as NAC, vits d and c. My clinic don't measure fsh from what I can tell. Is that the one you have to do on day 3? What is the wheatgrass you take and how much? I'm kind of hesitant about the dhea but equally wish I'd started ages ago. Sorry for the questions! x

Hi all

@IslandStars have you had the follow-up with your clinic yet? If so, were they able to help guide your thoughts or have you already come to some conclusions? I can understand why you're reluctant to go the banking route, it does take a long time and there's the long wait to reach any outcome. The uncertainty of IVF is the hardest bit, for sure. If you knew there was a light at the end of the tunnel, it would be a whole lot easier to accept the rough ride to get there.

@Bryterlayter1 where are you with everything now? Hope all's ok.

Hi @LouScot not sure I have seen you here before! Best of luck with your fresh cycle. It's good that you have eggs already frozen.

I am just underway with fresh cycle 3 on a long protocol. Have already started Norethisterone and begin Buserelin injections tomorrow. My AMH and FSH were measured over a year ago now and my last EC was 7 months ago so I'm wondering how it will go this time in terms of my response. Only time will tell. Am keeping up with all the supplements and hoping for the best...

@LouScot
Dhea is suggested at 75mgs for infertility but from the book "it starts from an egg" they suggest that could be too much... I initially took 50mgs but then my testosterone measured well so I reduced to the recommended daily amount of 25mgs. Wheatgrass I take as capsules as per the daily recommended amount. Apparently its a nutrient powerhouse for fertility! Xx

Before taking dhea you need to test testosterone and dheas levels . It’s a hormone so it can mess your body up. I missed a cycle at my clinic because I just took it and didn’t need it and sent my hormones sky high and it can damage egg quality.
I also took wheatgrass fab stuff

Can I ask those of you who take wheatgrass what brands you use? Amazon is overwhelming!!