Anyone doing IVF at 40+ pt 2

[lucymills1234]

Setting up a new thread as the old one was nearly at the limit.

@Anxiousbuthopeful
@Islandstars
@Woodcottage1
@Unicorn9
@SerenditySunshine

@lucymills1234 or anyone else….. have you tried an ERA before? Endometrial Receptivity Anaysis apparently?!

I had a follow up with a different consultant today and she bas suggested an ERA to see if there is something underlying and to better assess the optimal point of transfer. Apparently it looks at hormones, lining, infection and

just wondered if anyone had had one and if it helped to shed any light? She said it can be helpful if you have repeated failed transfers, especially when the embryos are good gradings?

all yet more money and HFEA rate it as red for been proven to clinically improves chances but I feel what is the point transferring if the environment is not good enough for them to implant??

anyone tried??

Hi, I have only posted a couple of times so I’m not very good at this but I must have been on the thread at some point as it comes up on my email. That’s interesting about an ERA, I haven’t heard of that before. I have had 3 rounds with 19 embryos frozen in all over the last 3 years. Most of them have been AA or B and yet I have only two miscarriages to show for all those transfers. Im 44 now and weirdly my last round was most successful with 9embryos, I had a miscarriage end of March and then another transfer which failed. I have thought all along that it may be something other than my age at fault. The clinic won’t hear it though, the only thing I have been offered is one test for an autoimmune issue ( I forgot what it was called) which was negative. They won’t do NK killer cell test. I have had a biopsy of my uterus when I had surgery for endo a year ago and it was fine. I get an unbearably itchy rash after transfer which is so bad and I come up in welts and I sometimes cave and take an anti histamine. The clinic haven’t even replied to my suggestion that it is linked to my failed implantations. I feel like I’m at the end of my line now and I’m not sure I want to continue given they won’t investigate anything else. I just feel there is so much they won’t even bother to look in to, just keep paying for more transfers and the outcome is the same…

@Faith78 I'm so sorry the journey has been so difficult for you. Have you considered changing clinics? Clinics like the ARGC in London seem to have good results for women of our age. However, it's been described as a IVF bootcamp and literally costs the earth. Sending much love.

Aw Thank you, ☺️ yes I thought about it but I can’t face it at this point. I actually looked into Ivf Spain in Alicante and a friend of the same age just had success from that clinic, but to transfer embryos would take months. Also I think that their success is a lot to do with their amazing donor program. I think I have had enough now and my body has reached its limit but it’s hard to step off the rollercoaster!

@Hopeful199 i haven't had an ERA, but I think they're quite common at the Evewell and are supposed to help you time the embryo transfer optimally? It's tricky with all these things to tell if they will be helpful or not when there isn't the data to support the HFEA upgrading from a red. I mean, PG testing is rated red by the HFEA but by testing we found out that an embryo we would otherwise have transferred was genetically abnormal, so it served its purpose for us.....

@Faith78 i'm so sorry, that sounds like you have really been through it. your reaction to transfer really sounds like an immune issue!? Even if you don't want to move your embryos to another clinic, it might be worth going to see someone like Dr Gorgy who focuses on immunology and may be able to give you some guidance? I think it's possible to keep immune treatments separate from the embryo transfer process itself - i recently had a consult with ARGC and they said quite often they give immune treatments to couples who then go on to conceive naturally.

i really didn't think i was going to like ARGC, but they did say some interesting things and their success rates are pretty compelling. the main things that were different that they were talking about (other than a LOT of monitoring) were putting embryos back at day 2 and then (not sure if i understood this correctly), potentially putting more back at day 5!? which is quite a departure from previous clinics who have all said that the lab is as good as the uterus and best to wait until blastocyst. the cost is huge (seems to be about double a round anywhere else), but as this is likely our last round i'm not sure if maybe it's worth throwing everything at it and worrying about how we'll pay for it afterwards. has anyone else had a consult with ARGC? on the other hand, the Lister seemed to have some different ideas about types of stims medications that work better for over 40s that could also make a difference......my oh is disinterested (to say the least) in the decision making process around clinics and i feel a bit overwhelmed. it feels like this should be a science where the doctors agree what the best pathway is, but there seem to be a lot of not only different but conflicting opinions (!).

@99pctpractice I have met a few ladies who have been successful at the ARGC, although one is under 40. She described that two embryos were transferred, one at day 2 or 3 and the other at day 5. Worked for her. I also know someone who had two rounds at the Lister but were both unsuccessful.
As for OH disinterest, I share your pain. My one only wants to discuss it when we are on stims. The fact that we have MFI makes me think he'd be a little bit more forthcoming, but alas.
On a positive, I think I shared before that my aunt was successful with her first round at age 42 and had her daughter at 43. Both my aunt and her partner had underlying health conditions but they responded to a standard protocol, got a couple of eggs, one embryo and hit jackpot. It happens 🌈

@Hopeful199 hiya, sorry for not replying sooner. I created a string or joined a chat that was on the ERA a while back as I decided to give it a try. To be honest in hindsight it was a waste of money for us personally.

I did the ERA and it came back normal for me so it was a huge disappointment. Despite this my consultant said he would plan to do the transfer within the window of the ERA and I stressed about us not making the window on transfer day… it didn’t work anyways despite the ERA. So although it sounds to be a fix I’m not convinced it is either.

Have you had your vaginal microbiome checked? I found that to be useful. Mine came back that I had bacterial vaginosis and I was treated for it. Who knows if that made a difference or not with conceiving but it can impact pregnancies.

I did Ivf in Greece. I thought it would be cheaper but in the end it wasn’t because I banked on us having one embryo and we had three. Dr Schrobot is a consultant in Ireland and I know she does IVF and is highly rated there. Have you heard of her? She does immunes as well. I credit her with my pregnancy being successful.

The things I found useful were:

1. Reflexology
2. Immune treatment - steroids and intralipids
3. Vaginal Microbiome - only because it tests a lot of things and there was something picked up for me.
4. Thyroid testing - They found I had hypothyroidism but this was early days so not much impact on my miscarriages.
5. Enhanced fertility app - I received counselling through them with a physychologist and it really helped me.
6. Fertility Hypnotherapy - if doesn’t have to be in person it can be an online download that you listen to but tbh this really helped my mind. It gave me a chance each day to relax and switch off from it all. It just felt like I had a long rejuvenation sleep! Hypnotherapy world I used and I went to see a hypnotherapist twice or three times. Also helped to challenge the mindset that I was too old!

Things I personally wouldn’t do again

1. IVF - only because I have recurrent miscarriage of natural pregnancies and I don’t think IVF solved this for us given we had no issues as such after any investigations and some of our babies that we tested came back normal. Also we didn’t realise it would take us so long to go through each round of transfers and how stressful it was for us.
2. IVF abroad - very disruptive, not cheaper than the Uk if you have more than one embryo as I couldn’t get a package
3. ERA - for me personally my window came back correct and I’m not sure that you can really completely mirror one cycle to another especially if you have immune issues - just my opinion.
4. PGT - I wonder due to my age if it impacted the embryos. A consultant in labour triage suggested this to me and it sits on my mind.
5. Natural Killer Cell testing at Coventry - I couldn’t get steroids even though I had high NkC the first biopsy and then low the second so didn’t see the point of doing it. Dr Schrobot just ran my bloods and looked at my white blood cells when I fell pregnant to decide whether or not to give me steroids and or intralipids so it seemed a waste of money and time.

these are only my opinions and related to my case. I think everyone has their own journey but I personally don’t think age is a factor. It is to some extent but who is anyone to tell you that you are too old. It’s like they don’t believe in you and want you to give up before you even start to hope. I’m proof… miracles do happen and he’s lying on me right now despite everyone’s comments and recommendations. Likewise it’s also ok to quit and walk away and live your life. It’s a massive emotional toll on your life, mental health etc.

if you have any questions drop me a mail. I hope the above has been useful if not, sorry to take up your time. I wish so much that everyone could realise their dream… good luck!

Hi @Hopeful199 I haven't had an ERA. As I had one implantation (though it turned out to be a chemical), my clinic doesn't think I have an implantation issue.
They always seem to view the likely cause of failures to be the statistically more likely option - so for example they see age as my issue because statistically, that's much more likely to be the case (especially given past implantation) than something like the receptivity window.

In many ways I'm on board with that approach, because I could do £5k of tests to rule out things which could only have a 1% chance of affecting me. But at the same time, if I am in that 1%, I'd need to have the tests to know.

But like @99pctpractice says there's no one size fits all because we all have different bodies and issues, not to mention different consultants with varying opinions. IVF definitely forces you to be your own advocate, no-one is as on 'your side' as you are. I've really deliberated over some decisions and in the end have just gone with my gut. I honestly don't know what else you can do.

I realise this isn't very helpful to you, sorry! Hope everyone is doing ok. I've finished Norethisterone. Bleed has started and I kind of want it to be heavy so I feel I have a blank slate for the next transfer. Am I weird?

Hi,

Hoping to join this thread :)

I'm 40 and currently going through transfers, we have 4 in freezer (2 day 5, 2 day 3), I only ever make 2 eggs per cycle but am lucky in the extent they both usually fertilise and grow. First cycle, I just transferred a day 5 last week, but its a bfn. They have discovered though that my estrogen drops quite rapidly! I don't know if its because they put me on these stupid patches which essentially just roll up after awhile and peel themselves off, or if my body is crap at making oestrogen. I went in with a good lining and good levels it just seemed to drop away as the days went on. I also have confirmed endometriosis and adenomyosis but managed to concieve my son whos 5 now and another pregnancy 2 years ago naturally after having surgery to remove it.

Had my beta hcg bloods today. 10days post 5d transfer. I started spotting on Sunday and had a negative test so assumed I was out. Got up this morning and did a home test before bloods which had a faint line. Beta was 32 which is low positive so something has happened but they can’t say if it is slow to rise or is falling. She nicely told me there’s more chance of it failing than rising so at least I can be realistic. To go back on Thursday morning to repeat bloods and see what is happening

Thanks ladies! So hard to know what to do for the best!

@Unicorn9 I actually have booked the EndomeTrio which includes the Emma and Alice so think it does the microbial stuff too.

@99pctpractice yes this is also what I figured with HFEA. Although studies aren’t there yet, lots of very high profile clinics offer it. I’m not sure they would (or you’d like to think so ethically) offer it if they truly don’t think it helped in some cases??

I have booked it and changed consultants…. Feels like I have done something mildly productive this time so we will see. In the meantime it is back to ovulation sticks to me in the hope of a miracle ‘between rounds’ conception!!!!!!

@lucymills1234 re the bleed….. not weird at all!! Feels like a fresher start in a way doesn’t it?? How are you feeling about going again? Xx

Hello everyone

Hope those waiting for results are ok?? I'm finally after a few delays starting my 2nd FET. Went for my baseline scan yesterday and doctor was positive which I have struggled to be recently , he said to me the biggest piece of advice I can give you is not stress or get stressed ! My GP has recommended taking time off work and concentrate on me for a few weeks feel guilty doing it but has anyone else done this?

Hi @Pinklady81 great that you are able to get things moving again.

Is this your FET or collection?

I havent taken any time off but only because I find it makes me more stressed. I would rather be busy and distracted.... but my friend always takes the time out and finds that is best for her. I think it is whatever you respond best to.

I am doing a mock cycle this round so in for baseline on Friday. feels surreal to go through the whole process without the prospect of a transfer at the end!? really hoping it gives them some more information to work from!?.....

Hello

well cycle cancelled again I am not responding to the higher dose gutted

@Pinklady81 oh hun; I am so so sorry to hear this.

what have they suggested next?

Hi all,

What's your latest @LT103 do you have any update from your bloods on Thursday? I'm sorry you had that uncertainty, it's awful.

@user1479588581 forgive the obvious question but if your oestrogen drops I assume they already have you on tablets and the patches were to supplement them? I'm currently having my second medicated FET (I've had fresh transfers/natural FETs before but didn't take oestrogen for any of them) but only take progynova so can't be much help sorry. It feels like it should be something they can address, has anything been suggested yet?

@Pinklady81 So sorry to hear your cycle is cancelled, that's miserable. What's next, do you know? On the work question, I've had 4 fresh rounds (with collections) and a total of 7 transfers - I'm currently on meds for my 8th. I've never taken time off but I don't have a physical job. At times it gets a bit stressful trying to juggle simply because my clinic rarely runs on time. When you add travel time too it can be a big chunk of the working day you go missing for. But in general I find work gives my mind something else to do. IVF is never far from my thoughts, especially in the TWW, but I manage to still deliver ok on the work front.

@Hopeful199 fingers crossed for the miracle but good that you have a plan in place if not. TMI but I did have a heavy bleed and my lining got down to below 3mm so I had the go ahead to start progynova. Back in at the end of this week to see if I can book in the transfer. I feel numb at the moment. The hope that this transfer could work out on one side and on the other my logical brain thinking you idiot, why would this one succeed when 7 'better' embryos have failed? I rationally know that better grade doesn't mean normal embryos but, still...

People say you have to keep hoping and thinking positive and I get that. But for every person that reassures you that you 'just have to keep trying' because they did and eventually it worked, there's others it never does work for. I've noticed people often say it worked on their last try - well yes, but it was your last try because it worked so you didn't need to try again! Am I making sense? I don't mean to sound super-negative and I still desperately desperately hope that this happens for me but the longer I go on, the more I fear that it's not going to and I don't know how I make peace with that. In one way having a chemical on my 3rd transfer gave me some hope that implantation is possible, and that's a major hurdle, but at the same time it makes it harder to stop because it feels I got so close (and yet so far).

Sorry for the Tuesday ramblings. Hoping someone else might get it because I have no-one directly in my life that does especially being single. All my friends conceived easily and many started families about 10 years ago.

@lucymills1234 I have spoken to the doctor this morning stopped all my meds last night abandoned the cycle and he has suggested next cycle naturally modified. He did mention donor eggs but this isn't for me right now . I feel a little bit more broken but got to keep moving. He said try it for my next cycle and see what it produces as my body wasn't responding to high doses of fsh he said ?

@Pinklady81 so sorry to hear your cycle was cancelled!!

@lucymills1234 i totally get it. It’s hard to stay positive when there are so many ups and downs!

we are still in limbo unfortunately!

had first hcg at 10dpt which was 32. They wanted it to be over 70 so said likely chemical or possibly ectopic
had second beta on Thursday at 12dpt which was 56. They said suboptimal as hadn’t doubled and said likely going to be loss.
spent al weekend upset and stressed. My frer are bizarre, lighter and darker and pretty much just unreliable.

went back test at 16dpt and broke down in tears with poor nurse. Had cramps for days bad enough to wake me up and just worrying about it all. Nurse was lovely and said levels not high enough to worry about ectopic but could indicate early loss and can take time.
then got call last night and my hcg is up at 180.7!!!!

so now we have no idea. It’s almost doubling as it should so could just have been late to implant but nurse still says need to be cautious given how low the numbers started as still much higher chance of miscarriage so I’m back again tomorrow for more bloods.

huge rollercoaster and still no answers

Can I ask are any of you doing pgt testing I've paid for it but the possibility of getting lots of embryos is very slim now for me so is it worth doing advice please??

@Pinklady81 i didn’t. To be honest it was too expensive. We got 7 frozen embryos and it would have been several thousand to do it which we just didn’t have. I’ve heard mixed reviews on whether it’s worth it

@Pinklady81 @LT103 I also looked into it but when the eggs are older the tests can be more unreliable and you risk discarding an embryo that could lead to pregnancy

I just don't know what is for the best anymore tbh. It is so hard to know what to do for the best!

@LT103 everything is crossed for you and the scan today. really hope it is good news for you

So hcg has gone up from 180 on Monday to 330 today but they’re still not happy and concerned it’s on low side and not quite doubling every 48 hours (even though the r nurse keeps telling me it’s 48-72hrs they look for) so they’re not doing any bloods and I’m booked in a week on Friday for a scan. I’ll be 6+4 so they’re basically wanting to see a gestational sac and yolk sac in correct area/not ectopic and may see a heartbeat if all ok but might be a bit early for that esp with me implanting late.
basically we still don’t know 😥

@LT103 so sorry you're in limbo but at least the numbers are on your side and hope they see what they need to see at the scan!!! So hard to be in that land of uncertainty - sending lots of hugs.

@Pinklady81 so sorry your cycle was cancelled :o( I had pgt testing for my last embryo - it told me that it was chromosomally abnormal, so I was pleased I had done it rather than going through a pointless 2ww (or worse, another miscarriage). But it is expensive, so it depends how you feel about transferring a potentially unviable embryo. If I go with Argc then they don't generally recommend testing and they also make you pay £500 upfront and don't reimburse if you don't have any embryos to test (!) but that would still be cheaper than having a transfer of a non-viable embryo esp given all the extra costs they have because of all the blood etc testing, so it's one for me to weigh up still.

@lucymills1234 so much of what you say resonates. A lot more people walk away from ivf without a baby than we are lead to think. It's just much less spoken about because people only talk about it when they have their success story. And I don't know how much longer I want to put myself through the ivf process. Because it's exhausting and just so so depressing :o( I'm on holiday and I thought it would be an escape from infertility, but I'm surrounded by families, babies and pregnant ladies in my hotel and that's making me sad too. I think it's going to be much harder than I had previously thought to put the dream to bed, even when I decide I have to draw a line under the ivf.

Hi all,

TFI Friday!

@Pinklady81 I didn't do PGT. I've ended up doing four ECs overall but didn't batch, I transferred as I went. Most times I only got a couple of blasts and as one fresh transfer was included in the cycle cost, testing the only one going into the freezer never seemed worth it. I did get 5 blasts on EC2 and in retrospect I should've tested those - one didn't survive the thaw, but going through the other 4 took a fair bit of time.

@LT103 Limbo is a cruel and horrible place to be in, I'm really sorry you're still there. I had about 4 days of that when I had a chemical, so I have some understanding but your experience sounds a nightmare.

@99pctpractice I've glad my waffle made sense to someone! I feel like I'm approaching a cliff edge of either making a decision to keep going, but probably with DE (which may still never work!) or giving up entirely. I almost feel I shouldn't even think about it in case I jinx the chance of this transfer working - as if that is even possible! IVF really does a number on your thinking.

Sorry that your holiday is being infiltrated by IVF thoughts. It's so all-consuming. I can completely get that there's no getting away from it, there are few areas of life IVF doesn't affect from what you eat to plans you make (or don't) to money to work. I've not been on holiday in 2 years (and haven't even had time off at home), mainly because I've put every single penny into IVF - and ironically, it costs more solo as you also need to pay for sperm... It's basically trumped everything else for years.

I'm prepping for a medicated FET and am on day 10 of progynova, so I had a scan earlier hoping to start progesterone tomorrow and book in for a transfer next week. But, I'm not ready :( My lining is trilaminar which is good but only 6mm. I'm surprised as I've never had a thin lining before. I did have a heavy bleed though and I'd had a scratch, so trying to see it as a positive that actually all the old lining went and my body is building up a nice fresh, blank canvas. Because my lining usually thickens up ok, they're not upping the progynova I just stay on it and back in for a scan next week. There's always something that isn't according to plan each cycle, so I hope this is the only thing!

@lucymills1234 yup it’s kind of ruined the experience a bit. I mean we’ve been “pregnant” for almost 2 weeks but still can’t enjoy it as they’re just constantly negative saying unlikely to stick. Cramping and v light spotting daily all along but they can’t comment much on that saying I’ll just need to wait it out until scan next week.
i guess I’m hoping I get as far as scan without miscarrying but even then I have risk of ectopic or just not viable/still probable early miscarriage.
i thought this would have been the easy part….