Cycle buddies April/May

[Summerloving17]

Hi ladies, just wondered if anyone wants to hold hands as we go through a cycle?

After a failed fresh cycle earlier this year, I’m starting my progynova today with a planned FET for May.

Would love some company x

@bangsaklove 14 is loads! You must be so pleased.

@Si1ver I nearly fell off the chair when she said that number! Was not expecting anything like that! Just praying some are good quality. Very happy for today :)

@bangsaklove, 14 eggs is amazing! Fingers crossed for a good fertilisation rate. 🤞

@Yorkshirelass27, sending you positive vibes for the two embies onboard. 🌟

Congrats @Ponypals on the bfp and @Ponypals on the whopping 14 eggs!!

I had CRGH consultation today. It was very interesting. I now understand why their success rate is 20%. Its a combination of:

• batch cycling
• PGS
• more personalised tailoring of meds and closer monitoring

What they are doing through the first 2 is basically selecting better embryos which then means chances per transfer are higher.

The price list was also 'interesting'

20% is for 38+ by the way! It's obviously much better for younger.

@happyhedgehog247 thats interesting that none of the clinics publish data on actual cycles started to number of embryos implanted

@AniSL but can’t you get all that information from the HFEA website which compiles it for every registered UK clinic? So you can choose a clinic and see what percentage of cycles made it to egg collection, embryo transfer, or to a positive pregnancy test or a live birth, and change the stats according to age group or whether you want to look at fresh or frozen cycles. And then compare it with the national average. I definitely found out from there information about cycles started to embryos implanted for my clinic and spent quite a bit of time playing around with the different stats you can find out.

@rainylake I couldnt find these stats on HFEA or on clinic websites, perhaps I have missed something

@AniSL you need to go here:
www.hfea.gov.uk/choose-a-clinic/clinic-search/
and then put in the area or postcode the clinic you're after is based in, and then if there is more than one option choose the one you want to look into.

Then scroll down and at the bottom of the box called "What is the clinic's IVF birth rate' there is a green button called 'view detailed statistics. That then lets you set the initial parameters for what data you want to look at (e.g. 'births over a 3 year period for IVF and ICSI combined for women aged 38-9 having a fresh cycle and using their own eggs' ). Then it takes you to a detailed table with lots of headings and graphs that gives you quite a lot of detail (e.g. pregnancies per cycle, live births per cycle, live births per embryo transfer, proportion of cycles cancelled before egg collection or embryo transfer and reasons for the cancellation). It gives you the actual figures as well as the percentages, and tracks it against the national average, and tells you whether any discrepancy is statistically significant. I've found it a really useful resource.

Thanks @rainylake, I was aware of that. I meant for CRGH

Ok, sorry, must have misunderstood you. But CRGH is on that list?

@rainylake oops sorry I was looking for CRGH rather than their full name. Found them

This may only be of interest to those of us who are 40+:
Thanks @rainylake I had seen the 'detailed statistics' tab before but hadn't quite worked out how to look properly. So I have now done this and data for 2012-2015 for women age 40-42 using own eggs, fresh transfer:

Live births per cycle
CRGH 25%
National average 14%
My current clinic 12%

The numbers are very small at current clinic so data not that reliable, but this does make CRGH look impressive - what Dr said they do for all women 40+ is recommend PGS so they can better select which embryos go back given the major issue is egg genetic abnormality. Because they recommend doing 2 cycles this also gives more to pick from, but would still increase overall rates per cycle. The logic makes sense.

However, this was coming in at c. £20k which is eyewateringly steep for me.

@Happyhedgehog247 wow that is a lot of money! But the difference between 14% and 25% is significant. Though if you just paid for PGS at your own clinic, presumably your chances would end up being the same, so it's just that CRGH up their statistics by doing it as standard, so I guess it's the technique rather than the clinic really. (For example, I just tried changing the data on the HFEA website from standard IVF to 'preimplantation genetic screening' and the national average for age 40-42 immediately jumped up to 30% live births).

But whether you have PGS or not, all they have to work with at the end of the day is the embryos that you have. If you went down the conventional route, you wouldn't end up with better embryos, you just wouldn't waste time and money on transferring ones that turn out to be non-viable. Which obviously could be really valuable because it would save you potentially months of time and lots of emotional energy getting invested in an embryo that has no chance of succeeding. On the other hand, for that £20k you could pay for a lot of frozen transfers and so work your way through all the embryos that look okay (and so at some point hopefully get to the ones that are in fact viable). And if you didn't have any viable embryos, presumably all the PGS could do would be to tell you that (so then you'd have nothing transferred).

So I guess that's the trade-off in working out whether the £20k is worth it.

Thanks @rainylake very helpful to get other perspectives on this and you are a PRO at mastering the HFEA data!

I agree with your logic - the challenge is my current clinic is a small NHS hospital (which I self-fund) and they don't offer PGS but they do only charge £4,200 per cycle all in and that's with ICSI too.(i live rurally so this is the only local option). I am going to continue with current clinic for this cycle I think given I only took low drugs last time and then make decision after this round. It may make sense just to jump straight to donor egg.

I am hoping this info may be helpful to other older women looking at the data and trying to work out what to do.

@HappyHedgehog247 that’s great reading on the CRGH thank you. I am in the older lady camp. It gives me some comfort to see that if this NHS round doesn’t work out I can look at a private frozen transfer (if we have some left to freeze by Friday that is) it’s not something I’ve actively looked at yet as one thing at a time...my brain won’t cope! We def can’t afford a round privately but possibly FET is more affordable....
But will def be making notes, I read you can transfer Frosties from one clinic to another and I hadn’t realised that was an option! So very happy to see that
Had an Extremely sore day today seems yday painkillers worn off! Totally paranoid about developing OHSS (they said I was a risk) but happy that 10 fertilised overnight, takes the pain away somewhat ;)
Hope everyone is fairing ok. Half way to the weekend! X
And if you have any post EC tips pls let me know...longest day ever...

@bangsaklove congratulations- 10 is really good and hopefully you will have some to freeze to take the pressure off this time.

My tips would be keep on taking painkillers - you can buy co-codamol without a prescription which is stronger than paracetamol. And drink loads of water and rest lots (make your dp run around after you and don't put a brave face on or he might not appreciate how sore it is). And try to treat yourself to something nice. It gets a bit better every day.

Thank you! I’m sure I’ll feel a bit better tomo. Drinking for England I am at the moment just means getting up every 5 seconds for bathroom!

Had my follow up today regarding loss of embies. They said it was just bad luck. Eggs were excellent quality and sperm good quality.

They have offered to transfer everything to another clinic should we choose not to cycle with them, happy to do our next cycle with them so roll on September.

They initially had me on a mild protocol because my ovarian reserve was good, but will be slightly upping it for next round.

It must be reassuring to hear that the eggs and sperm were really good quality @AniSL. It's really bad luck that it didn't work out, but hopefully it will be different next time, and I guess at least it's good to know that the basic ingredients are there. Hopefully September will be your lucky month.

Thankd @rainylake, it help stops the blame game too, although we havent outwardly said it to each other I can see the cogs ticking with DH.

They said they definitely will go with DH sperm over the donor and hope next time it will work out, we have opted not to have a transfer though but rather a freeze and transfer the following month

I know what mean @AniSL, it's so hard not to find 'fault'.

H's sperm count is considered 'within normal parameters' but to towards the low end, my AMH is low. With other partners maybe we could have a child naturally and without assistance, but together we can't. Or rather we can't guarantee to within the time available to us. It's an easier way of looking at it for us than a 'my fault, your fault' type way.

That's the official line of course. I blame myself.

Glad you got some useful and positive feedback @AniSL. Roll on September...

Thanks southernbella. Wish I was feeling more positive about it!
Hope you are feeling less sore today bangsaklove and your embryos are doing well.

@Si1ver yes I totally understand what you're saying. DH's sperm has reduced motility. Not disastrous, and we did manage to conceive naturally (albeit after 2 years of trying), but lower than ideal, and it was the only thing that they found in investigations that might explain why we weren't conceiving, even though in principle he ought to have enough motile sperm to make it possible. But I know he blamed himself and that it made him feel inadequate and like he was letting me down, and then he felt bad that if we did IVF I was going to have to go through all the drugs and interventions when it 'wasn't my fault'. At one point a few months back when I was a bit upset after my AF came, he even asked if I regretted having married him. I don't feel that way at all - even if the issue is his sperm, it's not a 'fault' situation, and who knows if it's really about his sperm or something to do with a combination of things that isn't quite working.

And I also think 'the time available' is a really helpful way about thinking about it. Maybe if we'd just kept on trying for another year or two it would have happened naturally. But maybe it wouldn't, and with me already being 38 now, the chances aren't getting any better.

I did notice that once we had started the IVF process it seemed to take a weight of DH's mind - I think having made a decision that we weren't going to try naturally any more and were going to see what the medics could do to help was quite liberating.