Babies in the waiting area...

[meadowlark3]

What do you think about babies in the waiting area of your clinic? A couple came to our clinic and brought their small toddler (perhaps 18 months) and the baby played and babbled in the main waiting area. It seemed to make lots of other patients quite uncomfortable.

It surprised me to see a small child running about and wondering what others think.

xx

Your last paragraph is an absolute joke Zoe. Poor you. how lovely...here YOU are, asking for sympathy and understanding yet you completely reduces zoe's experience to nothing...how callous of you!

So because we are parents now, we have to take your abuse and shit? Nice, really fucking nice.

zoe with respect you probably didn't experience that agony the first time around as you weren't infertile for long enough. I have to spend lots of time in the company of excited mothers on their second or third pregnancy and I have four failed rounds of ivf behind me and no child to show for any of it.

different if anyone's giving you 'abuse and shit' it's because you're behaving like a dick, I'm afraid, not because you're a parent. There have been lots of parents posting on this thread who have had no trouble being respectful and understanding and their views (and differing experiences) have been received well. If you want to talk about the logistics of childcare, the difficulties of being a parent, mum guilt, etc, there are plenty of places on MN where I'm sure you'll find like-minded people with similar experiences who can offer you support.

Different name you said "because we are parents now ".
I am a fucking parent now as well and I don't have the insensitivity and lack of empathy that you and others have displayed.

I find it amusing how you assumed that I am not a parent and again try to use the "mother/parent" comment against me.

Bip said it eloquently. I won't: piss off different.

I am not asking for understanding and empathy for me. I am asking for empathy and understanding for those whose shoes that you were once in.

Ok children can't get banned in all clinics but show some understanding as to why some people may find it difficult/upsetting/irritating.

Zippy I was rushed to surgery in the middle of the night with severe internal bleeding. I almost died and then was told my fertility had been severely compromised. I had severe depression and could barely get out of bed in the morning for over a year. Is that enough agony or should I perhaps have had a bit more?

Honestly, this ranking of pain according to your own particular experiences is pretty hard to take. I haven't been nasty to anybody. Ok my first point didn't get across what I meant - which is that parents with a toddler are also entitled to fertility treatment, which may involve them bringing a child to appointments - as eloquently as I might have liked. But equally, telling me that my feelings are a joke and that I'm having a laugh is pretty unpleasant too.

Guiness that's because she's obviously bought wholeheartedly into the belief that being a mother makes her incredibly special and far more important than barren, childless losers.

Fellow infertilites, bow down to this paragon of "betterness" and never, ever let your own needs/feelings trump the mothers! You don't have a baby, you don't know or count for shit!

Different may I ask, have you also considered choosing a dayroom at a homeless shelter to fill out your mortgage application forms and moan loudly about the price of houses? You might enjoy it.

Yes Zoe to come on to an infertility board and complain that secondary infertility is worse as it's hard being in playgroups with mums expecting number 2 makes you a joke yes.

zoe funnily I have also been rushed to hospital in an ambulance with internal bleeding. Still no child though. And aren't you tying to rank yourself as worse of than those of us who still haven't succeeded?!

Firstly I had no idea it was the infertility board, it came up on active convos. I'm sorry about that. But regardless, it was a question about children in waiting rooms. Like it or not, that kind of involves a perspective from people with children already, because some of the replies clearly (and for obvious reasons) have no clue what it's like to find temporary childcare for tinies. Ok, if it makes you feel better, yes everybody replies 'let's ban children from waiting rooms'. Even if it means that in practice you are effectively banned from fertility treatment if you already have a child.

I'm sorry I was insensitive. But jeez, I clearly don't have a monopoly on that. Fucking nasty stuff on both sides in this thread. Apparently all the multiple heaps of shit I've been through in the last 8 years is a total joke, or really, actually, not as agonising as IVF you know. I'm not about to return the nastiness, tempting though it is, so I'm hiding the thread now.

and zippy I was not trying to rank anybody - that was you.

The infertility boards pop up on active threads. Many of us with secondary infertility read and post on the boards.

It seems some posters wish to have infertility threads (like waiting rooms in fertility/miscarriage clinics) solely for people without DC, which I can understand. But this board and MN is an open forum with a range of posters and the thread clearly touched a nerve too with people with fertility issues who are lucky enough to have DC.

Zoe was just talking about her personal experience of infertility. Personal attacks on her or other posters aren't OK.

MNHQ requests for peace.

it was a question about children in waiting rooms.

Actually no it wasn't. It is a thread about babies in an infertility clinic waiting room.

Biiiiiigggggg difference.

There was a thread once about secondary infertility not being as bad as primary. Started by a woman who described herself as infertile despite having no diagnosed problem and having been trying less than two years. It hurt a lot of people including a poster who had been trying to conceive a second child for over five years and had had at that point nearly a dozen miscarriages.
Do you know what happened to those two women in the next couple of years? One had two naturally conceived pregnancies and live births. The other gave up and will now never have the baby she longed for. Do you want to guess who was who?

Threads like this are ugly on all sides. I don't think you can reasonably exclude children from fertility clinic waiting rooms. Nor can you choose to believe that women undergoing fertility treatment will find other people s children easy to see, in that or any other setting. I think the best that can be hoped for is a mutual uncomfortableness and a joint wish that everybody should get the babies they desire. Playing fertility top trumps is utterly pointless and destructive.

A horrible thread to read. Filled with anger, jealously, misunderstandings, lack of empathy and bitterness.

It's the clinics faults for not being sensitive to the situation. They are in the business and they are failing their clients. If there is no separate room available, then I think deeply unfair to think wrong to bring children.

I dont have a horse in this race, as I've no DC and not undergoing fertility treatment. However, I am shocked by some peoples' attitudes on this thread.

Waiting rooms are areas in which people are trapped. You don't know when you'll be called, and have no power to leave.

To be faced with a symbol of your most painful life experience for an unknown period of time, with no control over removing yourself from that situation (as you cannot leave) is a kind of torture. Even I can see that.

And complaining about the difficulties of arranging childcare on a thread about infertility is beyond intensive. Even if you might think it, why on earth say it?

Infertility is absolute agony and I have no doubt that a person that is already lucky enough to have a child would not have any concept of what childlessness feels like.

Babies and children should be kept away from infertility waiting rooms where at all possible. There are some very self absorbed parents about that that make every excuse not to adhere to this.

There are also some very self absorbed, silly parents posting on this thread that are missing the point entirely. I'm not going to address any of them directly as if they can't see how thick and unkind they are being then there's no point.

To all the women here that are struggling with infertility; know you aren't alone. You deserve respect and kindness.

Secondary infertility can not be compared to infertility.

GuinessPunch bullshit it can't. I had secondary infertility as my first couple of pregnancies, which were natural, had resulted in miscarriages. Whilst I'd never had a live birth, because I had been pregnant it was classified as secondary infertility so it can be compared.

The lack of empathy on this thread is astonishing. It never occurred to me to object to seeing children in the waiting area. And to be honest, as I sat there sobbing after a very painful miscarriage in a scanning unit, while DH tried to race back to the hospital as they'd taken me down for it earlier than planned, I still felt more sorry for the very heavily pregnant and utterly mortified woman in the waiting area.

Thankfully cycle 4 of IVF was successful.

Everyone deals with this in their own way but carrying the degree of anger evidenced on this thread through the process really doesn't make it any easier.

1big - I've surprised you were told yours was secondary infertility. In my experience secondary infertility refers to infertility after a live birth. I'm sorry for your losses.

1bighappyfamily I've never seen the term secondary infertility used in that context before, and many of those who include themselves amongst the barrens on these threads have had miscarriage(s). Secondary infertility surely only includes those that already have a living child.

1big what you're describing is primary infertility not secondary.

I'm happy to provide you all with a copy of my notes.

It was described as secondary. It was one of the reasons I was (initally) turned down for NHS funding.

Like I said, everyone has their own experience and journey.

Secondary infertility by definition is actually meant to be describing women who had no issues/interventions when conceiving their first but come to struggle second time round. Arguably, most of the babies and toddlers being brought into waiting rooms are more likely to be being brought there by women who have had primary infertility and are therefore able to seek help sooner/will have younger children second time round (arguably worse perhaps). I mentioned previously that I have had to take my son to a couple of appointments when no other options were available (1 at home and a few abroad) but he is 5 and can sit quietly in the corner and behave himself. Certainly no running round, being noisy etc!

I'm just trying to stand up for the "secondary infertiles" a little here as I think we are being wrongly defined and given a lot of bad press in some of the instances described that we may not actually deserve.

Personally I can't see this thread reaching a happy conclusion and that the best thing would be for it to just die a death.