Talk to me if you've decided to stop trying

[BipBippadotta]

Hello. I think I have to stop trying to have a baby or I will ruin the rest of my life. Can someone give me some advice or a handhold or something about how to do this?

I am currently waiting to miscarry for the 3rd time in under a year - this after the full-term stillbirth of my daughter 18 months ago due to a ruptured umbilical cord. I'm 39.

My life has ground to a halt. I don't want to keep tearing myself apart trying to have a baby, particularly as it becomes exponentially less and less likely to work out with every month that passes.

I do not want to use donor eggs / sperm. I don't want to adopt (obligatory explanation here: I don't think after so many traumatic losses my DH and I are robust enough to take on a child who's already had a very tough start in life, possibly with obligations to maintain contact with their family of origin. Nor could I bear trying to adopt internationally, waiting interminably, etc. I think any of these things, at the moment, could destroy our sanity and/or our marriage, and those are the only two things I have left at the moment).

Since my daughter's death I have been so focused on having another baby that I don't know how to turn things back around. I have grieved for my daughter - I have grieved like you wouldn't believe - but there has simply not been the time to sit back and come to terms with it all like everyone says you should do before trying again. Given my age, I had to try again immediately or give up the possibility of children forever - and that's a fucking hard thing to do when you've just buried your only child.

I don't know how to keep going. I can't take any pleasure in anything. I can't face seeing my friends, as I don't have anything to say for myself anymore that anyone wants to hear. The only thing that has been giving me any sort of forward momentum is trying to have a baby - and I have to make myself understand that it is not going to work.

How do you know when to stop? And when you know, how do you stop? Do I have to hit rock bottom, and have a complete nervous breakdown, before I know for certain I can't do this anymore? Is there a way to stop trying before you go mad? How do I claw my way back to something that feels like life?

This thread appeared on my Threads I'm On due to me posting a book recommendation way back on the first page. I've just read your recent posts and feel the need to comment.

Bip you and your DH sound absolutely amazing. Good luck with selling your house, finding a new home and making lots of new friends. I truly wish you all the very best

Potatoes&Icy we'll give Kirstie and Phil a run for their money..! We could do GoogleSheets with columns.. bedrooms, bathrooms, floor area, distances to amenities, estimated redecoration costs, links... [salivates]

It's funny - the above was basically one my projects in first year uni (data handling) and at the time I was SO disinterested. And now I do it for sexual pleasure fun.

Hey thanks all. Icy & Potatoes please find me a nice new house! I can start up a little colony for lepers barrens and anyone else who eventually decides they can't be fucked with this anymore is welcome to come and join me.

Shitting ourselves at the moment, as a photographer from the estate agent is coming tomorrow morning. We have only just now decided to have a look at the photos she's taken of other properties and have realised she's a fan of the EXTREME close-up of period features... so we've been frantically dusting all our ceiling roses and bits of fancy coving and polishing the fuck out of the fireplace. Am also now dearly wishing we'd not tried to fashion a fireplace grate ourselves out of some wire when we were unable to find one of the right size. It seemed very resourceful at the time but I now see with unforgiving clarity how it makes us look like lunatics.

We are babes in the woods when it comes to property. This was our first house, and we tried to do everything ourselves (sanding floors etc) without actually knowing how, and then ran out of steam halfway through. And now can't be arsed to give it a massive overhaul when we just want to get the fuck out. Oh well.

Bip don't worry about the close ups, the hipsters who come round will want to "get the feel" and come round, make sure you're NOT in for any viewings, people picking through your life (with babies in tow) will be horrific.

With regards to out of london, when my granny was alive & living with mum & stepdad, mum had to move for 8 months to Portsmouth because her new house basically had to be rebuilt. She said Portsmouth was wonderful and she and gran hated kids. Also apparently it gets lots of lovely sunny days.

m.zoopla.co.uk/for-sale/details/39532640?search_identifier=eb619ffb398a8b9c6592bf3037188121

I'll stop now!!

Ffs. Estate agent around this morning whittering away about how it's his wife's last say at work before mat leave, he's so excited, etc. Then photographer shows up, butch lesbian in her early 20s, and I (in my young-ist / heterocentric way) thought, 'at least we won't get baby chat from her.' But of course she & her partner just had twins, blah blah blah, so tired, have to get 2 of everything, blah. Fixed smiles, hollow congratulations, lame jokey cliches about sleeplessness & responsibility. Sooner I fuck off out of this breeding colony the better.

BIp. It was bad enough for you yesterday, without round two today! I hope the weekend is much calmer for you X Things like this really shake me. I am pleased for other people but feel bitter and angry and sad about my own loss, it just reinforces our loss somehow other people's good news especially when our reality has turned grim.

Holy shit. I'm on the last day of a 4 day conference today & the grey-haired lady on my course who I'd thought was a bit menopausally pudgy discloses she's actually 4 months pregnant with her 4th child. She's 45. Everyone having pregnancy chats. It's fucking EVERYWHERE. How does this keep happening? How do I get away?? Aaarrrrrgh.

I think I should get cracking designing a "barren and proud" t-shirt. We can wear them while we house hunt for you.

Was watching the thread the other day about the woman whose neighbour was a convicted paedophile. Posters were saying 'these people shouldn't be allowed to live near children', and others were responding 'but where could they possibly go where they could be 100% sure there were no children living nearby?'

All I could think was, if anyone has the answer to that question, please could they let me know so I can buy a house there? Because in my present state of mind I genuinely wouldn't mind living in a town full of convicted sex offenders so long as it meant I would never again be asked 'whose mum are you?' at the summer street party.

Bip X. I know what you mean about escaping to a child free place. Although I have dd's following my late loss I just wanted to slide off of the planet and be left alone. I just wanted to escape and still do to some extent. I am a sahm so my world consists of being surrounded by pregnant women when I take DD out to anything. Don't get me wrong I am grateful to have my dd's but I do get similar feelings of wanting to escape. I find myself isolated and lack friends who can spare time to chat and because of my circumstances don't really meet anyone to talk about anything other than children. My mind is not occupied either on top of feelings of isolation so I tend to dwell a lot I wish I had the answer for you Bip X. Keep posting, I love to read your posts although I'm truly really sorry about your losses and the devastation that has followedX

This any use?

www.ons.gov.uk/file?uri=/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/livebirths/datasets/birthsbyareaofusualresidenceofmotheruk/2014/areaofusualresidencetablesfinal_tcm77-417123(1).xls

Thanks, Albertcampionscat. Have now also checked out the lowest birth rates in the world, and am thinking I could happily live in Monaco. Or Japan.

Monkeytree your situation sounds like an absolute living hell. At least I can always cultivate a reputation as a spiteful, child-hating bitch in the hope that people will eventually give up trying to share their heartwarming water-birth stories with me. Much harder to pull off the Cruella deVil act when you've got children and can't afford to alienate their friends' / schoolmates' parents, however much you'd like them all to fuck off. I find reading novels really helps, escapism-wise. Have you read anything by Marylinne Robinson? 'Gilead' and 'Lila' are really gorgeous, moving books - and even though there is a baby born in one of them ('Lila') there's also some frank and very touching discussion of the death of a baby. I also got really into a series of books by Elena Ferrante recently - 4 of 'em, starting with 'My Brilliant Friend' - mad & relentless but totally absorbing. Of course (of course!) the 3rd of the 4 books is super pregnancy-focused. But I was able to get through it because I was so engrossed in the characters.

Yes, it's funny you should mention reading novels as escapism, I have been doing a lot of reading too lately. I will look up those books you've mentioned although not sure pregnancy related ones are for me at the moment. I'm reading the Hamish Macbeth series by M C Beaton. Death of a sweep, Death of a maid, Death of yesterday. The word death seems to crop up in every single title, I think I might be a bit fixated! Changing the subject, I tidied out a drawer today (my drawer for personal type stuff) and found a 12 week scan of my late ds, it sent me reeling but strangely I couldn't cry. Maybe I was scared I wouldn't stop. I don't have a memory box and photos of ds are kept at the hospital. I have not seen or handled his little urn, I just can't face it, I have this thought that he can be cremated (again) along with me. Sorry this has all turned very morbid and hope it doesn't cause any further distress, I just don't talk about these things.....Yes been to Monaco briefly, not really child friendly, not been to Japan though, maybe the busiest places are the best and not actually the most deserted....interesting. Japan could be a bit of an extreme move though!

I just wanted to say that having had a stillbirth (my first child) too at the same age as you, the pain is just terrible, and then 3 miscarriages on top of that. I really think you must just be emotionally and physically at rock bottom.

I can't bear it when people tell you it's because you aren't relaxing etc., it's insensitive, terribly rude and probably wrong.

I am someone who kept going (I now have two healthy children now in my mid 40's and realise how lucky I am). However, I have girlfriends (late 40's and 50's) who haven't had longed for children and whilst they have all grieved, in the longer term they have also all managed to find ways of reconciling this, including in forming new relationships with other children and young people.

Please take very good care of yourself at such a difficult time.

Thanks, Lucy. It is pretty awful. And the relaxation thing really is the pinnacle of idiocy. No amount of relaxation can re-arrange the chromosomes in my eggs or my husband's sperm. I don't know why this is so hard for people to understand. If relaxation had any effect on the information contained in your genes, or the number of chromosomes you have, then surely you could meditate your way free of Parkinson's, or Down's Syndrome. If you relaxed enough, and in the right way, you could presumably transform yourself into a tiger or a warthog or a banana.

People either have a terrifyingly poor grasp of biology, or just don't think at all about whether what they're saying makes any sense. Ugh.

Lucy I got so carried away by my rage about relaxation-mongerers that I forgot to say how sorry I am to hear about the loss of your first child. It's awful at any point but I think there's something particularly brutal about losing your first in terms of what it does to your confidence as a woman & a mother. I'm pleased you've had 2 healthy children since then - those pregnancies can't have been easy.

Forgive the oversharing, but I did the hidden infection test at Serum in the end and it turns out I've got chlamydia. And ureaplasma. Not sure what this means in terms of whether we keep trying but there does seem to be some evidence that ureaplasma in men fucks sperm up fairly badly & can cause fertilisation failure. Glad, in a way, to know this but also thinking 'here we go again', as I can hear the unstoppable hope machine grinding into action once more. Ugh.

Unstoppable hope machine
Ain't that the truth

Hi Bip, just wanted to let you know that I have been thinking about you. I hope the potential move away from bugaboo central is progressing nicely.

I get what you mean about the unstoppable hope machine. There is something about a diagnosis that can get you up again. I know I would be thinking, oh, there's an infection, treat the infection, eliminate the infection, try again without this barrier in place.

And then you begin the whole cycle again, with all the other risk factors in place that were already there. It sucks.

Thanks, Yorkshire. House hunting has taken a turn for the better and with any luck we'll have an offer accepted on our favourite house by Monday. It's been unexpectedly cheering to see the insides of other people's houses. If you've gone through life with that low-level suspicion that you're a bit odd and different from everyone else, there is nothing that puts paid to this feeling more quickly than seeing how other people live, and realising you can't come close to their freakiness. I have seen things you wouldn't believe. In a way it's lovely - behind the facade of every samey, unassuming Victorian terrace lurks a unique little den of bonkersness and depravity.

Anyway. Antibiotics took a while to come through but I'm starting tomorrow. DH has been on his for nearly a week. I've not even been thinking about the ttc repercussions of all this, but am looking forward to not having to wee every half hour (which of course may not be a result of infection so much as age). Fortunately I'm at a point where the house hunt is too exciting to think about anything else. I'm hoping this bodes well for the rest of the childless life. A change of scene is going to be really invigorating, I think.

BibBippadotta I just wanted to say how much I've enjoyed reading your posts. I know that sounds bizarre but I'm at such a loss at the minute and so tired of all the ttc crap that it's so refreshing to read your honest, witty and touching posts. I am so sorry for your loss. We've been trying for over 5yrs, I've just turned 39, my hubby is 33. Nothing happened for over 3 yrs despite chlomid, tamoxifen and all the usual tests / procedures. Then I've had 3 miscarriages in 18 months, 2 mmc and 1 natural, all at around 6-8 wks. We've since had every test possible and there's nothing wrong with either of us, which is good but so frustrating. I'm really struggling at the minute, I'm so angry and teary all the time. I'm so sick of all the miracle baby stories. The 'it'll happen' 'just relax' 'it'll be your time soon' bullshit! The reality is time is running out for me. Even if we got pregnant now, I'd be 50yrs old by the time the baby would be 10yrs old. Is it fair to the child to have an old mum. And the adoption thing? Do I give up on my dream of my own child and adopt a child just so I can be a mum, or do I remain childless? I don't know if I have it in me to keep on ttc anymore. I'm taking steriods day 14-28 prescribed by my consultant. But I'm so sick of pumping myself full of drugs. We can't have IVF on the NHS because I'm not classed as infertile anymore, I have to go a full yr without conceiving before we're eligible which is next March. I'll be 40 next May. Anyway, sorry for the rant. I just wanted to let you know I appreciate you sharing your story as it makes me feel less alone, thanks and hope you're ok xx

I realise that this is a bit of an attempt at a thread resurrection but I found this today & it really resonated and made me laugh in places too, the kind of laughs that only bitter old barrens understand.

Your collective experiences are heartbreaking. Bip if you're reading I hope that your house move went ahead okay. I too have really found comfort in your words. You've managed to express so well what for me is such a jumbled, disordered bag of shitty thoughts and emotions.

My story is unexplained infertility for over six years. Extraordinarily I don't know anymore exactly how long it's been. You imagine that the exact duration would be seared onto your brain but for me it simply feels like I've been in this limbo for forever. I've had one failed go at IVF and one failed FET.

I've been trying to move on and draw a line under it all before I combusted under the weight of it. Strangely there seem to be few resources for those of us who want to try and move on, hence I was so drawn to this thread. MN seems full of "trying" threads. Giving up seems to be almost a bit taboo, like we are supposed to keep going until our ovaries gasp their last.

I thought I was doing okay-ish. Just a constant sense of gnawing emptiness and deep, deep anger rather than the constant snotty crying fits and brain in relentless overdrive. Progress indeed! Except today I got a letter through the post from my sister telling me that she is pregnant. She has a grown up son already (so I thought I'd dodged this bullet) and it is a new relationship for her. I am totally floored and I can't believe the cowardice in sending me a letter that I opened alone. Truthfully I can't believe the injustice.
What the fuck do I do? I can't deal with this at all & have spent the day crying (and eating Twixes. Salty, wet Twixes). Do you ever feel like you are on a version of the Truman Show? Sets off to Paddy Power for the foreseeable

Hi bastardly, sorry you've found yourself in this shit, with an epic baby bomb to boot. I'm trying to move on too, my husband is infertile and we've exhausted all the ways to make/extract sperm so it's over. I can recommend a book by Jody Day called something like living the life unexpected. It really helped my come to terms with why I feel so shit about not being a mother, such as understanding all the stupid family based adverts and media and how society and media define a woman by motherhood and not for being a fucking human being. There is also Gateway women, a website for childless women cos we need to get away from babies and new mothers. I have also started just telling people who ask if I have kids "no we can't have children". Feels more real and definate, and shuts the nosey fuckers up while giving just the right amount of embarrassment. Hope that helps a bit. I know it sometimes feels that everyone has their happy family and it's only you that doesn't, but it isn't just you. You're not alone :). Also, twixs taste fit salty or not, tuck in!

Thanks Laura for your message. I was feeling so low yesterday and really needed to just tell somebody. I am so sorry that you too are in the same shitty boat but reminding me that I am not alone was a real comfort. Thank you. I like your style about telling people straight that you can't have children evil grin I think that there is enormous pressure to keep your infertility to yourself. I actually feel very stigmatised by it. I will check out the book you recommend. I don't even watch the bloody adverts anymore because I am so sick of this twee image of motherhood being rammed down my throat. As for my A-bomb, I feel so numb about my sister's news with intermittent raging. I can't seem to mentally straighten myself because this is forever. Whether I like it or not her baby is here and I have to live with this. I really resent the fact that I will have to just suck this up too. I am so sick of being the one smiling like a loon pretending that everything is okay when inside I'm dying a thousand deaths. Shit, I'm going to need a lot of Twix

Just checking back in - I got predictably drawn back into the TTC vortex & felt a bit of a fraud coming here. You go 2 or 3 months without that regular ritual of failure and before you know it you've got a taste for it again. Now I've remembered how pointless and depressing it all is and am back to giving up.

I'm also pretty frank about telling people I'm barren. When we were house hunting a while back, one estate agent was fucking unbelievable:

'So do you two have children?'
'No.'
'Well, for when you do, you'll want to know about the schools...'
'No thanks, it's OK.'
'You'll want to know for when the time comes to start your family!'
'We aren't going to start a family.'
'What, ever? You never know what might happen...'
'We're infertile.'
'Really? How do you know?'

And on and on. I wanted to call her agency and complain. She was one of those endless talkers and pointer-outers, too. Couldn't just leave us to it to walk through the house. Ugh.

And why, WHY does everyone who has children plaster the entire house with photos of them? And on a related (but slightly less relevant) note, why do so many people have enormous semi-naked selfies mounted on the wall in the bedroom?? I saw so many home-owners frolicking in boudoir-wear and bikinis I didn't know where to look. Particularly when it was the home-owner herself showing me around.

K8Liz I'm the same age as you - I had a particularly fun time last month when it became clear I was officially not pregnant in time to have a baby before turning 40. I know there are plenty of older mothers out there who do just fine, but I can't help but think they're a good deal less knackered and broken than I am at this point.

Laura wow, I am almost impressed by the extreme cowardice of the epistolary baby bomb. Did she write it on parchment with a goose quill? Have you spoken to her since? I still haven't met my brother's second child, born nearly a year ago. Have no particular desire to. Maybe I just won't. We're not terribly close and live in different countries so that makes things easier. Twix are a comfort food of choice for me too. In fact I may go out and get some now. Bon appetit!