Talk to me if you've decided to stop trying

[BipBippadotta]

Hello. I think I have to stop trying to have a baby or I will ruin the rest of my life. Can someone give me some advice or a handhold or something about how to do this?

I am currently waiting to miscarry for the 3rd time in under a year - this after the full-term stillbirth of my daughter 18 months ago due to a ruptured umbilical cord. I'm 39.

My life has ground to a halt. I don't want to keep tearing myself apart trying to have a baby, particularly as it becomes exponentially less and less likely to work out with every month that passes.

I do not want to use donor eggs / sperm. I don't want to adopt (obligatory explanation here: I don't think after so many traumatic losses my DH and I are robust enough to take on a child who's already had a very tough start in life, possibly with obligations to maintain contact with their family of origin. Nor could I bear trying to adopt internationally, waiting interminably, etc. I think any of these things, at the moment, could destroy our sanity and/or our marriage, and those are the only two things I have left at the moment).

Since my daughter's death I have been so focused on having another baby that I don't know how to turn things back around. I have grieved for my daughter - I have grieved like you wouldn't believe - but there has simply not been the time to sit back and come to terms with it all like everyone says you should do before trying again. Given my age, I had to try again immediately or give up the possibility of children forever - and that's a fucking hard thing to do when you've just buried your only child.

I don't know how to keep going. I can't take any pleasure in anything. I can't face seeing my friends, as I don't have anything to say for myself anymore that anyone wants to hear. The only thing that has been giving me any sort of forward momentum is trying to have a baby - and I have to make myself understand that it is not going to work.

How do you know when to stop? And when you know, how do you stop? Do I have to hit rock bottom, and have a complete nervous breakdown, before I know for certain I can't do this anymore? Is there a way to stop trying before you go mad? How do I claw my way back to something that feels like life?

for you. I don't know what the answer is. I was stuck in the TTC / MC cycle, but had no pregnancy for the last 12 months, maybe due to age. I'm having a break and trying again in a few months. I don't want to look back and resent that I didn't do everything I could to have another baby (barring IVF because we can't afford it and already have a DD by some miracle, so won't get funding).

I'm so sorry for what you're going through.

Another book suggestion - you might try reading 'The Next Happy' by Tracey Cleantis. It's basically a book about how, although the prevailing narrative is 'never give up on your dreams', you sometimes do in fact need to do exactly that, and how it can be a positive thing. The book references lots of different types of situation, but the author herself experienced infertility and eventually decided to stop treatments and move on to the next part of her life, so that specific situation comes up quite a bit.

Dear Bip, I have been following your story on the other thread and I almost want it to happen for you more than I do for myself. If thoughts and hopes could do it...

My honest opinion is that you don't sound ready to stop, yet.

I am 40 and feel as if I am in my last few months of trying (secondary infertility, 3+ years, un-explained, no reason whatsoever, but ££££ later no success either). I thank god for my child every single day, but still at some point in time I will need to ask for a coil/ring/implant and put the emotional uncertainty of this phase of my life behind me - but I need to wait until I feel that there is no other option. I don't think that you are there yet.

Thanks so much, partic those of you who have been there and come out 'the other side'. Sometimes it's just so good to know it's possible - and to know there are different ways of getting there. And those are lovely words, LH - I'd be glad to chat on other threads if I decide to keep going. Tammy will def check out Gateway women.

I think the trouble is at the moment that I don't know if I can bear any more treatments; freezing embryos and waiting until I feel ready doesn't really get me anywhere if I'm only producing 1 or 2 embryos per cycle, and they all turn out to be as genetically mangled as those that have come before. And I'll still be having to put myself through all the shit of seeing how few follicles I produce, how few fertilise, etc. Definitely not interested in donor gametes, surrogacy, adoption. At all. I think if I were willing to consider those things I'd be at a different point in all this from where I am now, and probably clearer about what the next steps would be.

I think it's a balance of which I could more easily forgive myself for: giving up trying, or spending all my money and the last of my faintly youthful years trying to achieve something that is, realistically / statistically speaking, hugely unlikely to happen and which may well wear out any sympathy my friends & family have left for me. Ugh! It's all just decisions between equally unpalatable options.

It is meant with the best intentions, and I know that it is not at all helpful in the slightest.

I've a few family members that have struggled with infertility for years ( a couple of them have miracle IVF babies) and a couple of friends who have battled infertility. Of the ones that have in the end conceived naturally, they have all noted that it happened when least expected - not saying this is how it happens or that if the op does this she will fall pregnant - what I'm trying to say is for her to go easy on herself and don't give up. If these friends and family did fall pregnant due to less stress, overthinking etc, we'll never know but in their hearts they believe that it's how they ended up with their must wanted bundles.

Again like I said, scientifically not healpful but does give a little bit of hope that it could still happen and your never too old.

Just a random idea - is there a way of going through a cycle and asking to receive less information? eg. Sonographer just scans you, doesn't talk about follices; no results from sperm sample...Just ask for Drs to decide on best course of action?

Op I am so sorry to hear of your journey. I had secondary unexplained fertility. After 3 years of nothing (except doctor appointments, prodding, poking, cycle tracking and many tears) we did it, I finally conceived, I was so happy. At 8 weeks I lost the baby.

But now I knew I could conceive I was on a mission determined to conceive again the next month focused everything on it and when my period came I broke.

I had lost 3 years of my life to this cause i had become obsessed, stayed in a job i hated because the maternity was good, sobbed through birthdays and holidays cause my period arrived, avoided pregnant friends and newborns and I just couldn't take it anymore. Someone said to me when it hurts more to try than to stop you will know it is time.

We made the decision to take a break for 3 months to heal and discuss stopping properly after that. We didn't even have sex so there would be no chance (and was nice after 3 years of every other day like robots). We talked, laughed and I stopped crying when my period arrived.

We did get dc2 but he was not a miracle baby, we made the decision to give 1 more year of trying but taking the break had made me realise that if it didn't work we would be OK.

Ultimately only you will know when it is time to stop trying but you don't need to decide today the only advice I can offer is to give yourself a break and let yourself heal a little.

Great question to ask Bip. I feel like after a decade of ttc and now rocketing towards 42, at some point very soon I am going to have to actually practice some acceptance that it's never going to happen for me. I'm probably partially there already really. The awful gamut of emotions you have to wade through as more and more shit is thrown your way, and as your prospects get bleaker. I feel like the horror of it all softens with time though. I remember hyperventilating when I got my AMH result - this was after years of ttc and then being in the nhs system for an age. I used to howl on my drive home from work everyday, screaming and raging at the world with snot running down my face . I was regularly a crazy fucking banshee. Now I feel much calmer about the whole thing. Often utterly depressed and broken. But calmer

It's so hard to know what the best thing to do is when you're in the middle of the whirlwind, especially when you're totally fucking emotionally drained and you've no idea who you are any more. I think I'm somewhere down the path of acceptance but I'm still going through the motions. I'm making sure the childless me of tomorrow has no beef with the childless me of today. I want to make sure I feel like I've tried everything in my power / emotional capability / financial capability and then perhaps that will give me some peace. I've previously been told there's almost no hope and it really does take a lot to claw your way back from yet another failure.....but I've set myself an IVF limit (just about to start another cycle now) and when I'm done, I guess that will be the telling time.

I'm so so sorry to hear of your stillbirth, I think it's just about the cruelest thing that can happen to a human. It's utterly heartbreaking and I can't imagine how difficult that would be to work through. I get so angry thinking about the futility of it all. You should have your daughter. The world is so fucking cruel.

On a practical side, I don't know your history but with multiple miscarriages I've heard that karyotype tests can be carried out (blood test) which may reveal a problem.

I think I read on another thread too that you had low fertilisation with ICSI? My dh was diagnosed (after our 2nd IVF of zero fertilisation) with lacking PLC zeta in his sperm - necessary for activating the egg. 50% of people with low or no fertilisation with ICSI are found to have this issue. Now with a fix we get almost 100% fertilisation which is amazing.

Ahhh sorry. Really long post. Thanks for sharing. I feel you articulate so well how I feel. I'm sorry you're going through so much x

Just popping back on after a while out (believe it or not I'm actually on holiday! This is as close I get to relaxing... through to be fair it is hard to relax when you know you're going to miscarry & have no idea when it's going to happen).

Wootywoo you sound so remarkably sane after so long trying! Good luck to you. I have been in the screaming banshee phase. Now I'm in the numb, really really sick of this shit phase. We had karyotypes and were all fine. That's one of the shit things about this - everything is clinically completely fine (AMH, FSH, etc all great, tubes clear, no uterine adhesions, no PCOS, no endo, etc) - - except that DH has very low morphology and I'm old. Never even heard of PLC zeta though - just goes to show no matter how long you've spent on the internet & reading obstetric journals there is still more to learn!! What was the fix, may I ask?

W33xxx I know you mean well, but other people's luck doesn't tell me anything about mine. I don't want to be given hope for a miracle at this stage; there's enough of that sort of hope-mongering all over the rest of the internet / world. What I'm trying to get a sense of is how people have made the transition from the sort of hope that keeps you trapped and punishing yourself for years, to the hope for a happy and fulfilled life without children. It's simply not true that you're 'never too old'; 'too old' happens at different times for different people with different bodies, and you can only find out when you've hit too old by trying and failing for so long that you've broken your heart and wasted your best years. I'm trying to see if there's a shortcut to accepting I'm 'too old', by my own body's terms, without wasting too much more time proving it to myself.

Merde - I know exactly what you mean about the people who desperately want you to keep trying vs the people who want you to give up! Everyone's got an opinion! One friend (who I no longer see) gave me a long sermon after miscarriage number 2 post-stillbirth about how I didn't have to have a baby just because everyone else did. As though that might never have occurred to me and I was just living my life on Stepford Wife autopilot.

Kewcumber - yy to the horror of living in limbo forever just on the offchance you're one of the lucky .0001% whose dogged persistence pays off.

Pinkheart I'm so sorry to hear about the loss of your baby - it always helps to hear from other people who've been through this.

Thanks, all for the book recs!

The thing I'm always amazed by about people who accidentally get pregnant after they've given up 'trying' is.... they still have sex! I am genuinely worried that if we give up trying, there will be no reason to have a sex life anymore - and our bodies will be so tainted with the self-hatred that comes with so much medical interference and failure and disappointment that we won't be able to feel desire (/desirable) anymore. Anyone have any sex tips for the post-fertile couple...?!

My god you write beautifully Bip. In your last post you have articulated so many complex sentiments and fears with astonishing clarity and insight. After reading that I understand so much better.

I suppose it comes down to whether you are ready for this bit:

"What I'm trying to get a sense of is how people have made the transition from the sort of hope that keeps you trapped and punishing yourself for years, to the hope for a happy and fulfilled life without children. It's simply not true that you're 'never too old'; 'too old' happens at different times for different people with different bodies, and you can only find out when you've hit too old by trying and failing for so long that you've broken your heart and wasted your best years. I'm trying to see if there's a shortcut to accepting I'm 'too old', by my own body's terms, without wasting too much more time proving it to myself."

You make such perfect sense here and I have certainly learned from it. It probably touches more of a chord for those of us over 40.

While of course you want to look back and be sure you did absolutely everything in your power to have a child, you also want to look back and be sure you did everything in your power to maximise your happiness and life satisfaction. The point will arrive for all of us when these two aims are no longer convergent.

Re the sex life....dollops of testosterone gel helped get me back on track after 8 months of post natal depression. Sounds trite but don't knock it till you've tried it...:-)

Op, I am so sorry for your losses. .

My story is slightly different in that mine was a case of secondary infertility. We had ds after thirteen months of trying so I did anticipate that perhaps it could take a bit longer with a second. When DS was two we therefore decided to start TTC again, thinking that it might take about a year or so.

The year came and went, I had a couple of missed periods, even an appointment with a GP where she told me she would eat her hat if I wasn't pregnant even though tests were showing negative, etc. My ramblings are all there on the TTC boards somewhere.

Anyway after about two years of trying I told myself and everyone else that I was going to stop trying and accept that it just wasn't meant to be. Of course that wasn't what happened. I didn't use contraception and of course in my heart of hearts I hoped every month that this would be the month. Still did pregnancy tests from time to time, told myself that given I'd decided to relax it would happen when least expected, like with all those other women who had a friend of a friend it had happened to. I even sold all the baby furniture believing somewhere deep down that this was all I had to do to fall pregnant. .

Then, I went away for a week without my dh. Ironically my period was late just before I went, and I waited with anticipation, because I needed my period to come. It didn't, for days. I was sure, this was the time. And then I did a test. It was negative. And my period arrived within a couple of hours. I actually got to a stage during this point where I used to consider taking a pregnancy test to be a bit of a switch for my periods if they were late. .

And during that week away I had a sudden lightbulb moment. I realised that I'd spent the past six years of my life hoping, waiting, wondering, telling the world that I'd stopped trying but actually holding on to some invisible and impossible hope that it might happen when in reality I knew that I was now facing a nine year age gap between children and I'd lost my identity. And I realised that was it.

I came home and told my DH that I wanted to stop trying, wanted to start using contraception, and wanted to go back to work. So we did.

Me and H are no longer together now, and ironically he has just had a baby with someone else. But I am totally at peace with my own decision to stop. I do now have a new partner, and in moments of thought I think about what if we had a child together..... But I am 42 now, and I look at other people with screaming tantrum ing babies and toddlers, and then I think about eXH and the fact he will be 60 by the time his baby turns eighteen, and actually, while the fleeting thought of a baby makes me think for a second, the actual reality of having one is something I am quite done with. I might get a kitten though. .

Only you will know when it is right to stop. Everyone has the right intention when they tell you to stop/relax/keep trying/never give up hope, but ultimately your story is yours alone and only you can write the ending. And even if you stopped this month you can go back next month, or perhaps you won't, and time will give you your conclusion. But whatever you decide, and however that decision comes, be kind to yourself. .

We had several months of no sex after stopping TTC. Then, gradually we rediscovered sex without TTC and it was great (sorry TMI). There was a few tears and alot of sadness but also a sense of freedom and rediscovering each other without an agenda.

Oh and YY, other peoples luck doesn't mean anything except to make me feel unlucky and like I'm not part of the lucky 'club'.

Fact - it doesn't work out for everyone and that doesn't make you a failure. Neither does stopping before you are utterly destroyed by the experience.

I'd much rather hear that there are other people who didn't get their much wanted baby and not only coped but thrived individually and as a couple afterwards. That is much more important and relevant to me.

We are evidence of that. It can be done, you can be happy and content afterwards.

merdeAlor - you should adopt, according to the world and his wife, adoption is a sure fire cure for infertility. It's a wonder any children are adopted at all given how everyone gets pregnant as soon as they get on a prep course

Oh you're so right kewcumber. It's the way some people suggest adoption as if you've never even considered it before that makes me angry. I've got very good at a polite "thanks but that's really personal subject that I don't wish to discuss" while silently wanting to kick people.

Not to mention the "my aunt did this and then she got pregnant" and "just be positive". Yes, that will cure my endometriosis.

merde thanks for sharing your experience.

There is an article in this month's Red magazine about the woman who set up Gatway women, so it is all about life after infertility. I found it helpful even though I am still trying.

Gateway. I am trying to MN using contact lenses...

People really don't understand statistics that if you have unexplained infertility that statistically if you don't take precautions for 20 years there will be a percentage of people in that group who get pregnant. It's not a miracle, it's statistics.

I am very happy parenting DS with his issues from his early start I love him and I wouldn't have things any different now. But I'm not so arrogant as to think that having a child is the only way to have a happy and fulfilling life - in fact I think the research doesn't show that having children makes you any happier overall.

Of course that's no consolation if what you have been consumed with for years is having a family.

I think the thing that's particularly difficult for me is that I can see how I could have had a happy child-free life, with only a few regrets, if I'd never tried at all. It's the trying that's made this so awful.

It took us years to ttc - DH and I both had fairly unhappy family lives growing up and the prospect of introducing an unpredictable third party into the only stable relationship we'd ever had seemed risky. But we also had some hope that we could be good parents, and that we could make our own family loving and peaceful in ways that our families of origin weren't.

We tried for 2 years, and were on the verge of giving up (disappointed, but not eviscerated by sadness as we are now) when we conceived our daughter. Sometimes I wish we'd given up a month sooner and spared ourselves all this. We'd always promised ourselves that if it happened, it happened - and if it didn't we wouldn't torture ourselves with fertility treatments, as we'd seen how miserable they made most people we knew. That all went out the window after our daughter died.

In my more paranoid & irrational moments I think that we've brought this on ourselves by wanting something we're not allowed to have. In persisting in trying to get our way, we've provoked the wrath of a vengeful god, who will punish us with death after death until we accept our lot. I know that's mad (and shows my lack of any sort of religious education) - but it's how it feels sometimes - that if I don't stop trying now, more and more horrible things will happen. I thought for a few days last week that this pregnancy was ectopic, and I thought 'that's it, I've finally done it - I wouldn't learn my lesson and now I'm going to have to die.' I suspect this means I have probably hit rock bottom and gone crazy.

I can see how I might once have been happy without children - but I've blown it by having a child who died. By then having so many miscarriages. By trying too much. I can imagine eventually having a life where I do things I enjoy, and feel useful and more or less content, but I will always be haunted by sadness. I also don't know how I can get from here - where all my life is about is loss and desperation - to there, where other things can seem important and worthwhile to me again. I guess that will just take time.

I'm so sorry for all your losses 💐

I'm not in exactly the same situation as I have dd1. However, after 2 late-ish losses I have decided to stop trying now.

I have no advice but I just wanted to say I kind of understand the need to stop before tearing yourself and your sanity apart.

I guess that will just take time

Yes and you won't be the same person that you once were, you won't be carefree and naive about the harsh reality of what can happen in life.

But things will find their own place in time for you I hope. There's really no rushing it. I think you just have to be kind to yourself and to each other.

Hi bip sorry you've had such an awful time

I've asked myself a thousand times how to give up ttc? I don't think I can do it myself, I think I will keep on hoping i will get pregnant until I get to menopause (surely not far away now I am in my forties).

I have spent over 10 years now ttc, achieving several miscarriages and then one amazing daughter conceived by ICSI after 8 years ttc. After DD was born we kept trying but just got more mcs. We decided to stop having cycles and ran out of money and my mental health improved a lot, I am much calmer. It has been good to move on.

But now DD is old enough to beg for a baby brother/sister an we are going for another cycle, I am probably too old but I need to try anyway and have saved up some more money . It will definitely be our last go (although I said that last time, and the time before )

I suppose what I'm trying to say is that no decision is absolute. It is alright to stop trying now and if you decide later to try again that is ok too.

I'm not sure if I'm saying the right thing here but reading your last post it seems very clear to an outsider that you are dealing with 2 quite separate but sad issues and it will be very difficult to make any decisions about one whilst the other is so ever present. Your grief is still raw and instead of allowing yourself to grieve for the loss of your child, you've put your body and mind through the crazy world of IVF. Understandably, given your age and overwhelming desire to have a baby but still it doesn't allow you the headspace needed. I really think you need to work through your grief because even if you do go on to have a successful pregnancy, you may be shocked to discover that much as you love the new baby, your grief for the child you lost remains as strong. I'm sounding glib and I don't mean to. It just comes across so strongly that you ache for a baby not to fill a gap in your life left by infertility but rather one left by loss. I am so sorry for your loses.

Hi Bip
Firstly I am so sorry for the loss of your daughter and mc's you have endured. I mc my son at 20 weeks last year and know that this will forever stay with me. Sorry for all the other ladies here that have had losses too x

I do have dc's but have had infertility issues and had dd2 at 39 with a fsh through the roof and low amh. I do consider she was a miracle but agree that it is difficult to live in hope, hoping for a miracle. I grieved for 2.5 years before she came along, having shut the book on having a second dc and this grief stays with me so much so that I have set up an infertility support group for others going through this devastatingly lonely and isolating time.

When ds died my immediate reaction was to replace the loss by any means necessary including adoption, donor eggs etc. Now I realise he can never be replaced, I have not had a rainbow baby in this respect and envy women who do despite already having my dc's. I am fast approaching 42 and realising this is enough but I can't seem to let go. I feel like I'm playing with fire and the thought of becoming pregnant again and losing again terrifies me but still I keep trying. I admire women who say this is enough and move on but I suspect I will keep trying until the bitter end when I enter menopause (I have been told I am due an early one). For me, I have a real sense of failing or having failed the infertility and then the loss has really knocked me sideways and battered my self esteem which was already battered anyway. I'm scared of living with regret of having not tried further down the line. Soon I will need to consider why I am ttc again and hope it is for the right reasons and not just about me trying to prove something to myself and others. Most likely it is this and also trying to fill the gap which has been left in my heart by ds. I would not consider a member of the support group to have failed, I would have compassion and see them as the wonderfully interesting individuals they are, I am hard on myself. I compare myself to all the super fertile women out there, I live in a village where families of four are commonplace. But infertility and ttc can be an obsession, I truly believe that. Bip you have conceived but have endured so many losses, have any reasons been given as to why? For me, there was no reason, it is all so senseless and pointless, I'm asking this wondering if anything can be suggested in helping you stay pregnant as it appears you are able to become pregnant which is something I have struggled with. At my age I knew straight away that there would be no time to grieve so ttc straight away, nearly a year on things seemed to have calmed a little but the sense of loss is forever with me but I don't regret having tried. The whole thing and the past year seems like a massive blur of hope and disappointment and major sadness and going through the motions, life can drain away and I am trying (with much resistance from myself) to plan some other things.

Your post is very thoughtful, you have been able to put into words difficult questions. I hope more ladies post give their insights as to how they have resumed life after infertility and loss. I have read the gateway women book by Jody Day also Life Without Baby by Lisa Mantersfield (both ladies have set up websites containing blogs etc) which seem a good resource, I have read these in relation to trying to pick up the pieces after loss. I will continue to watch this thread with interest x

bip I've been following your journey on the other thread. I'm so sorry for your losses. I need to figure out how to stop too. I'm in the middle of a natural cycle ivf. And I'm ready to do it one more time after that. Success rates are unbelievably low and treatment at age 41 is no longer sustainable. I also need to find a way to make a different life. I'm marking my place and will be back to read all the advice.