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Infertility

Our Infertility Support forum is a space to connect with others in the same position, discuss causes, treatment and IVF, and share infertility stories of hope and success.

Talk to me if you've decided to stop trying

177 replies

BipBippadotta · 21/03/2016 14:19

Hello. I think I have to stop trying to have a baby or I will ruin the rest of my life. Can someone give me some advice or a handhold or something about how to do this?

I am currently waiting to miscarry for the 3rd time in under a year - this after the full-term stillbirth of my daughter 18 months ago due to a ruptured umbilical cord. I'm 39.

My life has ground to a halt. I don't want to keep tearing myself apart trying to have a baby, particularly as it becomes exponentially less and less likely to work out with every month that passes.

I do not want to use donor eggs / sperm. I don't want to adopt (obligatory explanation here: I don't think after so many traumatic losses my DH and I are robust enough to take on a child who's already had a very tough start in life, possibly with obligations to maintain contact with their family of origin. Nor could I bear trying to adopt internationally, waiting interminably, etc. I think any of these things, at the moment, could destroy our sanity and/or our marriage, and those are the only two things I have left at the moment).

Since my daughter's death I have been so focused on having another baby that I don't know how to turn things back around. I have grieved for my daughter - I have grieved like you wouldn't believe - but there has simply not been the time to sit back and come to terms with it all like everyone says you should do before trying again. Given my age, I had to try again immediately or give up the possibility of children forever - and that's a fucking hard thing to do when you've just buried your only child.

I don't know how to keep going. I can't take any pleasure in anything. I can't face seeing my friends, as I don't have anything to say for myself anymore that anyone wants to hear. The only thing that has been giving me any sort of forward momentum is trying to have a baby - and I have to make myself understand that it is not going to work.

How do you know when to stop? And when you know, how do you stop? Do I have to hit rock bottom, and have a complete nervous breakdown, before I know for certain I can't do this anymore? Is there a way to stop trying before you go mad? How do I claw my way back to something that feels like life?

OP posts:
DailyMailDick · 01/05/2016 11:22

Thanks Bloody hell you have had a tough time. So sorry about your DD.
What does your DH say? What do you think he thinks? He sounds like a great guy, can you bow out of making a 'final' decision and let him decide or is that too passive. IYSWIM

BTW, your posts are just incrediblely well written. You make your points so clearly, I feel like I'm sitting next to you.

BipBippadotta · 02/05/2016 11:16

Aw, thanks, DailyMail. And DH is a great guy. He's pretty much as ambivalent as I am, in that sometimes it feels like a good idea to keep trying, sometimes it feels like it might break him in two to lose another baby (which is what keeping trying will almost inevitably entail). It changes from day to day & it's hard to get any sort of overall view.

Thanks for that info, Banana - I may contact Serum & see what they say. I should really have another go on fertilityfriends - but for some reason I just can't get on with the format of the forums there, I'm too lazy/impatient/cranky to put the time in to find the information or boards or threads that might be relevant. I think also at the mo I can't really handle detailed discussions of IVF, it just makes me want to shoot myself in the face. I would like to hand my ovaries over to some expert who will either make a healthy baby out of the contents or throw them in an incinerator. I don't even mind which.

Really sorry for your further erpc drama - not at all what you needed, after everything. Are you feeling OK now?

Saw some friends yesterday who live in a part of London where there are hardly any families. The couple in question are in their 40s, no kids - we haven't seen them in ages and for the first time in so long we felt a sense of social belonging, and that we had normal lives and weren't tragic freakish anomalies. We had nice freewheeling chats about all sorts of things. It was a lovely day, and gave us a sense that life could be good just the two of us, if we lived in a part of town that wasn't essentially an obstacle course of prams and pushchairs, and if we had just one or two people around us whose lives aren't organised around half term dates and bake sales and World Book Day. We came home determined to move, and that's at least given me a sense of some forward momentum. Have been looking at estate agents' websites all morning and feeling excited rather than trapped for the first time in ages.

OP posts:
BipBippadotta · 03/05/2016 14:10

Just had some emails with Serum who looked at the details of my IVF cycle & basically agreed with my clinic that my shitty eggs are the problem, as I've had so many miscarriages due to chromosome abnormalities. They said they were reluctant to do aoa / offer hgh as there's not enough data to suggest either is safe for the embryo plus it's unlikely to improve my chances.

Oh well. That's what I was after I guess - official advice to give up. Still a kick in the teeth though. I feel 100 years old. Looking on the bright side, now I can safely re-allocate a few £k to my post-fertility fantasy cosmetic surgery budget.

OP posts:
DailyMailDick · 03/05/2016 14:43

Sorry to hear that. Flowers Wine Cake Brew Chocolate

SesameSparkle · 03/05/2016 16:05

Bip, sorry about the serum dead end. I totally get the attraction of still looking for untried options. I read about hgh too as it's one of the treatments showing positive evidence in the set of ART Cochrane reviews. I got a very vocal and firm and vocal no from my fc at the time. There are literally only 2 fc's I know in the UK who use it, so it's a very marginal treatment indeed - the main argument from my fc being if it worked, everyone would be doing it. You could still throw your cash at one of these kitchen sink protocol places if you wanted to take a punt on a million dollar baby or a ten grand mc. But then I can definitely see the attraction of a move onto the dinky zone and pumping those £££ into your face rather than ovaries...... Flowers

By the way, earlier today I saw a women pushing a strangely compact pram. It was mature lady, so I thought it was probably toss up between a grandchild or de... So I had a gawp inside as she went past, only to find she was wheeling a little sausage dog.

BipBippadotta · 04/05/2016 10:30

I've seen the dog prams as well! Somewhere out there a little sausage dog is waiting to reap the benefit of my frustrated maternal instinct. Though he'll have to share it with about a thousand other animals. Official permanent childlessness will only enhance my standing in the mad cat/dog/bird/reptile lady community.

This very morning I brought an injured juvenile pigeon to the the vet. I found him being attacked by a crow last night, and DH and I took him home and fed him water with a syringe and tried to get him to eat some peas (apparently OK for little piegons) and made him a little snuggly nest in the shed with some towels and a heating pad underneath. He is now awaiting the attention of the specialist pigeon rescue lady. I love a happy ending.

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SesameSparkle · 04/05/2016 21:26

Aw Saint Bip and her menagerie... HaloGrin

icy121 · 08/05/2016 00:40

Bip delurking -sorry it's a dead end, but 100% agree to get out of nappy valley. We moved from Teddington 😱😱 to leafier home county where everyone in the road is about 103 (having bought their houses for £8k in 1946). Still push chair dodging but a different sort ;-)

Definitely move from feeling trapped. 100% on the animals. Horses are something I've always liked in principle; if IVF doesn't work for us then it will definitely be on the list (post dental work, nose job and dieting myself silly).

Your posts continue to be so well thought out & beautifully written. X

BipBippadotta · 09/05/2016 09:35

Thanks, Icy. Horses sound lovely. We had our shitty 2 bed terrace valued last week, and it turns out if we sold up we could buy a small ranch in Montana. Seriously thinking of trading in Paddy Power & chicken shops & unendurable smugness for thousands of acres of breathtaking wilderness, and bears.

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YorkshireTeaDrinker · 14/05/2016 09:22

Bip, just read the whole thread. Flowers for you (to plant in your garden in Montana). Your wit, resilliance and empathy are sprinkled all through your posts. And you describe the frustrations of living in infertility limbo, always striving for a future that might not be, so well.

I hope you do find the strength to stop the ride and get off. And start living for now.

I found this thread as I too am thinking of throwing in the towel after 5 years of secondary infertility. I am in the incredibly fortunate position of having a 5 yo DD. She took a while to conceive, so we left no gap between me finishing breastfeeding and TTC again. One miscarriage is all I have to show from 5 years of relentless cycle monitoring, temping, poas, timed shagging. I started giving baby clothes away after 2 years and last year started getting rid of bigger items. I also booked a skiing holiday (affordable with only one child). This last year we got right up to starting our first cycle of IVF (was due to start in March) when I decided to stop.

My follicle count is low, DHs count is variable and I am 40. Time to stop active TTC. We have had a couple of months of not shagging much at all. My fertile window has passed with out me trying to ensure DH (who can get performance anxiety if I tell him I'm ovulating) manages to deposit his seed in the (in)fertile ground. It is liberating.

It's not a clean break though. I know when I ovulate by all the secondary signs, so even if I successfully fight the urge to poas, I know when I am ovulating. We shagged this week and I know it was optimal timing, so I will probably be mildly hopeful again in a fortnight. But, even if it might be difficult to switch off the random hope that we could be one of the lucky ones who got miraculously up-duffed as soon the bugaboo goes on eBay, I have made the decision not to chuck £££s after an increasingly forlorn hope. And I am ok with that.

Your journey is massively more complex than mine. But it sounds like you are working your way, slowly, no doubt with plenty of tears and indecision and final chances, to a more peaceful place. I wish you joy and peace and blessings aplenty. Flowers Cake Wine Brew

WootyWoo · 15/05/2016 19:44

Hey Bip, I was really surprised and sad at the outcome of your chat with Serum. Very consciously - even though I think you have a lot to work with - I didn't want to encourage you to have any treatment previously, mostly due to the thread title. You want to explore the option of not having children and see how that feels. You don't want some die-hard telling you to give it another go.

Then you were being lured by the ivf calling and what with my thoughts on fertilisation issues I couldn't help but weigh in. I feel a bit shit now though in light of your response from Serum. I don't want to dangle hope when it's not pertinent to your situation. Their understanding of your situation makes sense I suppose. On a natural monthly basis you do get pregnant regularly so it would seem fertilisation is not an issue for you. It just looks poor to me (egg envy) when you have so many eggs on an ivf cycle and so few fertilise. It seems unusual but what does dr wooty know

Thank you for totally getting my broken cervix thing. Exactly my thoughts. What the f else can this infertility rob from me? A decade? Here take it. My self esteem? Help yourself. My orgasms???? Pfff as if keeping a normal sex life through this shit wasn't hard enough. Thanks. My orgasms?? Cheers universe.

I'm still deciding whether to go to my lovely male doctor about it (who's a bit yummie in a geeky/ brainy/ frightfully posh way) and embarrass the pants off myself .

Off to bury head in sand again x

BipBippadotta · 16/05/2016 10:11

Hello Yorkshire - it's amazing how long you can spend in limbo. And I sometimes think that secondary infertility makes it a different sort of difficult to give up trying, because you keep thinking 'but it DID work before!' I know what you mean about it not being a clean break. I still have ovulation sticks, but used my last internet cheapie hpts last month, so will at least not have the soul-killing couple of days of squinting at negative tests this month, and that does feel like a massive release.

One happy discovery I've made recently is that some of my old fertility supplements are brilliant for preventing hangovers. Take some milk thistle, starflower oil, and NAC before a night out and you'll be right as rain the next morning - no headache, no hangover anxiety, no quivery stomach, nothing. I feel slight regret when I think how much better the past 5 years would have been had I spent them drinking heavily with no remorse rather than joylessly swallowing wheatgrass shots and hating myself. Hey ho, I guess I've got the rest of my life to make up for lost time, and given that nobody will need me to live very long anyway there's nothing to stop me going at it like Lemmy from Motorhead.

Wooty don't worry at all about being a 'die-hard' telling me to give it another go - it absolutely makes sense to look into everything. And to be fair Serum probably weren't quite as apocalyptic in their prognosis as I heard them to be. They did say that chromosome abnormalities can also be caused by high dna fragmentation in sperm (we haven't had DH tested for this - didn't seem much point as there's not much you can do about it), and that antioxidants + antibiotics for 40 days might help a bit, but equally might not. Mainly they thought the fact that it took 2 years to conceive dd back when I was a sprightly under-35-year-old didn't bode well for the state of my eggs now. I'm glad I contacted them at any rate, so please don't feel shit.

I think the bottom line is we've had such a bad run of luck and so much trauma that I can't see how even a 'successful' pregnancy wouldn't just end up producing a child with 7 heads. Every month I persist in trying, it feels like I'm tempting fate to smite us with a catastrophic disaster that would destroy everything in our lives that is still good. It's just so exhausting that this level of fear coexists with such an overwhelming desire to hold my own living child, and to have that chaos and surprise you describe of having another little person in my life.

I feel for you in the position you're in at the moment - it's such a hard decision to try with DE when you've still got that hope that it just might work with your own eggs. It's so hard to come to the level of acceptance that takes, particularly when your self esteem has become entangled with all the fertility stuff so it feels like an admission of failure. That's how it feels for me anyway.

Sometimes I see threads in the general parts of Mumsnet, outside the barren ghetto, by posters who are in awful situations, i.e. both parents have profoundly disabling chronic health conditions that make them super-morbidly obese and incapacitated by depression so that they struggle to look after their 3 children under the age of 5, etc. And I've become so fucking self-absorbed that one of the first things I think is, how is it that despite having so many things seriously wrong with both of your bodies, you've had no trouble at all having babies? What is it that is so fundamentally broken about DH and me that even though we are ostensibly fit & healthy we can't manage what comes easily to people who can barely get out of bed for pain and fatigue and mental illness? (And how do these people have the energy to have enough sex to have so many children?) The only thing I can conclude from this sort of thing is that there can be a staggering amount wrong with your body without it compromising your fertility. So all the advice they give infertile women about the importance of regular exercise and stress-reducing meditation and no alcohol or caffeine and a perfect balanced diet is bollocks - it's just an opportunistic attempt to push a general public health agenda to the segment of the population most desperate for advice and most likely to listen. It doesn't have any particular effect on fertility at all, just keeps you marginally healthier and full of self-loathing for the 10 miserable years before you finally give up trying. Ooh so bitter.

Can't believe the cheek of that RSPCA man, Wooty! I tried to volunteer with a bird rescue centre the other day after my adventure with the pigeon - but it was clear it would just be a world of pain I didn't need right now. The lady at the charity said I'd be rung up once or twice a day to go and rescue injured birds from fences and people's lofts. It would be just my luck to end up unwittingly summoned to the house of one of the awful couples from my antenatal classes. I can see it now, me climbing down out of their chimney like some Victorian urchin, covered in pigeon shit and holding a screaming bleeding flapping pigeon while they sit smugly on their sofa playing with their adorable toddler and feeding their newborn twins & ask me curtly please not to get soot on their rubber playmat. Sadly I think the pigeons will have to wait until I'm retired.

Oh please do ask your dishy doc about your orgasms - I can see it now: 'Doctor, doctor, I'm having terrible trouble with my orgasms... please can you help me?' 'I'd be happy to. Why don't you lie back on the examining table and I'll see what I can do...' Wink

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BipBippadotta · 18/05/2016 13:37

Big step today: we're selling our house & suddenly it's become very real that total strangers will be traipsing through and peering at all our things. So I decided it was time to get rid of all the fucking useless books on my bookshelf by self-proclaimed nutritionist-cum-holistic-Reiki-master fertility experts about how to get pregnant. I briefly thought about offering them to other barrens, and then I thought, why? So they can delude themselves that any of this might work? No, I will not be complicit in anyone else stringing themselves along with spurious 'barren hag tried this one simple trick and had octuplets! IVF clinics hate her!' bullshit.

So I chucked them all in the recycling. Then I thought, fuck it, let's be honest, I'm never going to need these baby name books from when I was pregnant with my daughter. So out they went too. And then I was on a roll & threw out all my maternity clothes, all the pregnancy / parenting / baby sleep books people gave me when I was pregnant, my copy of The Very Hungry Caterpillar, etc. A little Halloween onesie I'd had all ready for her for when she was born. Next stop is purging the loft of the cot, the car seat, the bottle steriliser. The little onesies and socks. The blankets. The muslins. The moses basket.

Held it together while the estate agent came round and told us we could sell our house for 800 billion pounds to smug young families from Stoke Newington with more money than sense, and then listened to him talk about how it was such a good neighbourhood for children, and his wife is having a baby in 4 weeks, yadda yadda, and then he left and I burst into tears. And then my period started. First official period of the Given Up era.

Kind of want to slit my wrists at the moment. But if previous experience is anything to go by this will pass and I'll go back to the dull indifferent flatness within an hour or so.

OP posts:
WootyWoo · 18/05/2016 14:10

Oh Bip Sad I was just re-reading your great post from the other day and wondering when I was going to have the time to respond and saw this post pop up Sad.

What an enormous amount of emotion to deal with in such a short space of time. Even just to part with the books is a big deal in my mind, never mind the more personal items. Thinking of the Halloween onesie is making me cry. You are so brave to be facing it head on.

What shit shit timing with estate agent wittering on about expecting. I mean really universe! A bit of fucking heart please!

Huge hug, must dash back to work. Nothing will fix it but duvet and box set is my go to emotional avoidance place plus a huge glass of good wine if you're really thinking 'fuck it'. X

monkeytree · 18/05/2016 14:25

BIp.
Hang in there. What you have just done is massive, it's a massive shift and bound to make everything resurface - all the what should have beens......I feel so sad...I threw away brand new baby stuff I had bought for late ds plus any maternity clothes I wore over the bump. It's so, so painful. Can your ds/dp help you purge the loft or even better purge the loft for you. Yes it's typical that the estate agents wife is due to have a baby! I backed into a stationary car around the anniversary I lost ds with all that on my mind...and yes...the blokes van whom I dented, his wife had just given birth to a baby boy!! It's like rubbing salt into the wound. Hopefully in a few months time when you get out of that neighbourhood things will seem lighter. I know what you mean about the books, I hate the way that some people take advantage of ladies (and some men) when they are feeling desperate and vulnerable...your last post about people becoming pregnant with all manner of health conditions etc. rang a bell with me, I know a couple just like this who couldn't work for health/mental health reasons but went on to have 5 children whom they don't independently support (but that is another debate). Hopefully some more lovely ladies will come along soon to give you some moral support X

BipBippadotta · 18/05/2016 15:02

Thanks so much for being so lovely. I think a lot about what to do with the baby stuff in the loft and I think I'll see if a refugee charity can come collect it. It makes me feel a bit better to think that someone really desperate can make use of it rather than some god-awful twatty hipster couple at an NCT jumble sale.

DH is working from home today and went & got us a box of chocolate ginger biscuits which we ate in the space of about 3 minutes, under the duvet, with the cats. Wine on the agenda tonight, for sure. I'm going to pickle my pointless fucking ovaries once and for all. Bottoms up!

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icy121 · 18/05/2016 20:25

Bip I asked on the other thread about the move - getting out of hipster sodding smugsville sounds like the best option. Everyone is fucking pregnant, or new parents - quelle surprise your twat estate agent's wife had had a kid. Negotiate hard in his fees, the cunt.

Well done purging the house of books and shit, it must've been hard but also slightly cathartic?

I think the nspcc would take all your loft kit, having done a brief Google. You're right the local smug hipsters can fuck off to mothercare.

Are you going to move out of London?

kiwiblue · 18/05/2016 21:41

bip yay for your lovely DH and the biscuits. Hope you downed some wine.

Flowers to you. You've been through an unbelievably tough time so don't be too hard on yourself. All I say is try to do the things that make you happy day by day - wine, splurgy dinner with DH, box sets - whatever it is. Try to book in some things to look forward to, it helps me. Sorry if this wasn't very helpful, but I just wanted to say you're an admirable person, and I'm thinking of you. Wine Flowers

BipBippadotta · 19/05/2016 07:50

We will ultimately move out of London I think, but for the moment we're just hoping to move south of the river to a neighbourhood that's not so blighted by bunting. We sat in a pub there the other day and nearly wept with joy that most of the other customers were men in suits, enjoying a solitary pint and the cryptic crossword before going home after a day in the office. There was no children's menu, no enormous stack of child seats by the door. The only trace of tweeness I spotted was when a tramp wandered in with an Orla Kiely carrier bag.

We're off to Bristol for the bank holiday weekend - that's somewhere we think about a lot as a post-London place to live. Just about enough work there for DH, I can work pretty flexibly anywhere, we know people there and it's not too far to get back to London to see mates.

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monkeytree · 19/05/2016 14:17

Hi BIp

I've met a number of couples who have had children and then moved out of Bristol this way - Gloucestershire, so definitely worth considering especially if you already know people there x

MrsPickwick · 19/05/2016 14:48

I've been following this thread for a while now and just wanted to say this: you're my fucking hero, Bip. You're also a ridiculously gifted writer.

There, I said it.

icy121 · 19/05/2016 15:11

Bristol makes the Telegraph's top 20 places in the UK to raise a family. Cursory googling has identified Manchester and Leeds as particularly rubbish for kids (hurrah!)

I work in property and look after some assets in Manchester, there is a lot of talk of 'Northshoring' (LOL @ Agent's drivel) so depending on what you DH does there may be jobs aplenty there too. Not sure how much your London home is worth, but if you can get to £1.3m this is the kind of amazing City Centre space that's available! Looks deliciously family UNfriendly too www.zoopla.co.uk/for-sale/details/37896227?search_identifier=ef8638c1aa41518f58052cada83524c9#Pt8pZ0TfejvKxRT3.97 If HS2 ever happens you'll be away, but it's less than 3 hours into Paddington anyway, so not a disaster.

Don't know why I'm cheerleading for Machester, it always bloody rains... just an option!!

PotatoesPastaAndBread · 19/05/2016 18:37

Can we turn this into a house hunting thread for you bip ? I could joyfully spend HOURS on Rightmove looking at property porn. Better than giggling ivf factoids.

PotatoesPastaAndBread · 19/05/2016 18:37

*googling

Ivf factoids are definitely not funny

Darrelrivers · 19/05/2016 19:56

Hi just found your thread. Sounds like you have all been through So much. Been struggling secondary infertility. I am so fortunate to have DS (who conceived by accident -go figure). I decided I couldn't keep living my life in 2week increments any more focusing 100% on something that probably won't happen. Just Given SIL all our baby stuff as just had her first (after 11 years of ttc). At least DS now has a cousin. I think you know when to stop it is all so draining and it has made me Ill. But like you after ttc know every sign of fertile time so stop me hoping!